laika
Well-known member
shhh...You don't what V05 posting about how he was right all along that the sealord was the better option
New tax for foreign yachts based in Greece from 1st January 2014????
- Thread starter Chatelaine60
- Start date
shhh...You don't what V05 posting about how he was right all along that the sealord was the better option
Chris_Robb
Well-known member
Jim, from my point of view its now time to wait and see - having made representations to the Marina. Leros came back to me following my second email (having said it was all rubbish) and said that the Marina Association and the tourist industry had been fighting it tooth and nail and they were all hoping it would not make it to Law. They also said that it has still not passed into law and is still just a proposal - maybe PLEIAS could comment on that.
Chris_Robb
Well-known member
Sealord? Not in the same bracket!:black_eyed:
PLEIAS
New member
Regretably as i have allready reported the law was passed yesterday affective at the time it will be published in the parliament's gazette.Many points are still not clear like the means or formula of payment, or how it will be affecting boats on the hard, or short time visitors from neighbouring countries, eg boats from Turkey Italy Cyprus and especially in small islands where there's no Tax offices or PP stations.Also i'm wondering about the paragraph describing small boats and thus separating motor boats and sailing boats with different standards.Such a description is contradicting the main charges paragraph as there it makes no distinction.I believe that much remains to be seen and decided and i cannot see for the life of me how they will determine all that in 30-odd days.Again it is very hard to conradict such a measure in a country where official unemployment is 27% (1.5 million) and 350.000 houses are cut off from electricity.A boat, even on a small island where it is your only means of transportation, is, still, a luxury for the rest of the population.
Chris_Robb
Well-known member
It seems odd that they will allow a boat sitting on hard standing will not pay the same as boat sitting unused in a Marina. It is after all a form of wealth tax. For those who keep their boats afloat for the year, but to be used for only 2 months of it the €900 charge (12 meters) would cost us effectively €100 for each week we are sailing. Thats one hell of a tax.
I will have to assess a different way of running the boat - pulling out for the months we don't use her - the winter and July and August.
So we wait and see before I place any mooring contract.
Bertramdriver
Active member
.A boat, even on a small island where it is your only means of transportation, is, still, a luxury for the rest of the population.[/QUOTE]
I think we all appreciate the sentiment but we (foreign based boat owners) are not the problem, however, we like the average Greek working man will have to carry the tax burden. The problem is the inability of the habitually cynical Greek ruling classes to wake up and start making a contribution to their own country. So once again we see politics solving the wrong problem.
For interest I worked out that annually I spend 20% of my pension income in Greece, and that is all I can spare. If the authorities hit me with more costs then I'm out. Not because I'm being pissy but simply because I can't afford to stay.
I think we all appreciate the sentiment but we (foreign based boat owners) are not the problem, however, we like the average Greek working man will have to carry the tax burden. The problem is the inability of the habitually cynical Greek ruling classes to wake up and start making a contribution to their own country. So once again we see politics solving the wrong problem.
For interest I worked out that annually I spend 20% of my pension income in Greece, and that is all I can spare. If the authorities hit me with more costs then I'm out. Not because I'm being pissy but simply because I can't afford to stay.
nimbusgb
Active member
Sounds like the haul out type yards will be even fuller next year!
Hopefully I can pay only for time in the water otherwise next year will eat into the royal mail windfall more than I expected!
Hopefully I can pay only for time in the water otherwise next year will eat into the royal mail windfall more than I expected!
PLEIAS
New member
I think we all appreciate the sentiment but we (foreign based boat owners) are not the problem, however, we like the average Greek working man will have to carry the tax burden. The problem is the inability of the habitually cynical Greek ruling classes to wake up and start making a contribution to their own country. So once again we see politics solving the wrong problem.
For interest I worked out that annually I spend 20% of my pension income in Greece, and that is all I can spare. If the authorities hit me with more costs then I'm out. Not because I'm being pissy but simply because I can't afford to stay.[/QUOTE]
I decided to quote you back.In wich country exactly the cynical ruling class ever gave a damn?Or when and where did the polititians ever solved the right problem?I will be sorry to see you leave but at the very least you can do so.I am deeply sorry that you cannot afford to stay on your current pension.I for one dont think i am ever getting one.My boat does not run on baby seals blood or orphan's tears, it runs on diesel for which i pay.But still i cannot even begin to understand how these people must feel Sentiment? Yes you can call it so.Hopefully for my shake i won't join them any time soon but then again WHO knows?
Don't misunderstand me i sympathise with all of you and the only reason for my previous post was that i was asked to comment.I am trying to be as impartial as i can under the circumstanses and most of the time unless i cannot do otherwise i try to see the General Picture and reporting my views to Jim so he can phrase them better than i will and won't get carried away as i often do. That's all folks and i'm sorry beforehand if i've offented anyone.
Steve C Cronin
N/A
?..and I have to tell you, that no such undertaking has been received, and that therefore this country IS, at WAR with Greece!
