Volvo Penta no longer provides warranties on their engines

ari

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Upon careful re-reading of the original extended warranty quotation commercial use is prohibited. Looking at the various VP sites throws up a bit of confusion as to what constitutes commercial use. I seem to recall mention of a 2,000 hour per year limit on commercial use. Our 180 hours would fall squarely in the recreational use category which I think talked of 500 hours per year.

I'm curious, when you had the extended cover last time, did you make any claims? If I recall correctly, you chartered that boat? I'm wondering whether you paid £12,000 for fresh air, as, from the sound of it, they wouldn't have honoured a claim in any case (since commercial use was prohibited).
 

henryf

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I'm curious, when you had the extended cover last time, did you make any claims? If I recall correctly, you chartered that boat? I'm wondering whether you paid £12,000 for fresh air, as, from the sound of it, they wouldn't have honoured a claim in any case (since commercial use was prohibited).
Our last boat was bought brand new second hand and had CAT C12 engines. No extended warranty was offered or indeed required as it transpires. The current boat was ordered new and built to our spec as first owners. A Volvo Penta 5 year protection plan was widely promoted during the build process.

Princess were as equally surprised as we were when Volvo Penta suddenly withdrew warranty provision without notice.
 

benjenbav

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This is from the VP leisure warranty:

“This Warranty applies only to leisure use. Leisure use means that the Product is only used for
Customer’s own personal use and recreation. This Warranty does not apply to products in commercial
or governmental use, including but not limited to revenue generation, passenger transport, cargo
transport, public sector service or rental, including charter. Products in commercial use are covered by
the Volvo Penta International Limited Warranty for marine commercial products, which is set out in a
separate Warranty Statement.”

I would guess you should have the commercial version, given the definition of leisure use in the above?
 

henryf

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This is from the VP leisure warranty:

“This Warranty applies only to leisure use. Leisure use means that the Product is only used for
Customer’s own personal use and recreation. This Warranty does not apply to products in commercial
or governmental use, including but not limited to revenue generation, passenger transport, cargo
transport, public sector service or rental, including charter. Products in commercial use are covered by
the Volvo Penta International Limited Warranty for marine commercial products, which is set out in a
separate Warranty Statement.”

I would guess you should have the commercial version, given the definition of leisure use in the above?
There is no warranty available leisure, commercial or otherwise.

According to that definition if any of your guests ever donate to fuel your warranty would be invalidated.
 

Flynnbarr

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Cannot recall seeing something with green paint on it lurking within any "proper" commercial craft have ever been on, White and Yellow but never Green ?
Commercial Nelson 45 Alert was re engined with Volvo d series I seem to recall
 

Refueler

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There is no warranty available leisure, commercial or otherwise.

According to that definition if any of your guests ever donate to fuel your warranty would be invalidated.

Donation to fuel cost is not going to invalidate any private leisure cover ...

The warranty clause states clearly in terms of the types of service to Monetary gain..... profit.

Sorry but I read your posts and the fact is that you are engaged in Commercial - no matter how short number hours per annum .. no matter who is in command of the boat ..

Two days ago - I received a 500 euro fine for driving my Opel Movano Truck on a road that charges a toll for commercial vehicles. The fact that I bought the vehicle to service my private pontoons etc. - not for commercial makes no odds ... in my case I feel I have greater moral justification against the fines situation. Despite it will never carry out Commercial work - I will now have to pay a 300 euro per annum additional Freight Tax ..

I realise that is not same scenario and monetary figures - but it illustrates the commercial aspect of such things are drawn lines and does not matter what we think .. the line is drawn.

As per IPT - that is a pain and already I've had to pay various ....
 

Tranona

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There is no warranty available leisure, commercial or otherwise.

According to that definition if any of your guests ever donate to fuel your warranty would be invalidated.
I think that is the standard Volvo 2 year warranty rather than the insurance product. Have you checked the warranty document that came with the engines?. I assume that Princess commissioned the engines and signed them off. Your consumer rights are with them, not Volvo and any issues under warranty are for them or the servicing dealer to deal with - and fight Volvo if necessary. After that, of course you are on your own, first with the servicing dealer and then Volvo.
 

benjenbav

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There is no warranty available leisure, commercial or otherwise.

