Boatfolk - Bangor (NI) Fuel

[Fire99]

Hi all,

Here's another interesting saga here in the tropics of Bangor. Due to the whole Brexit / EU trade agreement, Northern Ireland were no longer allowed to use Red diesel in private boats from October 1st 2021.
So here at the marina in Bangor, the fuel became white and the prices became regular pump prices + 'marina extra, since they aren't able to sell it at supermarket prices'.
Well, little did some of us know that since October 1st 2021, there has been a mechanism here to discount marine fuel for private vessels by 40% to keep the prices somewhat in line with the agreed 60/40 split for Red in the rest of the UK..
All ok. The reseller (i.e. Boatfolk) just has to fill out a form (which I found from HMRC in about 5 minutes) and put it into practice, so the marina basically claims back the 40% through HMRC. Well the marina here deny this mechanism exists and basically so far have refused to action it.. They won't allow tankers to refuel private vessels in the harbour, which they do with all the commercial vessels etc, so the private Mobo owner either a) suffers paying top rate pump, and some. b)becomes their own private smuggler of fuel in cans. c)Has to leave enough fuel in the tank to get to Scotland or IOM and refuel there..

Boatfolk may serve their customers well in England (I have no idea one way or the other) but here in Bangor it's not really looking very accommodating. As far as I can see of course.

Edit - I think the issue for the private Mobo owner, using tankers in the harbour would also be that the commercial folk receive Red diesel which we cannot use and if they supplied white, I doubt the fuel supplier would want to run the 40% discount scheme for the benefit of a single boat owner. Just thinking aloud here..

 

[dunedin]

Hi all,

Here's another interesting saga here in the tropics of Bangor. Due to the whole Brexit / EU trade agreement, Northern Ireland were no longer allowed to use Red diesel in private boats from October 1st 2021.
So here at the marina in Bangor, the fuel became white and the prices became regular pump prices + 'marina extra, since they aren't able to sell it at supermarket prices'.
Well, little did some of us know that since October 1st 2021, there has been a mechanism here to discount marine fuel for private vessels by 40% to keep the prices somewhat in line with thed 60/40 split for Red in the rest of the UK..
All ok. The reseller (i.e. Boatfolk) just has to fill out a form (which I found from HMRC in about 5 minutes) and put it into practice, so the marina basically claims back the 40% through HMRC. Well the marina here deny this mechanism exists and basically so far have refused to action it.. They won't allow tankers to refuel private vessels in the harbour, which they do with all the commercial vessels etc, so the private Mobo owner either a) suffers paying top rate pump, and some. b)becomes their own private smuggler of fuel in cans. c)Has to leave enough fuel in the tank to get to Scotland or IOM and refuel there..

Boatfolk may serve their customers well in England (I have no idea one way or the other) but here in Bangor it's not really looking very accommodating. As far as I can see of course.

Edit - I think the issue for the private Mobo owner, using tankers in the harbour would also be that the commercial folk receive Red diesel which we cannot use and if they supplied white, I doubt the fuel supplier would want to run the 40% discount scheme for the benefit of a single boat owner. Just thinking aloud here..

Sounds like Bangor Marina / Boatfolk are playing "silly bu##rs" if what you say is accurate.
Whilst never had to do so in practice, this 60/40 scheme for yacht white diesel definitely exists - according to what HMRC told CA and RYA. Try a Google and see what you can find to put under their noses.
Or assuming you are an RYA member, speak to RYA NI as i have always found them very helpful and very knowledgeable.

 

[Fire99]

Sounds like Bangor Marina / Boatfolk are playing "silly bu##rs" if what you say is accurate.
Whilst never had to do so in practice, this 60/40 scheme for yacht white diesel definitely exists - according to what HMRC told CA and RYA. Trya Google and see what you can find yo put under their noses.
Or assuming you are an RYA member, speak to RYA NI as i have always found them very helpful and very knowledgeable.

Many thanks.. I've raised this now to the marina and the berthing association (BA), and the BA confirm this exists etc and has been put to the marina manager, which so far has produced zero fruit..
Good point about the RYA... I'll certainly raise it with them. We as private boat owners aren't able to 'go solo' and do the 40% ourselves so we rely on the marina offering a good service. which as I explained to the marina is beneficial to them too. Currently fuel sales at the marina don't exactly appear to be frequent. If they implemented the 40% duty reduction, I know personally of a number of large mobo's that combined in a single fill-up each would probably buy at least 10,000 litres, which would increase sales, probably allow the marina to buy fuel at better rate, and subsequently the price may come down a few pence more and then we (I for sure) would probably buy even more... And so the circle of sales continues..

 

[Hunterlees]

As a Bangor berthholder you learn something every day!

 

[Seastoke]

They might be claiming it , surely they are breaking the law if they were not charging taxes the tax man would be on it so they are not doing there books right contact head office.

