New tax for foreign yachts based in Greece from 1st January 2014????

[vyv_cox]

All I will say is my experiance of this differs from yours.

+1 Everywhere we have been this year, throughout the northern Aegean, shopkeepers and taverna proprietors have insisted that we take receipts.

 

[Nostrodamus]

But is it a case of one receipt for the customer and a different one for the tax man?

 

[Chris_Robb]

+1 Everywhere we have been this year, throughout the northern Aegean, shopkeepers and taverna proprietors have insisted that we take receipts.

We found a very similar thing to you in the Aegian, but the previous year in the Ionian, we hardly ever had a receipt given to us. In fact, one taverna (who shall remain nameless) said that because they now had to pay a large opening deposit each year to the tax man, he was no longer giving out receipts as they were just being milked - he was particularly angry at the massive government payroll - why should he pay taxes to support the unsupportable?

Maybe the Ionian Islands are much more independant of Greece as they were really only a relatively recent joiner......

 

[Nostrodamus]

Just to clarify the original post a little.
The tax of 400 euros applies to a 39 ft boat.
You then pay 400 euros plus 100 euros of every meter over 39 ft. not 100 euros for every meter if you are over 39ft

 

[vyv_cox]

But is it a case of one receipt for the customer and a different one for the tax man?

As written previously by several of us, tills in all businesses had to be replaced by ones that connect directly to government taxation authorities. Some very small businesses suffered badly as the cost, €600, was their total income for the year.

 

[Nostrodamus]

As written previously by several of us, tills in all businesses had to be replaced by ones that connect directly to government taxation authorities. Some very small businesses suffered badly as the cost, €600, was their total income for the year.

But surely it is quiet easy to put one thing in the till and write another receipt to the customer?

I don't know, I have not been there under the new regime but those who have say it often happened and there is and always will be the .... there are two prices.. one with a receipt and one without one which is a lot cheaper. We have also had the same offer to us from businesses in Spain and Italy. Of course we always wanted to pay the higher price so we could get a receipt...

 

[NornaBiron]

Just to clarify the original post a little.
The tax of 400 euros applies to a 39 ft boat.
You then pay 400 euros plus 100 euros of every meter over 39 ft. not 100 euros for every meter if you are over 39ft

That is still unknown. The wording is sufficiently confusing as to make it not possible, at this time, to say whether that is the case or if boats over 12m will pay €100 per metre.

 

[NornaBiron]

But surely it is quiet easy to put one thing in the till and write another receipt to the customer?

I don't know, I have not been there under the new regime but those who have say it often happened and there is and always will be the .... there are two prices.. one with a receipt and one without one which is a lot cheaper. We have also had the same offer to us from businesses in Spain and Italy. Of course we always wanted to pay the higher price so we could get a receipt...

In my experience this has changed this year in Greece. We have only received printed till receipts, there have been no hand written receipts in shops, tavernas or bars anywhere we have been this year.

 

[Tony Cross]

Just to clarify the original post a little.
The tax of 400 euros applies to a 39 ft boat.
You then pay 400 euros plus 100 euros of every meter over 39 ft. not 100 euros for every meter if you are over 39ft

Sadly the CA's helpful Greek contact (he's an accountant apparently) is quite sure that there is a deliberate step change above 12m. His interpretation of the Greek wording of the draft law is that yachts over 12m will pay €100 per metre per year.

This is only a draft law though and I'm quite sure a lot of horse-trading will take place before it's law.

 

[Steve C Cronin]

Sadly the CA's helpful Greek contact (he's an accountant apparently) is quite sure that there is a deliberate step change above 12m. His interpretation of the Greek wording of the draft law is that yachts over 12m will pay €100 per metre per year.

This is only a draft law though and I'm quite sure a lot of horse-trading will take place before it's law.

Let us hope so. There doesn't seem to be the same slant on this one as there was on the last attempt that it is a measure designed to catch Greek tax avoiders. This one is openly aimed at fleecing all boat owners including their much needed foreign guests.

Not much TCF in Greece is there?

 

[Nostrodamus]

Sadly the CA's helpful Greek contact (he's an accountant apparently) is quite sure that there is a deliberate step change above 12m. His interpretation of the Greek wording of the draft law is that yachts over 12m will pay €100 per metre per year.

This is only a draft law though and I'm quite sure a lot of horse-trading will take place before it's law.

seems a bit exessive... 12m 400 euros.. 12.5m 1250!!!!

 

[Nostrodamus]

Sadly the CA's helpful Greek contact (he's an accountant apparently) is quite sure that there is a deliberate step change above 12m. His interpretation of the Greek wording of the draft law is that yachts over 12m will pay €100 per metre per year.

This is only a draft law though and I'm quite sure a lot of horse-trading will take place before it's law.

seems a bit exessive... 12m 400 euros.. 12.5m 1250!!!!

