It's official we can now go sailing again!

[doug748]

I understand that this is Shore Store last year as the land has been sold for re-development.

I didn't know, thanks.

Shame really, they grafted to build the business up from nothing but I don't think the kids were interested in taking on the job of work. So that's another small yard down the pan. Still, good for them and happy days with the development booty.

.

 

[Graham376]

It's getting to the boat that's the issue. English to be shot on sight according to Dutch ?

I asked my local Welsh Assembly/Synod member the question today about access to caravans and marinas, this is his reply -

I am pleased to confirm that all non-essential travel in Wales is currently prohibited and holiday parks and other tourist accommodation must remain closed. There are currently no plans to lift these restrictions.

 

[Yellow Ballad]

I asked my local Welsh Assembly/Synod member the question today about access to caravans and marinas, this is his reply -

I am pleased to confirm that all non-essential travel in Wales is currently prohibited and holiday parks and other tourist accommodation must remain closed. There are currently no plans to lift these restrictions.

If I'm honest I'm not too fussed about going to the boat, I had already decided to have a season off but it would be good to get cracking with the jobs. I'm furloughed at the moment and the way I see it I'm getting paid 80% of my wage to stay safe and stay at home (and with 2 little ones keeping us busy I'm needed here). I personally think we need another 3 weeks before easing stuff so we're not planning on going anywhere for now. I can see driving to the boat and checking it is a seriously low risk thing, but I have to respect the rules. I imagine supermarkets are far more risky!

 

[Burt1971]

That is the previous guidance (Hence further down the page from the updated guidance). Their updated guidance from today states:

“As you will have seen, the latest measures to stop the virus spreading now include: staying at home as much as possible, limiting contact with other people, keeping at least two metres from others and washing your hands regularly.
Following the Government announcement on Sunday 10 May, we understand that from Wednesday 13 May, unlimited outdoor activity will be permitted in England and this will include all forms of boating.
The Prime Minister also indicated that people would be permitted to travel to other destinations in order to exercise, but that any activity will still need to be alone or with members of a single household and social distancing must be followed at all times.
In Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, the return to boating has not yet been confirmed. We will continue to monitor the situation and to press for a responsible and safe return for boaters in all parts of the UK.”

Hence, boating/sailing may be allowed, but of course marinas and port authorities will need to consider, and then update their guidance over the next few days.

Thanks. Didn't take much comfort from the RYA's [new] words "we understand that from Wednesday 13 May, unlimited outdoor activity will be permitted in England and this will include all forms of boating". First it is not clear from this that they've had a specific conversation with Defra or whoever - so far as one can tell it has not been stated anywhere official that "boating" is included or what "boating" covers. From this there is no basis for thinking that RYA knows anything more that the next man. It seems they may be interpreting ("understanding") the Govt guidance just like you and I can. If they had instead said "And the Government have advised us that..." then that would be different, but they clearly didn't say that.

Second the RYA's "understanding" may contain a verbal sleight of hand - as far as one can tell (happy to be corrected) the Govt has not said that "unlimited outdoor activity" is permitted - they've said "unlimited outdoor exercise" is permitted. If you go down to your boat and do some maintenance, are you exercising? Many people's view of exercising involves walking/ running/ cycling etc not driving to a yard to do some DIY on your boat. What does "boating" plus "exercise" cover?

Perhaps things will be become more official over time, but each person and marina/ club will meanwhile still have to take their own view possibly against the background of the Police interpreting things differently from region to region, as has been going on already (in London at the weekend the Police had apparently more or less given up in the parks, in contrast to other regions).

Am not blaming RYA, as their lawyers will have limited what they can say and I'm sure they tried as hard as they could, but I'd expect a lot of RYA-accredited clubs were hoping earlier today for more clarity from what is their trade association but still remain in a quandary.