According to that definition if any of your guests ever donate to fuel your warranty would be invalidated.
The quote was from VP’s initial out-of-the-box warranty document.

Not from any document now or formerly seeking to provide extended cover.
 

benjenbav

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I think that is the standard Volvo 2 year warranty rather than the insurance product…
Yes. The commercial equivalent, though, has different limitations. I stand to be corrected but I think that, for D13, it is 12 months/2,000 hours (lesser of).
 

ari

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There is no warranty available leisure, commercial or otherwise.

According to that definition if any of your guests ever donate to fuel your warranty would be invalidated.
That's a bit of a stretch. If you give me a lift to the airport and I give you a fiver toward petrol, would you feel obliged to immediately obtain a Hackney Carriage license? :)
 

harvey38

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I'll stick to my Ford Sabre 250 lumps then. A bit smokey on start up but old school engineering with parts still available 35 years on.
 

Daydream believer

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I'll stick to my Ford Sabre 250 lumps then. A bit smokey on start up but old school engineering with parts still available 35 years on.
If you were to go up the Thames, should you not be liable to S Khan's ULEZ charge?
Just wondering why he has not thought about it yet. Tilbury docks must be inside the boundary.
He would love that. :mad:
 

henryf

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Donation to fuel cost is not going to invalidate any private leisure cover ...

The warranty clause states clearly in terms of the types of service to Monetary gain..... profit.

Sorry but I read your posts and the fact is that you are engaged in Commercial - no matter how short number hours per annum .. no matter who is in command of the boat ..

Two days ago - I received a 500 euro fine for driving my Opel Movano Truck on a road that charges a toll for commercial vehicles. The fact that I bought the vehicle to service my private pontoons etc. - not for commercial makes no odds ... in my case I feel I have greater moral justification against the fines situation. Despite it will never carry out Commercial work - I will now have to pay a 300 euro per annum additional Freight Tax ..

I realise that is not same scenario and monetary figures - but it illustrates the commercial aspect of such things are drawn lines and does not matter what we think .. the line is drawn.

As per IPT - that is a pain and already I've had to pay various ....
The terms refer to “revenue generation”. By taking money for fuel you are generating revenue.

When I spoke to the head of VP in the UK and Ireland her concern surrounding charter and definition of it was the act of providing a bareboat rental service. She assumed we handed someone the keys to our F55 allowing them to drive off and cause damage…..

When I used to race cars we were constantly up against commercial large vehicle regulations despite them not being used for commercial gain. Toll had to be paid in Europe and driving limitations adhered to.

VP claimed the issue surrounded them having to pay IPT on any repairs which I have never come across and struggle to understand.
 

henryf

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I think that is the standard Volvo 2 year warranty rather than the insurance product. Have you checked the warranty document that came with the engines?. I assume that Princess commissioned the engines and signed them off. Your consumer rights are with them, not Volvo and any issues under warranty are for them or the servicing dealer to deal with - and fight Volvo if necessary. After that, of course you are on your own, first with the servicing dealer and then Volvo.
VP have confirmed we have an initial 2 year warranty on the engines. It is the extension to 5 years for a fee which has been removed from circulation.
 

henryf

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That's a bit of a stretch. If you give me a lift to the airport and I give you a fiver toward petrol, would you feel obliged to immediately obtain a Hackney Carriage license? :)
I was merely quoting the words of the VP warranty when taken as written.

My dealings with them have highlighted a surprising lack of understanding as to how their products are used.
 

henryf

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I think that is the standard Volvo 2 year warranty rather than the insurance product. Have you checked the warranty document that came with the engines?. I assume that Princess commissioned the engines and signed them off. Your consumer rights are with them, not Volvo and any issues under warranty are for them or the servicing dealer to deal with - and fight Volvo if necessary. After that, of course you are on your own, first with the servicing dealer and then Volvo.
It’s much easier bypassing the underlings and going directly to the big dog. It removes Chinese whispers and ensures any message is delivered precisely and to the point.
 

