Volvo Penta no longer provides warranties on their engines

[henryf]

If you take your foot off a lorry's throttle it will coast until it stops.

Do the same with a boat and it will stop very quickly.

You must've noticed that by now Henry !

I'm not coming off the throttle until I see God or the checkered flag...

Take your foot off the gas going up hill in a lorry and you make the 6 O'Clock news going backwards fast.

 

[henryf]

Yours yes. But unless you are running a keel cooler they are all sucking in sea water and breathing in salty air. Regardless of how clean you think your engine room is it is not a kind environment. Not compared to a plant /agricultural or automotibe engine. Thats a given.

But surely a predictable environment, certainly for the first 5 years ?

 

[volvopaul]

It seems Volvo Penta have lost faith in their marine engines. When buying a new boat last year one of the big comforting factors was knowing we could extend the engine guarantee beyond the initial 2 year minimum provision. Volvo, for a fee, provided a 3 year extension meaning they stood by their engines for 5 years. It wasn’t’ cheap, the cost on our D13 900 engines was around £12,000 but for £4,000 a year you were sheltered from catastrophic bills.

All of a sudden in 2023 without warning Volvo removed this guarantee. The official line was that it was something to do with the way insurance premium tax was treated within the EU. Of course here in the UK we are now outside the EU, had I found my first genuine benefit to Brexit? Err… no. Volvo said although it was an EU thing it affected non EU countries as well somehow. But leave it with us…..

I reached out to Samantha Hindson, head of Volvo Penta for the UK and Ireland. We exchanged emails and also spoke directly over a number of months but sadly there was nothing that could be done. Volvo were not prepared to guarantee their engines beyond the minimum 2 year requirement. At this point the legal beagles amongst you will start quoting consumer law, minimum expectations on what are very expensive engines, manufacturer obligations and so on. As and when something goes wrong it may well be possible to pursue Volvo Penta through the courts for compensation and we will of course go down that route if required but life is a bit too short. I’d rather play the game, hand over my £12,000 before anything has gone wrong and know I’d got a hassle free path of resolution via the official service network. As it is we would likely end up getting the work covered plus legal costs recovered and not have to pay the £12k but it gets messy and causes stress.

Whilst chatting with Samantha another interesting point was raised. We charter our boat. It comes with a dedicated commercially endorsed Yachtmaster skipper of more than 20 years experience who is familiar with the boat and mechanically very sympathetic. He is the only person to operate the boat, ever. The boat does around 200 hours per year so no more than might occur on a privately owned and operated vessel. Because of the commercial element Volvo point blank refuse to offer any warranty and would never have offered the extended warranty anyway.

This struck me as odd. Mikey Millionaire goes to a boat show knowing nothing about boats, buys a boat and was offered a 5 year engine warranty from Volvo despite having no experience or knowledge surrounding the operation of said vessel. But a professional, experienced and qualified operator was refused the warranty. How could that be? Well consider this:

If you were Volvo Penta and your engine failed it would be quite easy to blame operator error if the operator in question was a hapless amateur with little or no experience. The result Volvo Penta are off the hook. If however the operator was qualified and experienced it would be harder for Volvo Penta to absolve themselves of their responsibilities. Now I may be reading this all wrong but how else could you justify penalising a careful, experienced and qualified operator versus an amateur?

So there you have it. Volvo Penta are no longer offering guarantees on their engines beyond the minimum requirement. Officially they say they are committed to quality and all that stuff but they won’t put their money (well actually my £12,000) where their mouth is. If you’re having a boat built then consider the longer term implications and commitment of the engine manufacturer carefully. Marine inboard engines are not cheap and they are also an integral part of the boat usually installed at an early stage of construction. removing and replacing is not easy so you need assurances that they will last more than 2 years.

Welcome to the world of Volvopenta , to be honest when I heard you were buying a new boat I was very surprised you went for the Swedish lumps, the salesman must have plied you with an extra vino or three .
I cannot really add much to what you have said other than there is a lot more than your gripe that goes off behind closed doors that the general public never get to hear about .
My option has got even worse over the years , I’ve been around this product now over 31 years , instead it gets worse by the day from major supply issues to silly little quality control issues like today when I was servicing a pair of D6 engines right down to the length of bolts they supply for the faceplate , they are now too short for the job required, it’s a schoolboy mistake where no one cares , and no one checks . I dread it when my parts supplier says oh by they way that parts changed number , they do that when they change supplier and often it’s incorrect part for the job or say for example a sensor screws into it the sensor thread is incorrect or it leaks when you fit it .
I guess from your job selling high end German cars you have been used to top quality over the years , you won’t get this from your current engine manufacturer.