 

[Mark-1]

I am pleased to confirm that all non-essential travel in Wales is currently prohibited

"Some public statements made soon after the adoption of the Regulations suggested that members of the public could only leave their homes if ‘essential’ to do so. However, this is not the test set out in the Regulations and there is no legal basis for a requirement in those terms to be imposed. The applicable threshold is that of ‘reasonable excuse’. "

https://www.college.police.uk/What-we-do/COVID-19/Documents/What-constitutes-a-reasonable-excuse.pdf


That's England, but the text of the Welsh law looks identical to me:
The Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (Wales) Regulations 2020

 

[chrisharris]

Thanks. Didn't take much comfort from the RYA's [new] words "we understand that from Wednesday 13 May, unlimited outdoor activity will be permitted in England and this will include all forms of boating". First it is not clear from this that they've had a specific conversation with Defra or whoever - so far as one can tell it has not been stated anywhere official that "boating" is included or what "boating" covers. From this there is no basis for thinking that RYA knows anything more that the next man. It seems they may be interpreting ("understanding") the Govt guidance just like you and I can. If they had instead said "And the Government have advised us that..." then that would be different, but they clearly didn't say that.

Second the RYA's "understanding" may contain a verbal sleight of hand - as far as one can tell (happy to be corrected) the Govt has not said that "unlimited outdoor activity" is permitted - they've said "unlimited outdoor exercise" is permitted. If you go down to your boat and do some maintenance, are you exercising? Many people's view of exercising involves walking/ running/ cycling etc not driving to a yard to do some DIY on your boat. What does "boating" plus "exercise" cover?

Perhaps things will be become more official over time, but each person and marina/ club will meanwhile still have to take their own view possibly against the background of the Police interpreting things differently from region to region, as has been going on already (in London at the weekend the Police had apparently more or less given up in the parks, in contrast to other regions).

Am not blaming RYA, as their lawyers will have limited what they can say and I'm sure they tried as hard as they could, but I'd expect a lot of RYA-accredited clubs were hoping earlier today for more clarity from what is their trade association but still remain in a quandary.

Agree re the definition of exercise, but it is (from Weds) ok to sunbathe in parks, on beaches etc, not just exercise. I would be happy to sunbathe on my boat, and maybe do some maintenance......

 

[Mark-1]

If you go down to your boat and do some maintenance, are you exercising?

Personally I'd have thought not, but since going to an allotment is exercise I suspect the intention is exercise for the mind/soul as well as the body. So maybe anything that gets you out of the house and doing something that keeps you sane counts.

I'm pretty sure sailing itself *is* exercise.

Source for allotment here: https://www.college.police.uk/What-we-do/COVID-19/Documents/What-constitutes-a-reasonable-excuse.pdf

 

[RobF]

... so, as I understand it...
I can travel to and from my boat
I can sunbathe on my boat
I can sail my boat (assuming harbour authority permit it)
I can do angling from my boat
I can do essential maintenance on my boat
I cannot stay overnight on my boat (as that would make it like a second home)
But I'm not clear whether I can travel to my boat to give it a pressure wash and install a solar panel (these aren't technically essential)

 

[Burt1971]

Personally I'd have thought not, but since going to an allotment is exercise I suspect the intention is exercise for the mind/soul as well as the body. So maybe anything that gets you out of the house and doing something that keeps you sane counts.

I'm pretty sure sailing itself *is* exercise.

Source for allotment here: https://www.college.police.uk/What-we-do/COVID-19/Documents/What-constitutes-a-reasonable-excuse.pdf

Thanks that Police doc is useful. It says “

Personally I'd have thought not, but since going to an allotment is exercise I suspect the intention is exercise for the mind/soul as well as the body. So maybe anything that gets you out of the house and doing something that keeps you sane counts.

I'm pretty sure sailing itself *is* exercise.

Source for allotment here: https://www.college.police.uk/What-we-do/COVID-19/Documents/What-constitutes-a-reasonable-excuse.pdf

actually having re-read it, the main govt document refers to there being an exception to staying at home when it is “necessary” to go out to “spend time outdoors for recreation” not just exercise. So the concept of “recreation” does go broader than exercise.

Wikipedia defines outdoor recreation as “Other traditional examples of outdoor recreational activities include hiking, camping, mountaineering, cycling, canoeing, caving, kayaking, rafting, rock climbing, running, sailing, skiing, sky diving and surfing.”

not so sure “I’m going sky diving officer” would pass the test though

 

[greeny]

... so, as I understand it...
I can travel to and from my boat
I can sunbathe on my boat
I can sail my boat (assuming harbour authority permit it)
I can do angling from my boat
I can do essential maintenance on my boat
I cannot stay overnight on my boat (as that would make it like a second home)
But I'm not clear whether I can travel to my boat to give it a pressure wash and install a solar panel (these aren't technically essential)

Who cares whether you clean it or not. You went for the exercise and it was dirty so you washed it.
Who's watching? Not me.
Just be sensible about it, keep your distancing if its busy and get on with it.
Thats my view, may not be official or legally correct to the n -th degree but sometimes a mans gotta do what a mans gotta do.

