Newbie Seeking Advice

[ClaytonDJ]

Hi - I'm a newbie who has just joined this treasure trove of a forum.

Got into power boating just after COVID. Obtained RYA qualifications - L2 Powerboat and ICC, Intermediate Powerboat, Advanced Powerboat, Day Skipper, VHF, etc.

I own a 6m RIB berthed at Conwy Marina in North Wales. Have just retired from work aged 62 and looking at buying a berth in Southern Spain and a small motor cruiser.
Visiting Spain (Torrevieja) next week to view a Sealine S28 powered by twin KAD 32 DPs. Engine servicing paperwork not comprehensive and advert indicates they have done 2100 hours. Broker states local Volvo outfit confirms working on the engines but looks like the owner has not retained paperwork!

I read on here that Volvo Penta KAD32s are good, reliable engines if regularly serviced and maintained well.

I'm not a mechanic - so if I like the boat will be shelling out for full survey and have the engines/drives inspected by a marine engineer, Ahead of this is their anything blindingly obvious that I should be looking for when I view the boat (it is in the water at the moment)?

In respect of questioning the broker/owner about servicing/maintenance - how far can I reasonably challenge. If routine servicing has not been carried out can I request it be undertaken before I purchase - or use as. negotiating point to reduce selling price?

Sorry for multiple questions but keen to not buy something on its last legs or that will let me down the moment I take ownership.

 

[stelican]

2100hrs seems very high.
Perhaps others would comment on longevity of sterndrives.

 

[ClaytonDJ]

2100hrs seems very high.
Perhaps others would comment on longevity of sterndrives.

This is my area of biggest concern. I need to quiz the broker and the owner selling the boat about the hours. Possible that it has done some long passages along the med coastline - but still nervous about lack of paper trail supporting servicing and maintenance.
If I can drive down the selling price then maybe worth my while replacing the engines and drives with reconditioned units? Anyone suggest approximate cost for doing so?

 

[Neil1300r]

Lots of boats for sale, why do you want the one with high hours and no paperwork? As for replacing the engines, if you physically look at the boat check you can get the engines out without cutting the cockpit floor. I know on a S34 the KAD32's almost certainly won't just come out of the engine hatch.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Engine replacement a total non starter on commercial grounds. Boat isn't worth it. As said, suggest you look at others. Plenty of boats for sale in the Med, some will be in great condition with good paper trail and service history, others will be unloved piles of junk. You need to look at lots to build up a picture of what good looks like. And what the different models offer given your own expected use. Other factor is that most people don't keep their first boat very long, so buying one that's easy to resell is a great idea.

 

[ClaytonDJ]

Lots of boats for sale, why do you want the one with high hours and no paperwork? As for replacing the engines, if you physically look at the boat check you can get the engines out without cutting the cockpit floor. I know on a S34 the KAD32's almost certainly won't just come out of the engine hatch.

Thanks Neil. I am looking at several boats - its just that the Sealine S28 is one of my preferred options and the price is competitive. I also note Sticky-fingers response regarding engine replacement so unless there is evidence of servicing and maintenance I will probably steer clear. First motor cruiser and money to spend following retirement - but need to curb my excitement and eagerness.

 

[ClaytonDJ]

Engine replacement a total non starter on commercial grounds. Boat isn't worth it. As said, suggest you look at others. Plenty of boats for sale in the Med, some will be in great condition with good paper trail and service history, others will be unloved piles of junk. You need to look at lots to build up a picture of what good looks like. And what the different models offer given your own expected use. Other factor is that most people don't keep their first boat very long, so buying one that's easy to resell is a great idea.

Thanks sticky fingers - sound advice which I will heed.

 

[ClaytonDJ]

Engine replacement a total non starter on commercial grounds. Boat isn't worth it. As said, suggest you look at others. Plenty of boats for sale in the Med, some will be in great condition with good paper trail and service history, others will be unloved piles of junk. You need to look at lots to build up a picture of what good looks like. And what the different models offer given your own expected use. Other factor is that most people don't keep their first boat very long, so buying one that's easy to resell is a great idea.

My preference is a Sealine S28 or Fairline Targa 29/30/33. You're right there are a lot of boats for sale in the Med - and I do need to buy something that will be reliable and not burn up my retirement lump sum.
My understanding is that diesel has to be my choice over petrol, twin engines over single, EU-VAT paid status and ideally comprehensive records/evidence of servicing and maintenance carried out.
Is there a tipping point where the number of hours on Diesel engines like the Mercruisers or Pentas make it not worth considering even if evidence exists of servicing/maintenance?

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Diesel for sure.

I'd pick the Targa over the Sealine. And go for the 33, you get a lot more boat for a small increase in size.

Properly maintained, a diesel engine wil last a very long time. Outdrives are a different matter, prone to fragility and require regular and relatively costly maintenance (if done professionally). The tendency on older boats would be to skip maintenance which could / would lead to increased likelihood of failure. Boats of the age you mention are likely to have 800-1500 hours but there's no magic number. It's all dependant on that maintenance schedule, and proof that it was done on time every year (or whatever the required period is). Some outdrive schedules are two yearly eg bellows replacement.

