New Benjenbav - spot the difference

[Baggywrinkle]

Why are people unable to appreciate things for what they are, rather than what they think they should be?

What is the point in looking at a thoroughbred and complaining that it can't plough a field as well as a clydesdale? An owner of a race horse doesn't want to plough fields with it.

Horses for courses - the First range has been keeping performance orientated sailors happy for decades, and I expect it will continue to do so.

To me it looks a bit conservative by modern standards, but I bet it will sail well.

I grew up sailing boats from the contessa era, and they were small, cramped, wet and sparse .... vinyl and condensation were my overwhelming memories, along with damp, grotty bilges that housed their own ecosystems - still loved sailing them though - but thank god for progress or I would never have got my family sailing.

Today we have multiple cabins, fridges, autopilots, roller reefing, anchor windlasses, swim platforms, showers, inverters, microwaves, and affordable 40 footers - messing around on boats is so much more civilised now than it was back then - a bit like moving from a tent to a motorhome - and more people than ever are sailing further than ever in the very boats that get derided by the old salts on this forum.

Be content with what you have, if you like sailing boats from the 70s/80s then I'm happy for you, ... there is no need to try and justify your choice by constructing imagined disaster scenarios from your armchairs for anything built in the 21st century. The statistics don't support the prophecies of doom, and the buying public, the charter companies and the sailing schools seem to be embracing modern boats without issue.

 

[Tranona]

...... and as I love to remind you, Yachting Monthly, the premier UK cruising magazine, gave what at the time was a design in its 4th decade, namely the CO32, a higher score than the latest MDF and plastic offering from Bavaria.

Really cannot understand why you keep on with this much discredited bit of puff - which of course has absolutely nothing to do with the new boat you originally posted about. THIS is the modern version of the cruiser racer that you beloved CO32 was in in the 1970s, just as my Bavaria is the modern equivalent of a boat like a Westerly Longbow. The only commonality between your boat and mine is that they are both roughly 10m in length. Other than that aimed at different markets in different times - and only YM would dream of making a direct comparison between them.

BTW NO MDF in my boat and the plastic (along with all the other materials) is in a different league of quality from that used to mould and construct your boat. Hardly surprising as the world has moved on since 1970. You really do not seem to have a clue about how modern boats are made.

 

[Skellum]

I think it looks quite nice. Beneteau don’t always get it right aesthetically (witness that generation of Oceanis yachts with that big white hoop over the cockpit) but the new ones look good. Apparently the hull is to be shared between the First and Oc ranges.

 

[Skylark]

I think it looks quite nice. Beneteau don’t always get it right aesthetically (witness that generation of Oceanis yachts with that big white hoop over the cockpit) but the new ones look good. Apparently the hull is to be shared between the First and Oc ranges.

Oops, like this ? ? ?

One of its functions is to house the cockpit lights. It compliments the table lamp and is perfect when entertaining as the light fades.

The new Beneteau featured looks nice and I'm sure it will be well received by its target market. I really enjoy threads such as this as they put a smile on my face for the whole day. Comments by the closet envious or those so blind that they can't see beyond their narrow prejudice. On the water, the vast majority of recreational sailors always wave and acknowledge each other. Do the closet envious sheepishly look away, pretending to be occupied so as to not make eye contact with an AWB owner as they pass by

 

[geem]

Why are people unable to appreciate things for what they are, rather than what they think they should be?

What is the point in looking at a thoroughbred and complaining that it can't plough a field as well as a clydesdale? An owner of a race horse doesn't want to plough fields with it.

Horses for courses - the First range has been keeping performance orientated sailors happy for decades, and I expect it will continue to do so.

To me it looks a bit conservative by modern standards, but I bet it will sail well.

I grew up sailing boats from the contessa era, and they were small, cramped, wet and sparse .... vinyl and condensation were my overwhelming memories, along with damp, grotty bilges that housed their own ecosystems - still loved sailing them though - but thank god for progress or I would never have got my family sailing.

Today we have multiple cabins, fridges, autopilots, roller reefing, anchor windlasses, swim platforms, showers, inverters, microwaves, and affordable 40 footers - messing around on boats is so much more civilised now than it was back then - a bit like moving from a tent to a motorhome - and more people than ever are sailing further than ever in the very boats that get derided by the old salts on this forum.

Be content with what you have, if you like sailing boats from the 70s/80s then I'm happy for you, ... there is no need to try and justify your choice by constructing imagined disaster scenarios from your armchairs for anything built in the 21st century. The statistics don't support the prophecies of doom, and the buying public, the charter companies and the sailing schools seem to be embracing modern boats without issue.