 

[Mr Googler]

You’d put red in your tank on the IOM which would be no issue due to the 60/40 split…unless you got dipped I suppose but then you can prove why.

What a mess

 

[dunedin]

This from the Cruising Association seems to be relevant - typically comprehensive and in depth rather than a light read, but para 2 (d) seems to refer https://www.theca.org.uk/system/fil...xcise Notice 17 - Red Diesel in NI 280921.pdf

Not a new scheme toget 60/40 on white diesel in NI - surprised taken so long to get flagged at Bangor

 

[Fire99]

This from the Cruising Association seems to be relevant - typically comprehensive and in depth rather than a light read, but para 2 (d) seems to refer https://www.theca.org.uk/system/files/Cruising Association Guidance Document relating to HMRC Excise Notice 17 - Red Diesel in NI 280921.pdf

Not a new scheme toget 60/40 on white diesel in NI - surprised taken so long to get flagged at Bangor

Yeah so it seems. It's funny here I think because the marina itself just went to road fuel pricing immediately and said nothing, and there was a lot of confusion here as to what happens regarding Red, with all kinds of scare stories etc, I don't suppose anyone thought there was a facility to do it. I think the Berthholder Association here is mostly sailing boats so maybe they were less impacted or were already sourcing lower quantities of fuel elsewhere.
For the past two years I've been refuelling as part of my trips which have tended to start in Scotland but now we know.. Personally I think it's a bit of a disgrace that it's been left this way.

 

[Fire99]

As a Bangor berthholder you learn something every day!

Wish I'd become aware of it 2 1/2 years earlier when it was implemented.

 

[RD60]

Wish I'd become aware of it 2 1/2 years earlier when it was implemented.

Unfortunately BF NI just don’t seem to care about implementing the HMRC fuel relief guidelines.
Visitors should be warned that they should not expect a 60/40 split on fuel in Bangor. (Or working showers).

 

[dunedin]

Unfortunately BF NI just don’t seem to care about implementing the HMRC fuel relief guidelines.
Visitors should be warned that they should not expect a 60/40 split on fuel in Bangor. (Or working showers).

Have you raised with the local and GB / Group managers of Boatfolk to get that confirmed? Hopefully if pointed out they will fix.

Otherwise, I am no expert in these matters, but I would have thought that some local paper or politician could raise a bit of adverse publicity to help persuade them - the combination of the NI Bxxxx impacts, and a GB based company not offering the same 60/40 deal to NI customers that it does in GB would attract interest.
Or perhaps try RYA NI as mentioned earlier.

 

[Fire99]

Have you raised with the local and GB / Group managers of Boatfolk to get that confirmed? Hopefully if pointed out they will fix.

Otherwise, I am no expert in these matters, but I would have thought that some local paper or politician could raise a bit of adverse publicity to help persuade them - the combination of the NI Bxxxx impacts, and a GB based company not offering the same 60/40 deal to NI customers that it does in GB would attract interest.
Or perhaps try RYA NI as mentioned earlier.

It's been raised with the marina manager / harbour master a number of times. The Berthholders Association has been on to him about it.. Which to date has got zero results. It does seem (and this is a perception) the Northern Ireland marina operates a bit nomadic compared to the English marinas. It's a little world of its own. I don't know if anyone has pushed head office in England.

 

[dunedin]

Representation

 

[Fire99]

Representation

That's great.. Many thanks for the link. I'll pursue it..

 

[Falcoron]

Surely if the HMRC states that a seller of fuel for private craft has a duty to declare that he is supplying such, has to pass on the discounts applicable as required by law? Not that i know what the laws are, I'm asking as an interested party as my boat gets put back into water this week after being on hard stand while i restored her, with tanks full of red that was in the boat when i purchased over 3 years ago.

 

[Fire99]

A little update. I spoke to the boss of the RYA in Northern Ireland, who have apparently spoken to Boatfolk and it appears it is purely a commercial decision. Boatfolk are not legally obligated to offer the reduced duty fuel and apparently Boatfolk are fully aware of the HMRC scheme but choose not to do it (for commercial reasons).
I can only speculate but here in NI Boatfolk appear to run things to the absolute minimum of their expenditure and generally squeeze the berthholders to pay fees etc well in advance (see a previous post on this) so I would imagine any scheme where they have to foot the bill and claim back from HMRC later won't appeal. Looking at their apparent Private Equity business model and their public accounts, that would put more weight to the argument.

So basically, yes they could offer it but don't. So if you're buying diesel from Bangor, NI, look at around 20pence per litre above forecourt pump prices.

 

[Seastoke]

Is there somewhere close that does it.

 

[Fire99]

Is there somewhere close that does it.

That, I don't know yet. I've tried in the past to incorporate refuelling with passages in Scotland but that's not always practical.....if you don't want to go to Scotland and stay within Northern Ireland waters.