As for the extended warranty program as an independent engineer you would not believe how long if at all in some cases you get a credit back in parts that have failed under warranty it’s a battle , then people wonder why people go for after market parts in cases where you know the after market one is just as good.
Take the case when if Joe Public has his part fitted by a dealer he gets a 2 years parts and labour warranty, but if I supply the same part I only can give a warranty from the invoice purchase date , yes crazy I know but that’s the case .
However I hear than in cases of for example an IPS rebuild that’s not the case as they now want to supply reconditioned units only , I guess the claims were just too heavy .
I only heard the other day of a case with a new boat uk builder supplied with D3 units that there a so many faults with the the owner has yet to use it , the Spanish dealers cannot sort the issues out the boat is not Useable, hearsay I know but over the years I’ve heard it all before .
Lastly the older engines , earlier EDC models , certain parts like ecu and control keypads , SPM units no available, when will it end , they just blame covid .
Rant over ! Good luck with your new engines , my advice document everything, take photos of dashboard readouts , buy a vodia from America and download your own data to give to the tech when he arrives on board .

 

[Portofino]

It’s will be a combo of Bruce’s complexity point particularly the electrotwackery.@ the factory they maybe changing suppliers ( China ) every few yrs .I recall a 74 ECU issue hitting a lot of guys when they did this .
Seeing as the oily bits seem robust it’s the intermittent electrical faults , bringing in the “ hostile sea air environment “ mentioned the less than best quality connectors and then possible parts compatibility……add in soft where reloads and you are talking a hell of a lot of tech time .
Repeated tech time btw .

So even with a carrot of £12 K from a business pov they are better not offering .

The commercial engines will be de rated , not as souped up as the cooking motorboat version.

I know that MAN try and manufacture everything or at least as much components in house to keep quality control up .
If Volvo have drifted down way down the outsourcing road then you can see why they are running away from the bare min warranties .
Remember CAT iirc they outsourced intercoolers I think Mexico and the corroded busting engines .A class action lawsuit was eventually won by boat owners ( took yrs ) and CAT changed the design and changed the service procedure re assigning them a 7 yr throw away / change out part .



Lorry engines are unstressed by comparison to the same block in a boat .
You can’t compare .
My 12.8 L marine block is turbocharged to 700 Hp ( latest 800 Hp ) the eq truck would have been 380 ish .
They don’t have sea water coolers or sea water pumps .The failed cooler trying to hydrolock it and the failing WP trying to dilute the oil and knacker the crank bearings .
As others have said they have a gearbox so never really overload or if so for seconds .Many modern trucks have the equivalent of a PDK box with umpteen gears so the rpm / load is all taken care of aside that’s why they go to 1 million Kms and more without opening them up .

Boats just got one gear top gear which if the prop / hulls fouled gets even higher .Also leisure boats stand still longer in effect internally drying out as the oil drops into the sump .A bus in service motor never drys out

 

[Tranona]

The change in policy came about shortly after you were offered your warranty. Had you gone back to them towards the end of that 6 month window you would have found it was revoked. Speaking with European VP dealers in Düsseldorf they told me providing the warranty was taken out before the end of the 2 year manufacturer’s warranty it used to be ok, before VP pulled the warranty.

Given your comment about Insurance tax, I suspect that it is not a factory warranty but a third party insurance and maybe the premiums they are paying have exceeded the price they can charge to consumers. I tried to claim under the extra warranty I paid for with my Volvo and discovered that it is more restrictive than the 2 year initial warranty and did not cover the component that failed. Value not worth pursuing under consumer rights even though I thin I had a solid case.

 

[volvopaul]

So hauling 44 tonnes up hill is easy then? At least the sea is level.

A marine engine is on load from the second you open the throttle , it’s pushing a big hole in the water , your engine in a truck will be de rated to around 560 hp from memory it’s not working any where near as hard and a marine unit does .
I doubt you ever run much at full throttle anyway as the fuel burn will be eye watering even if the charter guests are paying .
If you get a tech on board and do a sea trial as him to show you the throttle load on the vodia you will see how hard it’s working at various speeds , you will be able to work out an economical cruise speed based on weight and how fouled the hull and props are .

 

[jakew009]

Take your foot off the gas going up hill in a lorry and you make the 6 O'Clock news going backwards fast.

I was thinking exactly that as I read petem's post

I used to have a wagon and drag that was a bit underpowered at 44t and the gearbox was past it's best, if you slightly misjudged a gear change it came to a very sudden stop and you were in crawler gear for the rest of the hill with zero chance of making it back to first.

It was a cause for celebration when you came down from high box to low box and managed to drop half a cog in one move without grinding

 

[oldgit]

.

The commercial engines will be de rated , not as souped up as the cooking motorboat version.