Not really a fair comparison is it? If you sailed a small cramped boat in the 70s/80s and now you sail a 40 footer how do you expect the small boat to compare on amenities? All that's happened is modern boats have got cheaper so you can but bigger. As you age you have more disposable income. All those amenities you describe have always been present on our 1980s cruiser it's just in the 80s you were sailing a cramped little boat and couldn't afford a 44 footer. Me to but now I can

 

[Skellum]

“One man’s whiskey is another man’s tea”
I expect the hoop makes for a useful point to attach a bimini cover as well.

 

[ashtead]

Not certain I understand what’s new about the one posted by the OP save it might be latest model -there is an open stern 35ish boat with the black bowsprit just down from us at Haslar and my recollection is a premium price is paid for such a design. It seems to go out most weekends so at least it’s sailed and enjoyed -not my idea of fun but clearly the Benetteau team know there is a market for such craft just like there is a market for Etchells or j boats. People even still buy Bavaria match 35 secondhand and First 40.7 notwithstanding the negative press and I guess those who buy the OP model find something in it which appeals but clearly not to centre cockpit Hallberg 40something owners .

 

[Supertramp]

The beauty of sailing is that you can make a lot of personal choices about what you buy, how you use it and what level of repair and maintenance you take on. And the choice of new and used boats feeds this diversity. All designs have plusses and minuses. I for one enjoy sailing on other people's boats and understanding their choices. Often it is the details of how they organise their boat and sail that are more interesting than the design. And the good practices you can copy. It will be a sad day if all manufacturers produce the same designs and our choice disappears.

 

[Supertramp]

Sorry ignore this - still mastering the system.

 

[Ingwe]

With a bit of luck I actually expect this new First model to be very different to anything else the big manufacturers have done before as it's the team from Seascape who have designed it who are all come from a Mini Transat background and think of "Cruising" in very different terms so I would not be at all surprised if this isn't much more similar to a Pogo 36 than anything else that is on the market and there would certainly be a market for a cheaper version of the Pogo.

 

[Daydream believer]

Nice to see the whole design team get involved in assembling the saloon table.

There's sure to be a screw missing.
.

Is that bloke at the back, the boss thinking to himself " How much are these muppets costing me?" ( but in French )

 

[Daydream believer]

...... and as I love to remind you, Yachting Monthly, the premier UK cruising magazine, gave what at the time was a design in its 4th decade, namely the CO32, a higher score than the latest MDF and plastic offering from Bavaria.

Since when did anybody believe a reporter?

 

[dunedin]

Wow. Some of the old fogies really agitated their false teeth at the start of this thread, and trotted out their usual prejudices.
Not sure any of them are likely to be using their cash to buy any new boat (and as ever, it is only the views of people who are actually in the market to buy that count), but clearly they should not buy this boat as the performance might spill their Ovaltine.

A straight stem has been the norm for seaworthy cruising boats since Frank Cowper etc in the 1890’s - the long overhangs being a (temporary?) fashion fad resulting from racing / rating rules which measured LWL rather than overall length.
And whilst I prefer a stern gate that closes, probably 90% of boats sold in the last decade have had an open stern (partly as it can’t trap a weight of water in the stern, that some old style cockpits did).

And let’s not kid ourselves that boats like this won’t be sailed outside lake Solent or in tough conditions. French built boats (with plumb bows and open sterns) have dominated offshore racing for years, doing a near clean sweep in most Fastnets (including the “British“ winner this year). Fleets of Beneteau Figaros have raced in the toughest weather, hordes of 21 ft Mini’s race across the Atlantic - and the high speed Open 60s hurtle round the world solo, with a breakage & sinkage rate less than the long keel boats in the Golden Globe Race. Most of our old heavy boats won’t venture anywhere as far or as fast.

A couple of years back we were sheltering from a strong wind forecast in Stornoway, along with a lot of other Brits in our heavy cruising boats. Meanwhile a French 32 footer breezes in, briefly heads to the shops for supplies, and saying “great wind for the Faroes” promptly heads back out to surf North West into the Atlantic.

 

[Daydream believer]

The last time we sailed to and from Holland/Belgium was about four years ago. I could have sailed across in the following years but was overruled. I know it is not 'the middle of the North Sea', which would be up by the Dogger Bank, but the weather in mid-Channel and the southern North Sea is unpredictable enough to make a seaworthy boat my first requirment. Marina-hop if you wish, but I would regard calling a boat that could only do that as a cruising boat as stretching the language somewhat.

