Sea Change
Well-known member
I read somewhere that Vectran doesn't have good UV resistance?
Cheap Asian sail lofts
- Thread starter Sea Change
- Start date
Puffin10032
Active member
That's absolutely correct but when used in a hybrid cloth (woven polyester reinforced by some other fibre), the cloth manufacturers have been able to give the Vectran fibres very good UV protection. These cloths are gaining a good reputation for longevity combined with shape holding. Don't take my word for it though, ask a few sailmakers.
Sea Change
Well-known member
So, it's now between Zoom and Rolly Tasker.
Zoom are lower price and a fair bit faster.
RT are a more established brand and their sales guff is impressively comprehensive, without coming across as waffle. They certainly strike me as knowing what they're doing. Not that Zoom don't, they're just a bit more concise.
Zoom are offering Dimension Polyant AP Blade, which as far as I can Google might be a tiny bit better than the Challenge Fastnet of RT.
So probably going to go with Zoom, but I'd appreciate any thoughts before taking the plunge.
Zoom are lower price and a fair bit faster.
RT are a more established brand and their sales guff is impressively comprehensive, without coming across as waffle. They certainly strike me as knowing what they're doing. Not that Zoom don't, they're just a bit more concise.
Zoom are offering Dimension Polyant AP Blade, which as far as I can Google might be a tiny bit better than the Challenge Fastnet of RT.
So probably going to go with Zoom, but I'd appreciate any thoughts before taking the plunge.
Puffin10032
Active member
I can't find AP Blade on DPs web site. I think they might have renamed it to AP Low Aspect as the actual cloth IDs (e.g., 280AP) are the same but you'll need to discuss that with your sailmaker (to me the term 'Blade' would suggest a cloth with a strong weft/fill made for high aspect ratio sails but I'm not German
). Given where you're located I think you should be looking at a cloth with very high UV protection. Again, talk to your sailmaker.
Baggywrinkle
Well-known member
I can't find AP Blade on DPs web site. I think they might have renamed it to AP Low Aspect as the actual cloth IDs (e.g., 280AP) are the same but you'll need to discuss that with your sailmaker (to me the term 'Blade' would suggest a cloth with a strong weft/fill made for high aspect ratio sails but I'm not German
I am German, this is the translation from the German blurb on AP Blade ....
https://raumplussegel.de/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/DP_All_purpose_blade_D.pdf
I also think it is AP Low Aspect as the text here ... AP Low Aspect sailcloth ... matches the German text on the German spec for AP Blade.
Last edited:
Puffin10032
Active member
Thanks. But I'm not sure it gets us any closer to answering the questions of a) why is AP not currently listed on DPs web site and b) are AP Blade and AP Low Aspect the same cloth. If not then how do they differ.
lustyd
Well-known member
The Rolly Tasker loft certainly looked impressive on Sailing Yacht Florence when they toured it. They put quite a few miles on the sails on the way home too and the sails still looked good.
Daydream believer
Well-known member
One of the things one has to look out for with blade sails is "Tubing" I had 4 self tacking sails in14 years & 3 tubed. By this I mean that at the head 25% they lost their foil shape & went into a semi circulat form. I think that it was due to the higher leech tension that inevitable arises with narrow sails. Because they do not overlap like a genoa etc one sheets them in closer & harder. Higher halyard tension does not help . The backwash on the main is not so prounounced so one can do this up wind.
I went from the standard east sail that came with the new boat in 6 months to a Bainbridge cloth made locally which was excellent at first but after 10,000 miles & in winds up to F8 without ever being furled it suffered. I later moved to a Hyde Marblehead racing - also a dacron diagonal cut but that tubed as well after I had used it in high winds.
With a big main & small jib I do not furl the jib.
I finally went to an Ultimate laminate sail. At the time they were doing well on the J class scene with their blade sails.
This sail has done well, but I wanted to change it a 3-4 years ago. However, covid plus my ill health has curtailed my activities making new sails less of a priority. Ultimate are expensive sailmakers.
So the point of this is that you may discuss this with the sail maker & ask how they try to avoid the problem within the construction. IE heavier cloth or different patterns in the top 25%
Just a though if you are researching
I went from the standard east sail that came with the new boat in 6 months to a Bainbridge cloth made locally which was excellent at first but after 10,000 miles & in winds up to F8 without ever being furled it suffered. I later moved to a Hyde Marblehead racing - also a dacron diagonal cut but that tubed as well after I had used it in high winds.