ylop

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The terms refer to “revenue generation”. By taking money for fuel you are generating revenue.
I think the definition of commercial use and pleasure use are pretty clear cut in U.K. maritime law and are widely accepted to allow closely related persons to share a direct cost. Your word guests may be broader that that legislation. The standard dictionary definitions of revenue usually refer to company / commercial use. Charities often do not refer to revenue unless it’s from a business operation. I don’t think VP would try to enforce an issue if you were sharing fuel costs in a manner permitted by MGN280 as pleasure use.
VP claimed the issue surrounded them having to pay IPT on any repairs which I have never come across and struggle to understand.
I agree it makes no sense as IPT is paid on the premium not the claim. But the regulatory world in insurance is complex so I can imagine their compliance costs are complex. Eg they are a Swedish co, with a UK subsidiary, selling to a U.K. resident but potentially performing the repair in one of many EU countries. So which country do you pay IPT in (U.K. presumably), corporation tax ??, vat on repair? Etc.
 

henryf

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I think the definition of commercial use and pleasure use are pretty clear cut in U.K. maritime law and are widely accepted to allow closely related persons to share a direct cost. Your word guests may be broader that that legislation. The standard dictionary definitions of revenue usually refer to company / commercial use. Charities often do not refer to revenue unless it’s from a business operation. I don’t think VP would try to enforce an issue if you were sharing fuel costs in a manner permitted by MGN280 as pleasure use.

I agree it makes no sense as IPT is paid on the premium not the claim. But the regulatory world in insurance is complex so I can imagine their compliance costs are complex. Eg they are a Swedish co, with a UK subsidiary, selling to a U.K. resident but potentially performing the repair in one of many EU countries. So which country do you pay IPT in (U.K. presumably), corporation tax ??, vat on repair? Etc.
Let’s not get sidetracked by trying to re-write or interpret VP’s ambiguous terms and conditions.

VP withdrew the warranty cover for all customers including recreational. The withdrawal was EU wide not just here in the UK.

When discussing the matter with the head of VP and Ireland she specifically asked me where we used our boat (it was at this point that she told me my engines were capable of crossing oceans). I confirmed it was only in the UK but despite this she said that she was unable to get a warranty on their engines regardless of for recreational or commercial use.
 

Refueler

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The terms refer to “revenue generation”. By taking money for fuel you are generating revenue.

When I spoke to the head of VP in the UK and Ireland her concern surrounding charter and definition of it was the act of providing a bareboat rental service. She assumed we handed someone the keys to our F55 allowing them to drive off and cause damage…..

When I used to race cars we were constantly up against commercial large vehicle regulations despite them not being used for commercial gain. Toll had to be paid in Europe and driving limitations adhered to.

VP claimed the issue surrounded them having to pay IPT on any repairs which I have never come across and struggle to understand.

Sorry - here we will move apart as your interpretation of clear Warranty Clause as posted in this thread shows you are bending the issue to suit your stance. Taking a sum from a guest in part for fuel is not 'revenue generation' - its "cost apportioning" ... similar to the act of Ride Share with cars ..
In your case - you have openly stated that you do generate income from the boat regardless of the short number of hours involved. You have a Qualified Skipper - who pays for him and where does that money come from ? I cannot believe you are a charity on this.

I agree that removal of the extended warranty is an issue not to be taken lightly. But I would suspect that the conversation with the VP person pushed them to answer on something they most likely have limited actual knowledge of why it was removed. If they had been given opportunity to refer to the relevant department in VP and get back to you later - I daresay their reply may have been different.

IPT as another says is based on the Premium Paid .. not on the claims. VP would not have any control of that as it has been shown their extended warranty was a 3rd party matter. It also does not make sense for VP to take issue over IPT - they would simply quote the Premium + IPT payable - same as any Broker would. They have chosen to not do so - they are not Brokers.
I have a strong suspicion that there is more to this removal of VP extended warranty and is not related to IPT or your wish to have it. I can well imagine that the person you spoke too really did not wish to get into discussion on this ....

My first action after being told VP would not provide such warranty - would have been to approach a 3d Party Broker to provide cover - probably cheaper as well !!
 

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