Tranona
Well-known member
Please can you explain how that might happen?
New tax for foreign yachts based in Greece from 1st January 2014????
- Thread starter Chatelaine60
- Start date
Please can you explain how that might happen?
Tony Cross
Well-known member
This is only likely to happen to EU citizens cruising in an EU flagged boat that is not VAT paid. That makes you a tax avoider and you deserve to get caught IMO.
I'm also intrigued as to how they will apply the "if you spend a year in Greece" test because it's impossible to prove a negative, so unless you have a 12-month marina contract it will be impossible to prove that you never left Greece.
Tony Cross
Well-known member
I've just been chatting to some people here about how we could prove a 12-month stay in Greece. They suggest asking for and keeping a receipt for every purchase made and for every cash withdrawal from ATMs. Whilst not definitive proof they would go a long way to showing that you'd spent the whole year in Greece.
It's also a good reason for asking for your receipt here too.
It's also a good reason for asking for your receipt here too.
BurnitBlue
Well-known member
No idea. however, my marina has a notice on the board telling folk that the maximum time they will allow a car to be "stored" is six month before Customs are informed.
Yes I know a car is different BUT both are taxable assets.
Anyway my post was a tongue in cheek attempt to remind folk that tax laws are passed so that THEY can get at YOU. Not so that YOU can get at THEM. (Old military aphorism about rules and regs).
PLEIAS
New member
Under the law if you stay 12 months then you'll be obliged to file revenue forms but that goes only for individuals.The way i see it the only proof you can provide is to show a receipt for home-port fees.That is you pay for a year in advance to your local port-fund till the end of february each year.That gives you certain privileges and rate deductions such as not having to pay for every time you sail in the daily rates and establishes that you have a permanent port.BUT wait for the directions if and when they come - till then, the answer my friend is blowin in the wind...And as for the post about the marina and cars it goes to say how much freedom foreigners are enjoying in Greece.I sincerely doubt if something like that could happen in any other country - not to mention how legal are these cars regarding MOTs and insurance.Especially from the N.European country where humor is forbidden by law (GERMANIA)
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Tranona
Well-known member
That is an EU wide rule that applies to cars where you are allowed 6 months usage in another state before you have comply with local circulation tax requirements. No such rules currently apply to boats, mainly because there are no circulation taxes. However the proposed new tax does have the characteristics of a circulation tax and will be payable by all.
Difficulty they will have as already mentioned is enforcing it on movable assets that in many cases have no formal legal existence. They will have more luck with Greek registered boats as registration is compulsory but difficult with non Greek boats. However, despite what the wingers on here seem to think it is not aimed directly at liveaboard, or at visitors, but to be legal within the EU it must apply to everyone.
vyv_cox
Well-known member
When we moved to Holland we had to re-register our car after six months. Later we brought it back to UK and again were given six months to re-register.
Carmel2
New member
Its the same in France.
jimbaerselman
New member
The EU regs did not require re-registration, but they did say that the visited country was entitled to levy any charges and impose any requirements that locals suffer (insurance, circulation fees etc). The reason for not requiring re-registration was to permit people who who intended to return to their original country to avoid the cost and bureaucracy of re-registering.
Incidentally, these EU framework rules, which may or may not be integrated correctly into local law by individual countries, cover all MoT (means of transport). Planes, boats, cars, caravans . . .
I think they also specify a continuous period of 180 days for MoT
For people, of course, it's different. Tax residence may kick in if you spend more than a cumulative period 182 days per 365 in another country, or if you conduct a business or earn there.
Lots of countries introduce these ideas with quirks to create local privileges - leading to local court cases being appealed to EU courts of justice.
PLEIAS
New member
The law was passed yesterday as it was.Good luck to you all and fairwinds for those who will choose to leave.
Bertramdriver
Active member
Hi I see that the Greek circulation tax law has just been enacted. Is there any definitive statement from someone who is informed as to what this law entails or how it may be modified. I have a 12.95 metre motorboat based in Greece and as I'm on a (pathetic) pension this tax may be the one one that breaks our desire to remain there. My nightmare is to arrive in April and be presented with a massive bill.
jimbaerselman
New member
I'm working on this for the Cruising Association. I have a "just adequate" translation of the law as agreed. From this we've published what we can on http://www.cruising.org.uk/home - top news item. You should be able to work out the implications for your own case from this.
The biggest bill you would face would be €910 pa if you choose to remain in Greek waters. Depending on the interpretation of one phrase, this may be a little less. But there are many options for reducing the amount; pay only for one month, and leave Greek waters (€130), pay monthly, but only when your're in the water (depends on when their months start and end!)
When we have a better translation we'll enlarge on this. It won't actually be law until it is published in the gazette, but there is not likely to be much delay, nor change.
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grumpygit
Well-known member
As like us, you will be going back in the water around the same time. By then we will all know if it's EU legal and how it will work for us all, not just the minus side but any plus benefits. If it is EU legal, how long before other EU member states adopt the same/similar regime, so is moving on the answer?
For us with the present information we will have to find circa €5 a day extra from our budget. Not impossible but it will have to come from what we would otherwise spend ashore with the Greeks, bum deal all round . . . .
Steve C Cronin
N/A
Personally, I can't see what is different about the current posting on the CA site (http://www.cruising.org.uk/node/22634) from what we already knew.
Interesting to see what will happen when the Italians arrive* in August. (*Or WILL they?)
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Tranona
Well-known member
Looks like both you and our Greek friends will be relieved when you leave their country then!
grumpygit
Well-known member
Strewth man, what's all this chelping about the Greeks. It's not the people but the politicians and tax makers who make the laws.
So to ask you the question. Why the hell did you ever come to Greece and why are you still here?
jordanbasset
Well-known member
From what I can see the Greeks have to pay this in the same way as every one else
Marsupial
New member
The Greeks will pay the day Nelson gets his eye back! Foreigners will pay on the nail. Never has it been different.
Chris_Robb
Well-known member
Not quite. There is a provision for motor boats under 12 meters to pay nothing at all. That covers most of the local boats - fishing and pleasure that fill up the harbours. Perhaps time to cut 3 inches off the sugar scoop, and take the mast down......:biggrin-new:
jimbaerselman
New member
Not sure about that Chris. There are quirks of ifs or buts in the translation, and there is an anomaly between two paragraphs of the law (as I've translated it - ooops!) which has to be to be explained.