 

[RichardS]

Who cares whether you clean it or not. You went for the exercise and it was dirty so you washed it.
Who's watching? Not me.
Just be sensible about it, keep your distancing if its busy and get on with it.
Thats my view, may not be official or legally correct to the n -th degree but sometimes a mans gotta do what a mans gotta do.

The most energetic thing I do on my boat is cleaning it so that definitely meets the "exercise" requirement.

Richard

 

[Lucky Duck]

For absolute clarity the document above refers to the current regulations which were last updated on 22 April 2020 and not the new ones which really need to be published today.

 

[Mark-1]

For absolute clarity the document above refers to the current regulations which were last updated on 22 April 2020 and not the new ones which really need to be published today.

Yes, absolutely. Well worth being explicit about that. (I originally had a sneaking suspicion that the "changes" in England are are more tone than substance and therefore no law change would be required, maybe that's false.)

 

[JumbleDuck]

I don't think so.

You claimed travel in Scotland was only allowed for "essential reasons" and said that you couldn't see the term "reasonable excuse" in the legislation. I showed you where to find it.

 

[Lucky Duck]

Yes, absolutely. Well worth being explicit about that. (I originally had a sneaking suspicion that the "changes" in England are are more tone than substance and therefore no law change would be required, maybe that's false.)

I had the very same 'concern' as much of the original government advice went far beyond what the regulations actually specified and so it could have been claimed that restrictions were being relaxed without actually changing the regulations. (See Scotland where the relaxation of once a day limitation on exercise has been lifted despite not being in place since the early 19th century).

As the level of penalties are being increased the regulations will need to be changed, my assumption is the clause regarding exercise being a reasonable excuse will be extended to cover 'being outdoors' and permitting certain sports

 

[Seven Spades]

I had the very same 'concern' as much of the original government advice went far beyond what the regulations actually specified and so it could have been claimed that restrictions were being relaxed without actually changing the regulations. (See Scotland where the relaxation of once a day limitation on exercise has been lifted despite not being in place since the early 19th century).

As the level of penalties are being increased the regulations will need to be changed, my assumption is the clause regarding exercise being a reasonable excuse will be extended to cover 'being outdoors' and permitting certain sports

They can't name sports where does it stop, tennis , badminton, croquet, canoeing, rowing, golf, Frisbee, sailing, basketball, polo where does the list stop, they will just say something like exercise.

 

[Bobc]

Anyone had any communication from Premier about this? Nothing on their website yet. They seem to be keeping very quiet.

 

[Mark-1]

Anyone had any communication from Premier about this? Nothing on their website yet. They seem to be keeping very quiet.

They e-mailed me this yesterday:

We were excited by the Prime Minister’s announcement last night in which he said that unlimited outdoor activity will be permitted in England from Wednesday as we are of course hoping that this will include recreational boating. We expect the situation to be clarified with the publication of the detail at 2pm today and will update you on how we will be responding to that as soon as we can. In the meantime thank you for your patience and we hope to bring you more positive news shortly.

 

[SimonP85]

Anyone had any communication from Premier about this? Nothing on their website yet. They seem to be keeping very quiet.

Nope nothing yet since the "respond as soon as we can" message yesterday. They've had a fair bit of time to consider how to permit access (eg removing trolleys, signage etc) so will be fairly frustrated if they continue to drag their heels. I appreciate the Covid-Secure details are yet to be published but if other marinas can manage it then so can they.

 

[Seven Spades]

Most of the Marine industry is looking for excuses not to open rather than reasons to do so. The cynic in me says that they are making more money having furloughed their staff and yet enjoying berthing fees so the longer they stretch it the more money they make whilst trying to appear to be "following the rules" the victims of this are lease holder, berth holders and people who work in the yards.