But that is what the majority do want. It is only an 18/24 hour trip from Lowestoft to Holland & 14/18 hours from Burnham or Bradwell to Ostend. . For many that is an adventure to be attempted for their summer holidays. I have done that trip 156 times, 50% SH, & would love to have a go at doing it in that Bavaria. Brilliant boat for a blast across from the IOW to Cherbourg for the weekend , have a few beers,get p..sed with the lads, get some wine & blast back. I would quite happily sail round UK SH in it. & I am sure many would regard that as an excellent challenge. Who really wants to sail the atlantic or travel to the Azores or the Canaries. Only the dreamers so not that many really in proportion to boat owners

 

[dancrane]

...whilst I prefer a stern gate that closes...

You old fogey.

 

[pvb]

And whilst I prefer a stern gate that closes, probably 90% of boats sold in the last decade have had an open stern

I think it's important to distinguish what we mean by "open stern". For me, it means that the cockpit floor goes right to the transom, and there's nothing above it other than guardwires. So, like the new Beneteau First in the OP, or like the Pogo yachts. I find this rather disconcerting.

Most new yachts sold in the last decade have some sort of opening stern gate or "bathing platform", but these fold up when at sea to give some physical and psychological reassurance. I wouldn't call these "open stern".

My Bavaria has a big drop-down platform (more useful for boarding than bathing), but it lifts up to form a seating area when at sea.

 

[geem]

"Who really wants to sail the atlantic or travel to the Azores or the Canaries. Only the dreamers so not that many really in proportion to boat owners"

Er, me. .......Just off on our next Atlantic crossing?. Currently in Cascais.
Got back from the last Atlantic crossing last July via the Azores.

 

[dunedin]

You old fogey.

I am. But my son prefers the faster boats - eg when he delivered a Figaro race boat across the Bay of Biscay, surfing the whole way with kite up from Brittany harbour entrance to Royan. Autopilot on at 20 knots and never a roll or a broach (unlike an older boat which would have rolled across taking a few days)

 

[geem]

I am. But my son prefers the faster boats - eg when he delivered a Figaro race boat across the Bay of Biscay, surfing the whole way with kite up from Brittany harbour entrance to Royan. Autopilot on at 20 knots and never a roll or a broach (unlike an older boat which would have rolled across taking a few days)

Not necessarily so. We find the asymmetric set on the pole super stable. It stops rolling where we would be rolling under white sails. We had our spinnaker up several times between Falmouth and Cascais. If the conditions are right, we fly it. Our old tub averaged 7.5 kts for the first 24 hrs across Biscay. Onroute we can cook a proper meal, have a shower before bed and enjoy our night watch under a large sprayhood that keeps the wind away.
There is nothing wrong with the full planing hulls of Pogo style boats if that's what turn people on. It's not for me. As liveaboards we want a lot more comfort both underway and at anchor. Maybe 30 years ago a Pogo would have been my go to boat ?

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Not really a fair comparison is it? If you sailed a small cramped boat in the 70s/80s and now you sail a 40 footer how do you expect the small boat to compare on amenities? All that's happened is modern boats have got cheaper so you can but bigger. As you age you have more disposable income. All those amenities you describe have always been present on our 1980s cruiser it's just in the 80s you were sailing a cramped little boat and couldn't afford a 44 footer. Me to but now I can

But it is fair, because in the 70s/80s the average sailing family was on boats from 20 to 35 feet, we used to sail with loads of other families when I was a kid, and anything over 30ft was a palace - now families are in 35 to 45 foot boats - family cruisers start at around 33 feet - and there is no modern eqivalent to the 20 to 25ft pocket cruisers from the 70s/80s - try finding a real equivalent to the Kingfisher 20+ today, four-berth 20 footer with a sea toilet, wet locker, and miniature galley and chart table.

A 40 footer from the 70s/80s was eye wateringly expensive new .... the equivalent now is a 53-55 footer, with air-con, dinghy garage, generator, electric winches, bunny pad, water maker, electric mood lighting, electric sunbathing platform, at least four cabins with en-suite etc. etc. .... sure you can retro-fit some of it into an 80s boat but it will never be a modern boat, and modern manufacturers will never build a 70s/80s design again because there is no market for them.

The big plus is that if boats are looked after, they last a long time, so you can always find something that fits your aspirations, budget, DIY ability and personal taste. Every boat is a compromise, and every sailor buys the compromise they are happy with.