 

[ClaytonDJ]

Diesel for sure.

I'd pick the Targa over the Sealine. And go for the 33, you get a lot more boat for a small increase in size.

Properly maintained, a diesel engine wil last a very long time. Outdrives are a different matter, prone to fragility and require regular and relatively costly maintenance (if done professionally). The tendency on older boats would be to skip maintenance which could / would lead to increased likelihood of failure. Boats of the age you mention are likely to have 800-1500 hours but there's no magic number. It's all dependant on that maintenance schedule, and proof that it was done on time every year (or whatever the required period is). Some outdrive schedules are two yearly eg bellows replacemen

 

[ClaytonDJ]

Can I ask why diesel over petrol - os it engine longevity, maintenance costs and economy?
I am also viewing a boat with a Mercruiser 350 Mag petrol engines in it that has 600 hours on it - should I also avoid these engines or just petrol in general?

 

[Seastoke]

It all depends what you ie fuel how you use the boat, as with outboards you get more cabin space and the engines can be changed easy. There is no red diesel in Spain. Kashurst off forum used to keep his sealine in Torry, send him a pm
The broker in Torry is helpful.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

If it's an outboard boat then will deffo be petrol but the boats the OP mentioned are all sterndrives. Fuel costs are a factor but less so in Europe where diesel and petrol are similar prices, consumption of petrol boat will be higher than diesel equivalent though. Petrol availability may be a problem, check your local marina, you don't want to be lugging it in 20L jerry cans from a supermarket. Diesel less susceptible to dampness affecting reliability. Also easier resale.

 

[ClaytonDJ]

It all depends what you ie fuel how you use the boat, as with outboards you get more cabin space and the engines can be changed easy. There is no red diesel in Spain. Kashurst off forum used to keep his sealine in Torry, send him a pm
The broker in Torry is helpful.

I'm exploring buying a berth in Sotogrande - 6 nautical miles from Gibraltar which I gather is where folks go for their VAT-free fuel.
From there I will gently cruise up and down the coastline - not a speed merchant (at 62 I'm after a more gentle serene time at the helm).
I'm advised that diesel engines are easier to work on so leaning that way.
Looking at a S28, Targa 30 and Sea Ray 350 in Torrevieja - couple of different brokers but 3 Marins are all within a stone's throw of each other.

Interested in hooking up with anyone who is or has kept their boat in the Med. Is 'Kashurst' still registered on this form?

 

[Sticky Fingers]

@kashurst they're talking about you!

 

[ClaytonDJ]

If it's an outboard boat then will deffo be petrol but the boats the OP mentioned are all sterndrives. Fuel costs are a factor but less so in Europe where diesel and petrol are similar prices, consumption of petrol boat will be higher than diesel equivalent though. Petrol availability may be a problem, check your local marina, you don't want to be lugging it in 20L jerry cans from a supermarket. Diesel less susceptible to dampness affecting reliability. Also easier resale.

Definitely looking at inboards so diesel appears there way to go. Have a Mercury 125hp petrol outboard on my RIB in Conwy so very familiar with lugging 20l cans of fuel around.
Sotogrande Marina has both petrol and fuel - and Gibraltar has VAT free fuel.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Sounds good! Keep us posted...!

 

[Neil1300r]

I'm exploring buying a berth in Sotogrande - 6 nautical miles from Gibraltar which I gather is where folks go for their VAT-free fuel.
From there I will gently cruise up and down the coastline - not a speed merchant (at 62 I'm after a more gentle serene time at the helm).
I'm advised that diesel engines are easier to work on so leaning that way.
Looking at a S28, Targa 30 and Sea Ray 350 in Torrevieja - couple of different brokers but 3 Marins are all within a stone's throw of each other.

Interested in hooking up with anyone who is or has kept their boat in the Med. Is 'Kashurst' still registered on this form?

The fun is in the looking. See as many different types as you can, to see what layout works best for you. Just bought a Sealine S34 having spent over 6 months looking at various boats

 

[ClaytonDJ]

Seen a 1995 Fairline Targa 38 for sale in Getxo (Spain). Twin KAD 42s with les than 500 hours on the original engines. Spanish flagged but suspect it is UK owned (possibly Scottish boater). Will explore - but nowhere near where I need it to be (Sotogrande). Quite a road trip to transport it across Spain which may make it uneconomical in the round.

 

[ChromeDome]

One big difference between diesel and petrol is safety. To me, and I've been in one exploding, inboards need to be diesel, and petrol needs to hang off the transom outside.
Another difference is the availability in marinas.

BTW outboards are extremely rugged.

Sterndrives aka Devils Whiskers, are the manufacturer's pension plan. Do you want to become a sponsor, starting off with something without a documented service history?

Do a search here or anywhere for Volvo ECU (engine computer box), not least for the KAD series. Very rare, many looking, Volvo not able to deliver for years. And expensive.

Have to agree: Why insist on risk, when there are so many nice boats for sale?

Spain: I went to view a Princess 35 in Barcelona a decade ago. "Original state" was an acronym for "no TLC since new" which, in combination all year sunshine and salt water had taken it's toll