Dan Tribe
Well-known member
A young lad at my club sails a high performance skiff type thing. He claims that because Boris said outdoor swimming is good, then he can go sailing because he spends more time swimming than sailing anyway.
It's official we can now go sailing again!
- Thread starter Seven Spades
- Start date
Burt1971
New member
FYI the RYA has stated in its guidance for boaters published today:
"Even though there is a clear distinction between what the law requires us to do and what the guidance advises us to do, these are unprecedented times that require unprecedented measures and in modern times considerable personal sacrifice. The RYA calls on all recreational boaters not only to comply with the regulations, but to act responsibly and to use their common sense by complying with the Government’s guidance to help fight the spread of the virus.
If significant numbers of people are seen to be taking part in recreational boating or going to their boats for whatever excuse they can think of while the general movement restrictions are in force then the Government might see fit to introduce a specific prohibition on recreational boating. Given that regulators are often much more reluctant to lift prohibitions than they are to impose them, recreational boating is likely to be able to resume more quickly if it is not specifically prohibited."
So they are saying "comply with the regulations" (which they have to say of course), then they imply that those regulations allow boating but only because there is not actually a specific prohibition against it, but then they effectively say "but if lots of you go and do it, then the Govt might decide to put in place a specific prohibition, so better that you exercise restraint otherwise we could have a much more difficult path back to full access further down the track"
So it looks pretty tricky if you are a marina owner or sailing club. You must be worried to be seen to encourage people to do something that has not been specifically allowed by the Government or official body like the RYA, in case you later get criticised or sued. But then like any business or charity you also need to keep the lights on and be responsive to your customers and the Govt should want that. So I'd guess that many will re-open over time once they have taken practical steps e.g. hygiene and social distancing. This may mean that, like supermarkets, they monitor numbers or people coming in and out, regularly clean anything that people might touch with disinfectant etc. As long as they can show that they have taken steps as recommended by HSE etc and have not been unthinking about the way they have opened up, then that is some defence against the regulators, critics or litigants. They may want to send around updated Ts & Cs with "no liability" clauses. But it is a risk for them, so some may well say "its just not worth it... yet".
The lack of clarity has lead to the critics of the Government (witness all day on R4) complaining about how the Govt has been unclear etc. But it seems deliberate. The UK Govt does not want to be prescriptive and tell people what to do in a heavy handed way, as it fears that beneath the surface of your average Brit is someone who doesn't like being told what to do. For each Govt critic who says that the Govt. "hasn't been clear" (and one has to be sympathetic to the Police because it must be v difficult to enforce), there will be someone else who will complain "the Govt should not boss me about and tell me not to do something that effectively has no risk". In France, which it seems was similarly poorly prepared as the UK for the virus at the outset and was ahead of it in terms of timing of infection, a more prescriptive approach seems to have coincided with very low approval ratings for Macron.
So the Govt is saying "use your common sense", and RYA is echoing that. And would agree with this general approach, as think it treats us as grown ups and encourages caution. In you heart of hearts you will know if you're taking the mickey or not, and so will the authorities.
BTW the guidance from RNLI has not been updated, but as of last week they were saying "While you are allowed out for daily exercise, we do not recommend that this exercise is on or in the sea. Our charity’s lifeboat service is still available but every time a lifeboat crew is called to an incident, it puts additional pressure on RNLI volunteers and other front line emergency services as well as potentially exposing them to COVID-19... We know people who live at the coast still want to exercise by the sea, but when you do this, please think of the potential impact of your actions on RNLI lifeboat volunteers and other emergency services. While you could be fully competent and never needed to be rescued, by going out on the water you could encourage others who are less proficient to take part in similar activities."
"Even though there is a clear distinction between what the law requires us to do and what the guidance advises us to do, these are unprecedented times that require unprecedented measures and in modern times considerable personal sacrifice. The RYA calls on all recreational boaters not only to comply with the regulations, but to act responsibly and to use their common sense by complying with the Government’s guidance to help fight the spread of the virus.