 

[NornaBiron]

seems a bit exessive... 12m 400 euros.. 12.5m 1250!!!!

That would be €1300, they won't give change for part metres.

 

[Chris_Robb]

That would be €1300, they won't give change for part metres.

Looks like a new ssr required. We are 12.1 meters!

 

[Tony Cross]

Let us hope so. There doesn't seem to be the same slant on this one as there was on the last attempt that it is a measure designed to catch Greek tax avoiders. This one is openly aimed at fleecing all boat owners including their much needed foreign guests.

Not much TCF in Greece is there?

I think the law is double-edged Steve. It's primary aim is to ensure that all Greek boat owners pay a tax on their boats. Since many are registered abroad, and even nominally owned abroad, an all-encompassing tax is the only way to be sure to catch them in the net. The secondary aim of course is to raise revenue, the CA understands that this measure is designed to raise €20million a year.

I do think though, and not only because I have a 13.7m yacht, that a step change at 15m, perhaps with a higher multiple than €100, might be more acceptable and yet bring in the same revenue. Such a step change would target the owners (mostly Greek)of the very large boats whilst the vast majority of visiting yachts would pay a more reasonable tax.

I don't have a problem paying a yearly circulation tax, €500 would be reasonable but €1400 is not.

 

[ccscott49]

Well I'm in deep poo poo, we are 17 meters! on our SSR.
I cant afford an extra 1700 euros a year for Greece, on top of my already substantial mooring charges, might as well come back to UK I can find moorings cheaper than that even on the south coast! That's outrageous. Just to bail out a bunch of tax dodgers!
So if it does come in, that's one who will be leaving.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Answer from LEROS marina

Has anyone else picked up this news from the ocean cruising club and the cruising association about a new tax coming in from 1st January?? According to the article it is going thro Greek parliament in the next couple of weeks. If it goes through there is going to be a lot of unhappy boatyards and marinas over there. Not to mention the Turkish groups who have taken over levkas, Corfu and a host of other Greek marinas. I will go back to my friend for the link she sent me.

The link is http://www.cruising.org.uk/node/22634

Dear Mr Robb,

Good afternoon from Leros Marina.

Regarding the issue from the CA site, we kindly inform you that this is a "ghost-law", nothing more than a rumor that comes out for the 3rd time during the last years, but it has not even ever been discussed in the parliament, and of course nothing has yet been voted.

I for one will be ignoring this, certainly for next season (2014) as their is no way it can become law in that time.

 

[Chris_Robb]

I think the law is double-edged Steve. It's primary aim is to ensure that all Greek boat owners pay a tax on their boats. Since many are registered abroad, and even nominally owned abroad, an all-encompassing tax is the only way to be sure to catch them in the net. The secondary aim of course is to raise revenue, the CA understands that this measure is designed to raise €20million a year.

I do think though, and not only because I have a 13.7m yacht, that a step change at 15m, perhaps with a higher multiple than €100, might be more acceptable and yet bring in the same revenue. Such a step change would target the owners (mostly Greek)of the very large boats whilst the vast majority of visiting yachts would pay a more reasonable tax.

I don't have a problem paying a yearly circulation tax, €500 would be reasonable but €1400 is not.

Tony - I agree that a €500 charge would not drive me away, but €1400 - I would think twice.

However, I think this is more about window dressing to the Troika, who are now looking at the next release of bailout funds to Greece. They have demanded cuts and also increased taxes before any hand over of new funds will occur. So they will vote for this, but it will - like others (closing EBT - it reopened 6 months later!) - never be implemented.

 

[Tony Cross]

Tony - I agree that a €500 charge would not drive me away, but €1400 - I would think twice.

However, I think this is more about window dressing to the Troika, who are now looking at the next release of bailout funds to Greece. They have demanded cuts and also increased taxes before any hand over of new funds will occur. So they will vote for this, but it will - like others (closing EBT - it reopened 6 months later!) - never be implemented.

I hope you're right. I also wonder whether the Greeks have deliberately leaked this proposal to see how much fuss it generates. Hopefully if the yachting community, yachting associations and the Greek marina and associated services industry make enough fuss they will think again about the 12m step change.

In any event I'm not going to fret about it until it's done and dusted. As you say Greece has a history of not implementing things.......

 

[jimbaerselman]

There are some nice twists to the law about over 12m boats that many of those who are posting may have missed.

1. For boats based in Greece, there's a 30% discount. €1,300 becomes €910

2. You only need a certificate of payment if you're sailing, moored or anchored in Greek waters. Ashore doesn't need a tax paid certificate.

3. There's an option to pay a month at a time. Thus, you can arrive, sail for a month, haul out paying only for a month. Then launch next year, and decide whether to go for a season discount, or three months, or a month and then move on elsewhere.

Not quite so black a picture . . .