Right from the start , industrial versions of marine diesel engines, no matter what colour the paint, have always been derated compared to the leisure version.
Commercial market wanted longevity and reliability over sexy horse power claims ?
VP have concentrated on the leisure market, as customers demanded bigger and bigger boats VP simply produced a engines to move these craft at the sorts of speeds that folks thought they should be able to move at, perhaps that has now reached its limit regards reliability.
Cannot recall seeing something with green paint on it lurking within any "proper" commercial craft have ever been on, White and Yellow but never Green ?
In favour of VPs small engines , on our moorings the vast majority are powered by something with a Green engine block, many over 30 years old and some a deal older than that, smattering of Perkins Sabres and one or two rebels with Nannis and Yanmars.
Lots of 40/41/60 series engines still going strong with parts still available both aftermarket and genuine VP.
Do the same warranty restrictions apply to the entire range of new VP engines ?

 

[Whopper]

I wonder if it’s the case that they’re getting killed on warranty claims on the IPS/outdrive + joystick control side of things and thats pulled the rug on extended warranty for shaft drive boats too.

 

[ylop]

The official line was that it was something to do with the way insurance premium tax was treated within the EU. Of course here in the UK we are now outside the EU, had I found my first genuine benefit to Brexit? Err… no. Volvo said although it was an EU thing it affected non EU countries as well somehow.

Even though we are outside the EU there is still a lot of alignment on trade rules to try and make stuff simpler. Even if this particular rule does not apply in the U.K. - you can easily imagine that we are too small a market to offer a niche product not available in rest of Europe.

My guess is that either Volvo just don’t want to be in the world of IPT - which is fair enough, but then I’d have thought they’d have been able to point your to a private provider of such insurance, OR they realise that the next “misselling” scandal (PPI, diesel cars etc) is extended warranties and they don’t want to be part of that - and the inevitable compensation payouts.

At this point the legal beagles amongst you will start quoting consumer law, minimum expectations on what are very expensive engines, manufacturer obligations and so on.

Although I’m not sure you are a “consumer” if you charter the boat?

Because of the commercial element Volvo point blank refuse to offer any warranty and would never have offered the extended warranty anyway.

I’ve always presumed the different terms for consumers and commercial users was because they were concerned about consequential loss claims. I.E. if you have to cancel a week long charter because you are waiting for parts. Certainly a commercial operator I know runs outboards and has a spare (300?) sitting in his shed “just in case” because they can swap it in a day rather than wait for the maker to diagnose and get parts for anything complicated.

If you’re having a boat built then consider the longer term implications and commitment of the engine manufacturer carefully. Marine inboard engines are not cheap and they are also an integral part of the boat usually installed at an early stage of construction. removing and replacing is not easy so you need assurances that they will last more than 2 years.

I’d say - if you are having a boat built and recognise the issues involved in removing an engine as a real risk (it is even if it’s warrantied) you’d want to prioritise boats where that was a job that didn’t involve major surgery!

They clearly think they wouldn’t be in profit. They’re telling me they expect my engines to incur more than £12,000 worth of mechanical failure from year 3-5.

That’s not what they’ve said - they have said selling an insurance product is too complex/expensive and they aren’t in that business. I suspect it’s just as likely that so few people expect to need £12k worth of claims that the market is so small it’s not worth the hassle for them - people who don’t take the product may still have a consumer rights / goodwill type issue anyway so you are probably attracting the “wrong sort” of customer with this offerings - the customer who believes he’s insured for everything and it’s Volvos job to fix it.

So hauling 44 tonnes up hill is easy then? At least the sea is level.

Do you only go out on calm days then?

 

[henryf]

A number of points raised by various people. Thank you.

Yes, it was an aftermarket warranty which I think came from an American company from what I could glean talking to various people. The benefit of buying a Volvo branded warranty even if it was actually supplied by a third party was that you didn’t fall through the manufacturing defect gap. If the manufacturer is providing the warranty then they’ll have to pick up the bill even if the insurer refuses.

I haven’t investigated the options around after market products. I want(ed) a product from the manufacturer that showed support and faith providing we held up our side of the deal by using Volvo agents for any works.

In terms of consequential losses I would assume they were not covered under any event. If a private owner is unable to use their boat because of a mechanical issue would there not still be consequential losses? The seasonal window of use can be quite short particularly if you factor in things like school holidays.

Ultimately I have a scale of expectation which runs alongside my responsibility as an owner. If the engines and ancillary VP equipment fails to meet that I will seek redress. It would have been nice to have an agreement in place which prevents any friction but VP clearly have different views.

 

[ari]

So hauling 44 tonnes up hill is easy then? At least the sea is level.

Level, and about 800 times denser than the air a lorry is pushing through. It's like permanently going uphill for every single mile, at least a lorry gets to go downhill sometimes, and also has the advantage of lower gears to help, a marine engine is effectively in top gear the entire time.

My guess would be that at £12,000 to insure the engines for 3 years, probably there weren't enough take up to make running the scheme worthwhile, so they dropped it.

Incidentally, I'm old enough to remember when Volvo Penta engines came with three years of warranty as standard!