If significant numbers of people are seen to be taking part in recreational boating or going to their boats for whatever excuse they can think of while the general movement restrictions are in force then the Government might see fit to introduce a specific prohibition on recreational boating. Given that regulators are often much more reluctant to lift prohibitions than they are to impose them, recreational boating is likely to be able to resume more quickly if it is not specifically prohibited."
So they are saying "comply with the regulations" (which they have to say of course), then they imply that those regulations allow boating but only because there is not actually a specific prohibition against it, but then they effectively say "but if lots of you go and do it, then the Govt might decide to put in place a specific prohibition, so better that you exercise restraint otherwise we could have a much more difficult path back to full access further down the track"
So it looks pretty tricky if you are a marina owner or sailing club. You must be worried to be seen to encourage people to do something that has not been specifically allowed by the Government or official body like the RYA, in case you later get criticised or sued. But then like any business or charity you also need to keep the lights on and be responsive to your customers and the Govt should want that. So I'd guess that many will re-open over time once they have taken practical steps e.g. hygiene and social distancing. This may mean that, like supermarkets, they monitor numbers or people coming in and out, regularly clean anything that people might touch with disinfectant etc. As long as they can show that they have taken steps as recommended by HSE etc and have not been unthinking about the way they have opened up, then that is some defence against the regulators, critics or litigants. They may want to send around updated Ts & Cs with "no liability" clauses. But it is a risk for them, so some may well say "its just not worth it... yet".
The lack of clarity has lead to the critics of the Government (witness all day on R4) complaining about how the Govt has been unclear etc. But it seems deliberate. The UK Govt does not want to be prescriptive and tell people what to do in a heavy handed way, as it fears that beneath the surface of your average Brit is someone who doesn't like being told what to do. For each Govt critic who says that the Govt. "hasn't been clear" (and one has to be sympathetic to the Police because it must be v difficult to enforce), there will be someone else who will complain "the Govt should not boss me about and tell me not to do something that effectively has no risk". In France, which it seems was similarly poorly prepared as the UK for the virus at the outset and was ahead of it in terms of timing of infection, a more prescriptive approach seems to have coincided with very low approval ratings for Macron.
So the Govt is saying "use your common sense", and RYA is echoing that. And would agree with this general approach, as think it treats us as grown ups and encourages caution. In you heart of hearts you will know if you're taking the mickey or not, and so will the authorities.
BTW the guidance from RNLI has not been updated, but as of last week they were saying "While you are allowed out for daily exercise, we do not recommend that this exercise is on or in the sea. Our charity’s lifeboat service is still available but every time a lifeboat crew is called to an incident, it puts additional pressure on RNLI volunteers and other front line emergency services as well as potentially exposing them to COVID-19... We know people who live at the coast still want to exercise by the sea, but when you do this, please think of the potential impact of your actions on RNLI lifeboat volunteers and other emergency services. While you could be fully competent and never needed to be rescued, by going out on the water you could encourage others who are less proficient to take part in similar activities."
doug748
Well-known member
Can't help I'm afraid, my winter base has been in Cornwall recently. I always found Plymouth Boatyard and Marina (ex Shore Store) the best people to deal with, though I don't know how they handled the present business.
.
syvictoria
Well-known member
This is the Broads Authority's current take on the matter:
"In light of revised Government guidelines issued on 10 May, the Authority is urgently consulting Defra (Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs) tomorrow morning (12 May) to seek clarification regarding how this is interpreted in the Broads, in particular whether private boaters are able to use their vessels on the waterways from Wednesday 13 May onwards.
In the meantime, the UK Government has updated their general guidance on what you can and can't do as of Wednesday. Whilst the advice is still to stay at home as much as possible, from then onwards you will be able to leave your home and drive to exercise or spend time outdoors multiple times a day.
This means that members of the public can now drive to access public spaces such as footpaths and cycleways within the Broads as long as they follow all of the conditions around social distancing from people that are not within your household. There is no limit on the distance that is acceptable to travel for exercise or to access outdoor space, however only day trips are permitted.
Angling is also specifically named as an acceptable sport from 13 May.
Please bear with us whilst we confirm what the guidance entails regarding paddle and water sports. We aim to issue more comprehensive information tomorrow.
