MainlySteam
New member
I have started a thread on vang sheeting, the responses to which (should it draw any responses) may be of interest.
John
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John
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main sheet traveler
- Thread starter terryo
- Start date
G
Guest
Guest
Colvic 26 is not a race boat ..... it is a cruise boat in the Centaur league ..... therefore tweaking will result in limited gains unless we are talking serious changes to sails / set etc. Please do not get upset - I like the 26 and I actually have a forerunner of it in the Sunrider 25.
Now I have a full traveller horse on the transom - guess what - the main sheet block is fixed by lashing to the centre - as I find it unnecessary in normal circumstances to adjust. Being in middle its a good compromise for both tacks.
I have sailed boats with a fixed point from cockpit sole / post etc. and really never missed the traveller for normal cruise use.
Now kets get to the race boat I have ... there we have a different story ... and I will not get into twist / set etc. - thats complicating what I regard as simply better angle of sheeting .... unless specific conditions dictate the traveller being a 'bridge' across the cockpit and with locking stops to hold the main sheet where we want. Normal the sheet traverses about the middle third, and when we need to harden on the wind - often the sheet is brought to other side at about 50% opposite the boom is carried .... allowing us to bring the boom to c/line ... or even across it in some cases.
My crew consists of : Estonian Laser Champ yrs 2000, 2001, 2002 as example ..... +of course me !! when I can get away from work .....
<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/
Now I have a full traveller horse on the transom - guess what - the main sheet block is fixed by lashing to the centre - as I find it unnecessary in normal circumstances to adjust. Being in middle its a good compromise for both tacks.
I have sailed boats with a fixed point from cockpit sole / post etc. and really never missed the traveller for normal cruise use.
Now kets get to the race boat I have ... there we have a different story ... and I will not get into twist / set etc. - thats complicating what I regard as simply better angle of sheeting .... unless specific conditions dictate the traveller being a 'bridge' across the cockpit and with locking stops to hold the main sheet where we want. Normal the sheet traverses about the middle third, and when we need to harden on the wind - often the sheet is brought to other side at about 50% opposite the boom is carried .... allowing us to bring the boom to c/line ... or even across it in some cases.
My crew consists of : Estonian Laser Champ yrs 2000, 2001, 2002 as example ..... +of course me !! when I can get away from work .....
<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/
flaming
Well-known member
My my! We did get out of bed the wrong side this morning.
In the end it comes down to personal preference. I would definately miss a traveller on a boat. In my opinion it is very very useful upwind, especially as using an aft sheeted main sheet to set twist and the traveller to trim the sail's angle of attack will result in far lower loads then using the vang for the twist. Don't forget that using a vang for twist upwind will result in high loading at the gooseneck as well.
Having had vang's explode on me, and having seen booms which have snapped at the vang attachment whilst beating into a head sea, reduced loadings is something I see as an advantage.
However, as I said, each to his own. I'm not going to critisie anyone for the controls they use to trim their sail, just stating my opinions as to what the best way of trimming the sail to maximise shape and minimise load is.
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In the end it comes down to personal preference. I would definately miss a traveller on a boat. In my opinion it is very very useful upwind, especially as using an aft sheeted main sheet to set twist and the traveller to trim the sail's angle of attack will result in far lower loads then using the vang for the twist. Don't forget that using a vang for twist upwind will result in high loading at the gooseneck as well.
Having had vang's explode on me, and having seen booms which have snapped at the vang attachment whilst beating into a head sea, reduced loadings is something I see as an advantage.
However, as I said, each to his own. I'm not going to critisie anyone for the controls they use to trim their sail, just stating my opinions as to what the best way of trimming the sail to maximise shape and minimise load is.
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G
Guest
Guest
Agree ..... when pushing the race boat iclose hauled .... we often slack the kick-strap tackle as the boom and gooseneck are then taking incredible strain when really going for it. The mainsheets set on the traveller then literally does all we need ... plus of course main halyard / outhauls etc.
We would soon lose something if we didn't in some conditions we are competing in ..... and I would rather come in last with all on board and safe - than not finish at all ....
BUT when running before wind - its a different matter hard on the kickstrp tackle to get that boom as horizontal and max sail as possible .....
<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/
We would soon lose something if we didn't in some conditions we are competing in ..... and I would rather come in last with all on board and safe - than not finish at all ....
BUT when running before wind - its a different matter hard on the kickstrp tackle to get that boom as horizontal and max sail as possible .....
<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/
MainlySteam
New member
What you keep missing is that in my posts in this thread and the Vang Sheeting one I am talking about boats built for what I say, and as I say many fast cruising boats are now built that way. Just because your boat falls apart does not mean that ones built for the task do.
Most cruising boats do not have a bowman, guy on the main, guy on the jib sheets, guy on the helm and a few more when needed. Cruising boats usually have someone in the cockpit on watch, perhaps reading a book, and someone down below sleeping or cooking a meal - any others may be doing whatever they like but not any of the things that you say.
