kolyo
Member
Sorry, forgot to klick on "quote"".
Motion comfort a priority
- Thread starter kolyo
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kolyo
Member
LittleSister said:
Force 5 seems a lot for a partner with seasickness and bad back, especially in a small boat.
For ease of use a junk rig has a lot going for it. Few of them about though.
That said an LM23 or LM24 (or even one of the smaller LMs, though they're rare away from the Baltic), if you can find one in that location and price range, might be very suitable for your purposes.
1. Acceptable. No problem to set the limit at Force 3-4 That would mean no more that 20% less sailing time under the the usual summer conditions in my area.
2. I am eyeing a Dutch built Victoire 26 recently converted professionally with no expense spared. The only snag is she has an old Volvo diesel inboard.
3. I nearly bought a very well preserved LM 24 but was strongly advised against with the argument that a motorsailer is not good at either motoring or sailing. Perhaps I missed a good chance??
Force 5 seems a lot for a partner with seasickness and bad back, especially in a small boat.
For ease of use a junk rig has a lot going for it. Few of them about though.
That said an LM23 or LM24 (or even one of the smaller LMs, though they're rare away from the Baltic), if you can find one in that location and price range, might be very suitable for your purposes.
1. Acceptable. No problem to set the limit at Force 3-4 That would mean no more that 20% less sailing time under the the usual summer conditions in my area.
2. I am eyeing a Dutch built Victoire 26 recently converted professionally with no expense spared. The only snag is she has an old Volvo diesel inboard.
3. I nearly bought a very well preserved LM 24 but was strongly advised against with the argument that a motorsailer is not good at either motoring or sailing. Perhaps I missed a good chance??
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If it was no expense spared and they left the engine maybe its because its good?
Adios
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They tend to have fairly small sail areas for the size of boat but that could be ideal for you. Have the main up and use it as a steadying sail while motoring, no more rolling! Some help with moving forward plus a big help preventing sickness in crew.
LittleSister
Well-known member
You did! LMs are at the sailing end of 'motor-sailers' and faster than you would think from their bluff bows. They sail and motor well, and the layout - no companionway, just walk inside - is well suited to those of us less agile than we were.
Link to vids of them sailing and motoring -
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LittleSister
Well-known member
That looks nice for the money. Would be an interesting 'shake down' cruise from Rostock to Chalkidiki!
kolyo
Member
I may very well do it in different way. Buy a tailer and cruise down the motorway with my Land Cruiser v8. Only need convincing a junk rig is my best bet under the circumstances.
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Dellquay13
Well-known member
I started out on a motor boat in Greece ( I trailed my first boat from Britain to Thassos NE Aegean) and have ended up with a 24’ bilge keel yacht in Wales.
The big change for less boaty partners when you change from power to sail is getting them used to heeling, it is so unnerving to lean over when you are only used to motor boats. The motion on a yacht when under sail is so much nicer though than when it is motoring, yachts make awful motor boats. It’s better to keep a small amount of sail up to steady the motion. Don’t underestimate the companionway stairs either compared to your old motor boat, you may be surprised how steep they all are.
I think in your budget, your choice of boat will be governed by what you can buy locally; moving a sailboat yourself across Europe to a horrendously bureaucratic country is expensive and a PITA (I had a uk registered boat in Greece for 10 years and I know how the port authorities hate to get their official stamps out without bloodshed).
€8-12K would be best spent locally, and even then the choice will not be broad. There isn’t much market for old yachts like there is either side of the North Sea, you may be looking for ex flotilla boats or yachts left behind by expats heading back to Britain
The big change for less boaty partners when you change from power to sail is getting them used to heeling, it is so unnerving to lean over when you are only used to motor boats. The motion on a yacht when under sail is so much nicer though than when it is motoring, yachts make awful motor boats. It’s better to keep a small amount of sail up to steady the motion. Don’t underestimate the companionway stairs either compared to your old motor boat, you may be surprised how steep they all are.
I think in your budget, your choice of boat will be governed by what you can buy locally; moving a sailboat yourself across Europe to a horrendously bureaucratic country is expensive and a PITA (I had a uk registered boat in Greece for 10 years and I know how the port authorities hate to get their official stamps out without bloodshed).
€8-12K would be best spent locally, and even then the choice will not be broad. There isn’t much market for old yachts like there is either side of the North Sea, you may be looking for ex flotilla boats or yachts left behind by expats heading back to Britain
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kolyo
Member
A very painful PITA, I know it too well. Apparently there is a solution to that problem - sailing under a Dutch or, even better, a Polish flag.
As for the chance to find what I am looking for locally, it's practically zero unless I am extremely lucky to come across one left behind an expat. If fact I did see a Beneteau Evasion 28 motorsailer being sold by a Dutch couple but it is too big for me
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ChromeDome
Well-known member
You can go back and Edit - use the Edit function at the bottom of the post when you read your own post
ChromeDome
Well-known member
A motorsailer is a compromise. Some are sailboats with motorboat-like characteristics, others are motorboats with a mast, offered in both versions (e.g. Saga 24 and 27).
