I am amazed!

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Re: No way

Fair comment but some raggies are operating their boats on even more of a shoestring than we stinkies so it will still be painful. Anyone, I know how you guys hate to spend money!

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[MedDreamer]

Re: Kim - Diesel is clogging the Forum

Yes lets have red petrol !!!!

<hr width=100% size=1>The Dream is Alive

 

[gjgm]

well, lets just see if the speed limit on Windemere changes things that much. If your only two options are driving slower, or deciding to give up boating altogether, I suspect most will reluctantly accept driving slower. Similarly, the red diesel issue: you can still use your boat, but you may have to use it differently. Now if the average sportsboat use if 50hours, and cruiser 100 hours a year, I think alot of noise is coming from those who do cruise larger distances. In the macro economic discussion of EU wide fuel taxation levels, then those longer distance cruisers are suddenly a very very small minority. If they still get their cheap fuel in 2007, well done. But come off it -with 350mio fuel users (and thats before the enlarged EU), a few thousand boaters in the UK must be in never never land if they think they have a valid argument over leisure use.

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[KevB]

Re: No way

I think you are wrong in the amount of motor boaters who will give up if the duty rises to forecourt rates. I don't see myself as "less committed" having done 360 hours in the last 2 years but I wouldn't continue boating. I couldn't afford to do it with the enthusiasm I do now so wouldn't bother.

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[Deleted User YDKXO]

Re: No way

Thats a lot of hours so obviously you love your boating. Would you really give it up if fuel got more expensive? All I know is that all over the Med, fuel costs more than double what it costs in the UK and peeps still find the wherewithal to go motorboating and its not only rich peeps either. In fact, its so popular you cant find a berth!

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[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

Steve wrote –

Sailboaters just seem to see it as a way to get at us stinkies, without realising that it will affect the WHOLE marine leisure industry. Its not just about Fuel. It surely is up to the RYA and magazines to unite us all sensibly.

Do we? Oh, ok thank you for clearing that up.

They will be sniggering on the other side of their faces when they get too old and decrepit to sail and they find themselves looking at motorboats.

No old people sail?

Raggies have an excuse, for whatever reason they don’t particularly like us...
I suppose its a tribal thingy.

Do you know you are saying these things?


Steve you seem to have a real problem with sail boat owners. I have no problem with the majority (99.9%) of MOBO’s and I would personally hate to see the loss of red diesel. I will fight alongside motor boats for my right not to pay road fund on the water. But if sail boaters keep hearing stuff like this you might have trouble getting them onside when it starts get thrown towards the fan.

Time to remove the chip from your shoulder and realise that we ARE all in the same boat (pun intended). Many more nights are possibly spent on sailboats, using diesel heating, diesel stoves etc. We have to pay a fair proportion of our annual budgets on our sails and rigs (surprisingly not cheap), a doubling of fuel costs would hit us as hard, maybe not immediately like a MOBO but it would certainly affect boat usage in a year like last (very light airs, lots of motoring).

It is though, a new’ish phenomenon to have so many large fuel guzzling sports cruisers around the coast, I wonder how much this has actually contributed to the problem. Lets say 12 years ago, most MOBO where displacement or semi-displacement and used 1 gall per hour. The chancellor looking at the fuel consumption around the coast would have seen it as hardly worth the trouble to seek extra revenue.

I wonder what the sales figures of red diesel are like today, it has to be 20x more lucrative for the Government than it was 12 years ago, I wonder how much this problem is self induced from within the boating world itself. I am not trying to point fingers here, but it makes perfect sense dunnit? A lot of you guys use more fuel in a weekend cruising than an offshore trawler uses in a weeks fishing and they never turn the power plant off!


<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.topcatsail.co.uk>Top Cat Homepage</A>

 

[steverow]

Julian,

I apologise if I have offended you in any way...yes I do sometimes get a little steamed up....please do take it with a pinch of salt, no harm was meant.

The "style" of that post was really in response to some rather unpleasant "sniggering" messages read on other forums advocating that Red deisel should be abolished entirely, with the subtext that motorboaters might largely cease to exist to the betterment of the sailing fraternity.

It is sometimes difficult to read context and irony into e. mails so I have no idea whether the messages were also themselves tongue in cheek, but at the time I took them literally.

I do not dislike sailboaters, in fact I have a admiration for them.
Undoubtedly I would sail if I were fit enough to do it, and didn't have a liking for electronic gadetry, most of which would look hideously out of place on a sailing yacht.

I came back to boating just over two years ago, after a break of thirty years.
My early boating in the seventies was done in the solent skippering my bosses Nelson.
I am staggered at how partisan it has become these days. I remember that everybody "seemed" to get on then and people were a lot more polite.
I think we are generally less tolerant these days...me...becoming a grumpy old man I'm afraid.

You may be right in that the gas guzzlers have contributed to the problem.
For me with a Semi Dis boat, twin Perkins, I use about 8 galls an hour. I prefer to travel at a modest speed and enjoy the view.
If the fuel costs were to rise significantly it would unfortunately, with a wife, son (and girlfreind), budgie, tortoise and terrapin to provide for, totally price me out of the hobby.

Steve.






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[robind]

How about approaching the French boaters to join with us in organising a proper blockade! they are the experts . If they could get the price of their diesel down to that of ours they might have some encouragement in assisting us. Anybody speak french? know of any magazines in which we could state our case? Kim maybe you do?

Rob

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.rejuvanu.com>RejuVanu</A>

 

[JPGruntfuttock]

Steve,
I am a confirmed "Raggie" and was taken aback by your initial comments, in fact I was going to reply that in all my sailing I have sustained boat damage from both Mobos and sail coming alongside ineptly, but both life threatening events involved criminaly driven motorboats. Thus I am very wary of stinkies until I can see how competent they are.

But your courtious response to Julian has quite disarmed me. In addition it reminded me why I looked at this forum in the first place, it was because I could not credit the frankly, distasteful, smug satisfaction of some "raggies" as you would have us, at the thought of stinkies coming under a lash they (mostly) escape. It is the principle not the extent of consumption, in my view, all power to all of those who seek the freedom of the water, whatever boat they sail in.

Peasmold





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[Guest]

Post deleted by danfoley

 

[longjohnsilver]

Are you suggesting he nicks my much loved feathered friend?!!

Just wait until you're within firing range! /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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[steverow]

I feel I should point before getting seriously embarrassed (or SWMBO reads the message), that the "girlfreind" in question is my Sons' "Stacey"who spends the vast majority of her life at our house..hope that clears that up..phew!!

Steve.


<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by steverow on 22/03/2004 23:59 (server time).</FONT></P>