With a big main & small jib I do not furl the jib.
I finally went to an Ultimate laminate sail. At the time they were doing well on the J class scene with their blade sails.
This sail has done well, but I wanted to change it a 3-4 years ago. However, covid plus my ill health has curtailed my activities making new sails less of a priority. Ultimate are expensive sailmakers.
So the point of this is that you may discuss this with the sail maker & ask how they try to avoid the problem within the construction. IE heavier cloth or different patterns in the top 25%
Just a though if you are researching
Last edited:
Aja
Well-known member
Just remember that the OP is looking for a mainsail.
Daydream believer
Well-known member
Thanks for pointing out Apologies for brain fade. I had been reading something else & failed to keep up.
Post deleted now
Frogmogman
Well-known member
Neither a mainsail nor made in Asia, but we had a vast symmetrical starcut spinnaker (160m2) for the Swan 43 that was made in Tunisia by Sailonet Sailonet - Sailmaker
It was a really good and well made sail. A real weapon/terrifying instrument of the devil (depending on circumstances), and a lot cheaper than one made in France.
It was a really good and well made sail. A real weapon/terrifying instrument of the devil (depending on circumstances), and a lot cheaper than one made in France.
Egret
Member
How much cheaper are the Asian lofts against local (UK) sailmaker - and should we buy new sails from the local sailmaker to keep them in business so they are still there when we need repairs?
Puffin10032
Active member
In round number terms labour generally accounts for about 60-70% of the cost of a sail. If you take the Philippines as an example, the average annual wage there is about $3200/£2500 which is about 1/9th of our minimum wage so they can undercut us by a big margin and still make a handsome profit. No sailmaker could stay in business simply on repairs/valeting.
Daydream believer
Well-known member
When I was talking to Hyde's rep, the chap said it took one day to make my jib for my 31 ft boat. He did not say how many were needed to work on it, but he did say that the operation was very well mechanised. I find that exagerated, but he seemed quite certain, having been to the factory in the Philippines to see the operation. I would doubt that many UK sailmakers are that well tooled up.
Sea Change
Well-known member
Yes I would say that if everything else was equal, I'd go with Rolly Tasker based on reputation- which would also be a factor in any future resale of the boat.
Their latest communication suggests that we change the batten car system for increased luff pressure... I'm sure they know what they're doing but it's going to open up the price gap between them and Zoom. Hmmm.
Sea Change
Well-known member
In my case, the local Caribbean lofts don't manufacture anyway- the nearest would be Doyle's in Barbados.
I did get a quote from Crusader for a UK manufactured sail, and it wasn't completely ridiculous, but from memory something like 50% higher cost.
The last time I bought sails I was in the UK and I used Quay, because they had a deal with the boat's owners' association, and Kemp, because I was also getting a new boom and they were next door to Z Spars. I'm generally in favour of buying local when it makes sense.
Puffin10032
Active member
A day is about right, for a cross cut jib anyway. When I was sailmaking full time (back in the Jurassic) I could loft up, cut, sew and finish a dinghy jib in a day. A yacht headsail has more finishing detail such a leech line so takes longer but I was spending a couple of hours on my hands and knees marking out and cutting the panels by hand. All of that is done on a computerised plotter/cutter these days which saves a load of time (and knees!). So, yes, a day sounds about right to me. These big lofts tend to run on a factory system where the workers are trained to do just one part of the process so your sail may have gone from one person who operates the plotter/cutter to another who sticks the panels together to another who sews the seams to another who adds the corner patches and so on.
Until you get to really big boats where the weight of the sail makes it challenging to feed through the sewing machine, all you really need are a plotter/cutter and a means of feeding the cloth flat through the sewing machine. The latter is usually done by turning the room into a giant table with bays or wells for the sewing machines. Most lofts have a plotter/cutter. If they don't then some of the sailcloth suppliers will cut the panels for you at a nominal charge. Really it's the labour costs that account for the price difference between UK and far east sails.
ylop
Well-known member
Interesting claim. I don’t really see why not.
Zing
Well-known member
Have you tried North in Antigua? A friend was happy with a set they got there. Consider DP-DYS material. I have it and am satisfied. Caribbean use.
Puffin10032
Active member
a) there isn't enough volume
b) it tends to be seasonal work. People don't tend to send their sails off for valeting in the sailing season