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jaba
Member
This post is mainly to sympathize with Pleias and his fellow countrymen. I am too, as an Italian, pretty sure that I will never receive a pension... For which I dearly pay btw.
Secondly, regarding the boat tax matter, this sort of levy has proved to be ineffectual, very costly to implement, and damaging to the economy in my country: so much that it has been cancelled after only one year. They are even giving back the money to whom paid it. On the other hand there are countries, like Croatia, where such a tax is still levvied after many years... So I can't predict the outcome in Greece. And, last but not least, I sympathize with the Brits liveaboard who are compelled to reconsider their stay in Greece because of the tax (even if some of them are the same people who very vocally complain in this forum for the seasonal presence of us Italians in Greece). As for me, next summer I will be down there, even if it implies paying a tax and sailing 700 miles.
Best
J
Secondly, regarding the boat tax matter, this sort of levy has proved to be ineffectual, very costly to implement, and damaging to the economy in my country: so much that it has been cancelled after only one year. They are even giving back the money to whom paid it. On the other hand there are countries, like Croatia, where such a tax is still levvied after many years... So I can't predict the outcome in Greece. And, last but not least, I sympathize with the Brits liveaboard who are compelled to reconsider their stay in Greece because of the tax (even if some of them are the same people who very vocally complain in this forum for the seasonal presence of us Italians in Greece). As for me, next summer I will be down there, even if it implies paying a tax and sailing 700 miles.
Best
J
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Norman_E
Well-known member
Sailing through?
Given the size of the tax, and the fact that I usually only spent a few days at a time in Greece, it looks as if I won't be going there again until I have to.
Just a thought, what if you are sailing from one Turkish bay to another, but have to pass through a channel between Turkey and one of the Greek Islands. Will you have to keep on the Turkish side of the channel or risk being taxed for sailing through Greek waters?
Given the size of the tax, and the fact that I usually only spent a few days at a time in Greece, it looks as if I won't be going there again until I have to.
Just a thought, what if you are sailing from one Turkish bay to another, but have to pass through a channel between Turkey and one of the Greek Islands. Will you have to keep on the Turkish side of the channel or risk being taxed for sailing through Greek waters?
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Steve C Cronin
N/A
I WILL contradict it by saying that no matter how poor you are, someone else's money is HIS money and not YOUR money. Stealing is no way to get yourself out of difficulty, especially a difficulty of your or your compatriot's making.
Nostrodamus
New member
Can anyone tell me what the RYA have said or done about this tax?
rivonia
Active member
nimbusgb
Active member
No mention of it on their website
jordanbasset
Well-known member
It will be interesting to see if this has any impact on the many 'dead' yachts cluttering up some harbours and 'marinas'.(in the broadest sense)
Marsupial
New member
It would be nice to think so, so you can get value for money cruising because you paid the tax. Sadly I think this is an over optimistic view. The law is written in tortured language, as others have said its difficult to translate. I bet there will be a pathway through this convoluted act which means that only foreigners pay the tax. WE will see. The Italians tried a similar tactic a few years back and that didn't end well in as much as they didn't collect on the tax. Time will tell.
grafozz
Member
PLEIAS ,
Thank you ,
from one of the sailors of Greece , for your invaluable input ,
please continue .
I am sure I can speak for many other forum readers who watch these discussions with great interest .
We are fortunate to hear from a "man on the spot "
keep it up !
Thank you ,
from one of the sailors of Greece , for your invaluable input ,
please continue .
I am sure I can speak for many other forum readers who watch these discussions with great interest .
We are fortunate to hear from a "man on the spot "
keep it up !
sailaboutvic
Well-known member
I am saddened for the people who have wintered there this year , not knowing about the tax and not having the option to leave before this tax come in .
I can tell you from talking to all the yacht here in licata who where on their way to Greece next year , so far everyone have said they will change their plains and go else where .
In my view for what it is worth the only sure way for this tax to be dumped is if a mass exit including charter yachts leave Greece , and I very do doubts that's going to happen and how long will it be before the 400 for 12 mts yachts became 500 or 600
The worry here is what country is next to jump on the band wagon .
I can tell you from talking to all the yacht here in licata who where on their way to Greece next year , so far everyone have said they will change their plains and go else where .
In my view for what it is worth the only sure way for this tax to be dumped is if a mass exit including charter yachts leave Greece , and I very do doubts that's going to happen and how long will it be before the 400 for 12 mts yachts became 500 or 600
The worry here is what country is next to jump on the band wagon .
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Nostrodamus
New member
Like you Vic we were planning to visit Greece next year but are now talking about holding off until the picture is clearer. There are a lot of live aboards here (Ragusa) planning on doing the same and would like to know if there is anyone they can object to.
Has anyone got any idea of the best people to send letters of objection too?
Has anyone got any idea of the best people to send letters of objection too?