Ask die-hard fans in either camp and they'll tell you that anything but their favourite is garbage. In fact, they're only really happy with their own boat.
I'd suggest you try some and make your own opinion.
The only planing sailboat I can think of is MacGregor 26, which is trailer able too.
LMs were made very well and are popular. If you want to race make sure you do it against other LM -types (Moen , Mascot etc.)- they aren't light-wind flyers.
Motor very well and have great use of space, e.g. a good cockpit with seating for more than the crew. Benefits greatly from a reefed sail under motor in a chop - the hull is rounded and long-keeled.
The 24 shown is nice. The later designs (like LM 28) are different, more like a sailboat hull with a shorter keel, look more modern and keep higher prices.
All fitted with humble engines, most diesel, to push them up to hull speed + a little.
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Wansworth
Well-known member
Make a survey of boats for sale in your area say radius of an hours drive and report back,better a local boat at least to start with .Iam in the same fi although slightly younger but have been looking on web pages only,few boats have for sale placards and marinasrestrict just wandering about.In my view the engine has to be good and getatablefor non bendy people so in someways an outboard power souce Is interesting.
Praxinoscope
Well-known member
Very much a personal opinion, but I have always felt that various sail patterns and rigs have developed over the years to suit the particular winds/ sailing conditions that they were originally used in, the wind and wave patterns in the South China seas suit the Junk rig perfectly, as do the sails of an Arab Dhow suit the waters of the Nile, I can see the attraction of the simplicity of the junk rig, but feel that it it’s performance is less effective in the winds and waters of Europe.
mjcoon
Well-known member
Decades ago I sailed with a skipper who week-end chartered from Southampton and took groups of friends. One crew included a keen sailor and his new wife who had not been sailing (oh dear!). On our way across to the Isle of Wight the boat heeled, she panicked and demanded to be taken straight back by ferry. I didn't see them again...
kolyo
Member
Your arguments sound logical but what I am after is definitely not PERFORMANCE!! What I is need is SIMPLE, EASY TO USE, LOW MAINTENANCE and AS JAM PROOF AS POSSIBLE boat/rig type. And, last but most importantly, a STABLE 23-26 FOORER best suited for LIGHT WINDS SAILING!!! This is of paramount importance because of the HIGHLY SPECIFIC intended use in my particular case. I will NEVER, NEVER go out to sea if any lumpy conditions are to be expected. Pottering around in the well protected Toroneos Colpos of the Aegean at 3-4 knots would suit me down to the ground. And swimbo might not want to file for a divorce after all
.Wansworth
Well-known member
I think the essential conundrum to solve then is your good wife’s abutionary needs,,would she be content with a bucket,porta potty or require a full on boudoir.
38mess
Well-known member
Whatever you get make sure it has side decks! My last sailing boat had a wide coach roof for more room downstairs. The downside was the big steps up and down to adjust stuff. Doesn't sound much of a problem until you have been up and down half a dozen times. Very straining, especially for the knees.
kolyo
Member
When living in Portsmouth I got to know the Solent conditions with its ripping tides, strong currents and short steep pitching waves pretty well. Quite the opposite where I am now : virtually no tides, practically no currents, Force 6-7 winds once in a blue moon and not a single tanker or ferryboat in sight. Ever!
kolyo
Member
In actual fact she much prefers to do it while swimming. Starkers! Conditions over here are quite favorable for such extremely pleasurable acclivities
Praxinoscope
Well-known member
Kolyo, I do understand your requirements, being of a similar age to you, I have over the last few years changed from hank on foresails to furling Genoa so much easier, and recently fitted Lazyjack s and ‘packaway bag’ for the main. Both these changes have simplified sail handling and have so far proved to be as trouble free and maintenance free as the previous sail arrangements.
The reason I suggested, in an earlier post, a Sadler 26 or similar is because these boats offer a reasonable degree of comfort, are eminently suitable for single handed or short handed crewing.
You could perhaps look at the Leisure 23 if you want something with a slightly shorter LOA, or the Newbridge Navigator, both of which give substantial cabin accommodation for boats of their size. Of course neither of these might be common in your area.
My reservations on Junk rig are not that I think you want a high performance rig but that I question the efficacy of junk rig in the waters you intend to sail in, and that the Bermudan sloop rig is more suitable on the size of boat you are considering.
The reason I suggested, in an earlier post, a Sadler 26 or similar is because these boats offer a reasonable degree of comfort, are eminently suitable for single handed or short handed crewing.
You could perhaps look at the Leisure 23 if you want something with a slightly shorter LOA, or the Newbridge Navigator, both of which give substantial cabin accommodation for boats of their size. Of course neither of these might be common in your area.
My reservations on Junk rig are not that I think you want a high performance rig but that I question the efficacy of junk rig in the waters you intend to sail in, and that the Bermudan sloop rig is more suitable on the size of boat you are considering.