The original posters question was not about an IACC boat. Sounds like you are just concerned with racing.
John
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Most cruising boats do not have a bowman, guy on the main, guy on the jib sheets, guy on the helm and a few more when needed. Cruising boats usually have someone in the cockpit on watch, perhaps reading a book, and someone down below sleeping or cooking a meal - any others may be doing whatever they like but not any of the things that you say.
The original posters question was not about an IACC boat. Sounds like you are just concerned with racing.
John
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G
Guest
Guest
As most sports do ...
they carry various developments / actions over to the man in street / cruising person .... whether it be Formula 1 to cars, race boats to cruise boats .... etc.
I agree with both sides - but also have my opinion that ease of use is paramount in cruising ..... as you say the helm is often tending all while others are doing other things ... that increases the req't to have simple and efferctive without bells and whistles set-up. So a kicking-strp / vang system that is fit and mostly leave-alone-able is preferred than adjusting etc.
Similar story with travellers ....... The way I sail my UK boat compared to the Estonian is vastly different ..... UK - as long as I get reasonable passage and sails are reasonably set - ok why play ...... estonia boat .... tweaks on genny sheet leads, halyard tensions, outhauls, kick-strap, backstays, traveller, second inner adjustable forestay to bend mast etc. etc. ...... yep we have some added tricks that make life VERY interesting ....... but really inapropriate on the average cruising boat ....
Each is entitled to their own style and opinion and I think getting heated up is not necessary .... as you can see I have also posted in the style of a boat as a motor sailer ... which the Colvic just touches into ... as my Sunrider does ...
<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/
they carry various developments / actions over to the man in street / cruising person .... whether it be Formula 1 to cars, race boats to cruise boats .... etc.
I agree with both sides - but also have my opinion that ease of use is paramount in cruising ..... as you say the helm is often tending all while others are doing other things ... that increases the req't to have simple and efferctive without bells and whistles set-up. So a kicking-strp / vang system that is fit and mostly leave-alone-able is preferred than adjusting etc.
Similar story with travellers ....... The way I sail my UK boat compared to the Estonian is vastly different ..... UK - as long as I get reasonable passage and sails are reasonably set - ok why play ...... estonia boat .... tweaks on genny sheet leads, halyard tensions, outhauls, kick-strap, backstays, traveller, second inner adjustable forestay to bend mast etc. etc. ...... yep we have some added tricks that make life VERY interesting ....... but really inapropriate on the average cruising boat ....
Each is entitled to their own style and opinion and I think getting heated up is not necessary .... as you can see I have also posted in the style of a boat as a motor sailer ... which the Colvic just touches into ... as my Sunrider does ...
<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/
MainlySteam
New member
Re: As most sports do ...
I like what you say on that Nigel and am the same as you, all to their own. However, I think it is foolish of some to go down the track that because their boat broke or they love to play with the strings all the time that modern design solutions from the worlds best designers provide an inferior result for performance cruising vessels.
John
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I like what you say on that Nigel and am the same as you, all to their own. However, I think it is foolish of some to go down the track that because their boat broke or they love to play with the strings all the time that modern design solutions from the worlds best designers provide an inferior result for performance cruising vessels.
John
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G
Guest
Guest
Re: As most sports do ...
Ok and agreed ..... but we also know that the average cruiser person puts up sails, sheets in and thats it ..... I know that sentence will generate some to shout WHAT ?? But after all cruising is cruising . Yes there are those that try for the last tiny bit of speed / efficiency from their systems ... all good.
Me beer in one hand and tlller-pilot remote in other is How I like it !!
Sail on ....
<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/
Ok and agreed ..... but we also know that the average cruiser person puts up sails, sheets in and thats it ..... I know that sentence will generate some to shout WHAT ?? But after all cruising is cruising . Yes there are those that try for the last tiny bit of speed / efficiency from their systems ... all good.
Me beer in one hand and tlller-pilot remote in other is How I like it !!
Sail on ....
<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/
ex-Gladys
Well-known member
Re: As most sports do ...
As an ex dinghy racer I spend a lot of time keeping the boat trimmed right. if you keep an overage speed up by 0.5 knot just by good trimming then your passage time is reduced by 12% all else being equal. I'm not as rigirius as when racing but when off the wind may well trim the main/jib every 5 mins or less if the wind is shifty...
<hr width=100% size=1>Larry Botheras
Anderson 26 "Amber"
As an ex dinghy racer I spend a lot of time keeping the boat trimmed right. if you keep an overage speed up by 0.5 knot just by good trimming then your passage time is reduced by 12% all else being equal. I'm not as rigirius as when racing but when off the wind may well trim the main/jib every 5 mins or less if the wind is shifty...
<hr width=100% size=1>Larry Botheras
Anderson 26 "Amber"