We continue urge people to take care to follow guidelines and respect social distancing. Plan ahead to ensure the safety of you and those around you and try to avoid areas that may attract lots of people.
Thank you."
"In light of revised Government guidelines issued on 10 May, the Authority is urgently consulting Defra (Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs) tomorrow morning (12 May) to seek clarification regarding how this is interpreted in the Broads, in particular whether private boaters are able to use their vessels on the waterways from Wednesday 13 May onwards.
In the meantime, the UK Government has updated their general guidance on what you can and can't do as of Wednesday. Whilst the advice is still to stay at home as much as possible, from then onwards you will be able to leave your home and drive to exercise or spend time outdoors multiple times a day.
This means that members of the public can now drive to access public spaces such as footpaths and cycleways within the Broads as long as they follow all of the conditions around social distancing from people that are not within your household. There is no limit on the distance that is acceptable to travel for exercise or to access outdoor space, however only day trips are permitted.
Angling is also specifically named as an acceptable sport from 13 May.
Please bear with us whilst we confirm what the guidance entails regarding paddle and water sports. We aim to issue more comprehensive information tomorrow.
We continue urge people to take care to follow guidelines and respect social distancing. Plan ahead to ensure the safety of you and those around you and try to avoid areas that may attract lots of people.
Thank you."
Seven Spades
Well-known member
Why do they think that different rules would apply to people canoing, sailing or motor-boating on the broads than to those on bikes or walking. No one is seeking advice about cycling which has to be far more dangerous than boating. Thousands of cyclists end up in A&E every year yet no one banned cycling it is utterly mad.
Tomaret
Active member
Well, I do now! Although that doesn’t mean I’ll actually be doing all those things.I suggest that only those who agreed with the point of this thread can resume sailing!
Tomaret
Active member
Boris bikes, Ted sailed - 50 years ago priorities might have been different. just be thankful that Cameron isn’t still in No 10.
tsekul
Member
Sharky34
Well-known member
Blame motorists.
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Quite: take your boat out to go fishing?
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Having read all this I am glad I haven't bought a boat yet. I may not- always assuming I survive anyway.
Humblebee
Well-known member
Sorry, I'm not seeing that in the legislation you referred to.
Humblebee
Well-known member
Sleet yesterday, hailstones today... more danger from hypothermia, which I think you are implying, than covid!She said its OK to sunbathe up there though.
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
5.—(1) Except to the extent that a defence would be available under regulation 8(4), during the emergency period, no person may leave the place where they are living.
8.—(4) It is a defence to a charge of committing an offence under paragraph (1), (2) or (3) to show that the person, in the circumstances, had a reasonable excuse.
Sandy
Well-known member
I understand that this is Shore Store last year as the land has been sold for re-development.
Humblebee
Well-known member
And goes on to give examples of reasonable excuses in sub para 5. Boating and travelling to a boat would not, in my view, meet the requirements of sub para 4 for that to be a defence
longjohnsilver
Well-known member
Seems to me that some, but by no means all of them, were enjoying the extra powers they thought they had.
DennisF
Member
That is the previous guidance (Hence further down the page from the updated guidance). Their updated guidance from today states:
“As you will have seen, the latest measures to stop the virus spreading now include: staying at home as much as possible, limiting contact with other people, keeping at least two metres from others and washing your hands regularly.
Following the Government announcement on Sunday 10 May, we understand that from Wednesday 13 May, unlimited outdoor activity will be permitted in England and this will include all forms of boating.
The Prime Minister also indicated that people would be permitted to travel to other destinations in order to exercise, but that any activity will still need to be alone or with members of a single household and social distancing must be followed at all times.
In Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, the return to boating has not yet been confirmed. We will continue to monitor the situation and to press for a responsible and safe return for boaters in all parts of the UK.”
Hence, boating/sailing may be allowed, but of course marinas and port authorities will need to consider, and then update their guidance over the next few days.
Mark-1
Well-known member
I think you might have forgotten what we're disagreeing about.
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Humblebee
Well-known member
I don't think so.I think you might have forgotten what we're disagreeing about.