 

[benjenbav]

Hi Henry - Not sure if I’m being thick but, despite re-reading your initial post, I’m not sure if the situation is;

1 - You bought an extended warranty and Volvo has purported to have cancelled it?

Or

2 - Before you bought the boat you were promised unequivocally that you would be able to buy an extended warranty at any point within the first 2 years after purchase?

Or

3 - Neither of the above but Volvo has changed its policy on procuring extended warranties for customers?

If either 1 or 2 applies you might (subject to contract terms) expect some sort of redress.

If 3, perhaps less so. But it does reduce the appeal of the product for customers in general, I should think.

 

[benjenbav]

Hi Henry - Not sure if I’m being thick but, despite re-reading your initial post, I’m not sure if the situation is;

1 - You bought an extended warranty and Volvo has purported to have cancelled it?

Or

2 - Before you bought the boat you were promised unequivocally that you would be able to buy an extended warranty at any point within the first 2 years after purchase?

Or

3 - Neither of the above but Volvo has changed its policy on procuring extended warranties for customers?

If either 1 or 2 applies you might (subject to contract terms) expect some sort of redress.

If 3, perhaps less so. But it does reduce the appeal of the product for customers in general, I should think.

The aspect of Volvo purportedly never having offered an extended warranty for commercial use also begs the question of what the understanding was when you bought the boat from Princess. Was that indeed the case? Did Princess know this and did they know that your use would be commercial?

Finally, given that the extended warranty was a product that used to be bought from a reinsurer, can Princess procure something similar for you and thereby maintain the continuity from point of supply of the boat?

 

[SC35]

Would something like this be of any use?

Boats & Yachts Warranty - Inboard Coverage

 

[henryf]

Princess were fully aware of our intended use. Indeed we work with them to provide charter provision within the Solent. They provided a quotation for extended cover with a 3 month window. This will have been partly to cover any cost increase and I suspect an element of inducement to purchase. Having just spent 7 figures on a new boat I made it clear that we would be taking out cover but not until later in the window of opportunity. Depending on who you speak to the extended warranty had to be taken out in the first 12 months or 24 months. All the extension products I’ve ever come across have to be taken out before termination of the original manufacturer’s warranty.

Upon careful re-reading of the original extended warranty quotation commercial use is prohibited. Looking at the various VP sites throws up a bit of confusion as to what constitutes commercial use. I seem to recall mention of a 2,000 hour per year limit on commercial use. Our 180 hours would fall squarely in the recreational use category which I think talked of 500 hours per year.

When speaking to the head of VP UK and Ireland she cited concerns over bareboat charter where operator error could be rife. She didn’t understand that you can’t bareboat rent an F55. She didn’t have an answer when it was explained our boat had a single commercially qualified skipper.

I have no desire to try and tie someone up in legal knots to obtain cover. It should be offered freely by a manufacturer proud of their engines and keen to support them in a competitive marketplace. The head of VP UK and Ireland referred to our engines as blue water engines that could cross oceans. Given that then the Solent shouldn’t prove too much of a challenge.

Ultimately I’ve tried my best to do the right thing and pay for extended cover. If failures occur within that first 5 year window that breach realistic expectation then I will have no qualms in seeking redress which may exceed the limit of the extended cover. I’m happy that I’ve spoken directly to the head of VP here in the UK so there’s no risk of being fed misinformation.

You can only do so much to help people help themselves……

 

[SC35]

Before "seeking redress", it's worth taking a wander around the streets opposite the Royal Courts of Justice in The Strand.
Note the number of Merc S-Class, Bentley, full-fat Range Rovers, etc.

 

[henryf]

Would something like this be of any use?

Boats & Yachts Warranty - Inboard Coverage

Yes, potentially that looks like comprehensive cover and includes things like the throttle controls and associated ECUs.

We have to consider whether failure of any of the covered components would be deemed unreasonable on an up to 5 year old boat owned by the original buyer and serviced by the main agents in accordance with VP schedules. If that’s the case then I would expect VP to cover the work. I gave them the opportunity to cover their liability but they declined.

On an older boat with unknown provenance that warranty cover looks tempting.

 

[henryf]

Before "seeking redress", it's worth taking a wander around the streets opposite the Royal Courts of Justice in The Strand.
Note the number of Merc S-Class, Bentley, full-fat Range Rovers, etc.

Indeed. I have had some success in the past fighting my own battles without the need to involve S Class Mercedes S Class drivers. Common sense is and always will be common sense.

 

[roa312]

I could already think of enough reasons for not even consider speccing VP engines if I were building a boat, well before and regardless of this announcement.

@MapisM Can I ask you to please explain why you prefer the other brands over Volvo Penta engines? VolvoPaul already listed several recent issues with VP, but I'm curious to understand your perspective and what led you to this preference.