Do PLBs ...save lives....regularly...? Or...?

[Tranona]

Yes, you can find examples of situations where PLBs have or might have made a difference between life and death, but you need to look behind the bald statistics to find out the circumstances. I suspect that very few involve leisure sailing boats in UK coastal waters. What feeds the fear and therefore sales of these devices is the lack of any firm data on which to base a rational decision. Actually in "statistical" terms such events are insignificant and not measurable. For example there are no records of the number of "real" activations, either in terms of absolute numbers, related to the number in use, never mind the type of user or circumstances surrounding activation.

The devices are now so relatively cheap and those who convince themselves the dangers are real seem happy to pay the price.

 

[Mark-1]

What feeds the fear and therefore sales of these devices is the lack of any firm data on which to base a rational decision.

Very much this.

If it summons help immediately then there's a clear benefit over mobile phone and HH VHF. However overwhelming false alarms have added an unspecified chunk of delay so most likely Mobile phone and especially VHF are a better bet in busy areas. Two way comms is essential, rather than a nice to have.

Nobody will be happier than me when and if that balance changes, or if that balance has already changed.

Clearly in truly remote situations the VHF and mobile become largely useless and PLB/EPIRB become essential.

 

[Tranona]

Very much this.

If it summons help immediately then there's a clear benefit over mobile phone and HH VHF. However overwhelming false alarms have added an unspecified chunk of delay so most likely Mobile phone and especially VHF are a better bet in busy areas. Two way comms is essential, rather than a nice to have.

Nobody will be happier than me when and if that balance changes, or if that balance has already changed.

Clearly in truly remote situations the VHF and mobile become largely useless and PLB/EPIRB become essential.

Perhaps I should have been clearer in that I don't think the issue is about false alarms, but rather the number of situations where such devices might be useful for leisure sailors in UK coastal waters is vanishingly small. Two reasons. First the number of people who actually fall overboard unexpectedly is tiny and second the number of people who end up in the water for other reasons such as boat sinking is now also tiny because of the effectiveness of other means of communication.

This does not mean that other categories of users such as fishermen, paddleboarders, canoeists, dinghy sailors might have different views on the value of PLBs.

 

[Mark-1]

Perhaps I should have been clearer in that I don't think the issue is about false alarms, but rather the number of situations where such devices might be useful for leisure sailors in UK coastal waters is vanishingly small. Two reasons. First the number of people who actually fall overboard unexpectedly is tiny and second the number of people who end up in the water for other reasons such as boat sinking is now also tiny because of the effectiveness of other means of communication.

This does not mean that other categories of users such as fishermen, paddleboarders, canoeists, dinghy sailors might have different views on the value of PLBs.

Yeah, I hadn't even addressed the issue of whether you need *any* way to summon help. I know how poor my maintainance is and how clumsy I am so I conclude some method of communication in the event of a sudden sinking or falling off is useful to me. Again, I'm sure eating healthy would extend my life far more than comms round my neck when sailing solo!

 

[DinghyMan]

I used to make a lot of canisters for PLBs for use by divers, many of whom relied on their PLB as the only realistic way of calling for help - interesting mentions above of them possibly not working at wave height as feedback I've had over the years is that they work happily - but of course it may just be that I may not have heard back from the people who found out that they didnt work at wave height....

The sMRT SHIELD+ looks a similar idea to the Nautilus - Nautilus Marine Rescue GPS - Free to use, Diver Rated to 425 ft. | Nautilus LifeLine - which used to be a common sight on dive boats as it claimed to waterproof to 130m so didnt need a canister for most divers and is relatively cheap

 

[wonkywinch]

Thank goodness it's still a personal choice. If it's legislated, we'd be in the situation like airlines who must carry lifejackets, and demonstrate their use before every flight.

Even flying from the UK to Europe, you'd be hard pushed to find any body of water to put a short-haul aircraft onto. Yet all carry and demo lifejackets.

 

[Juan Twothree]

Even flying from the UK to Europe, you'd be hard pushed to find any body of water to put a short-haul aircraft onto. Yet all carry and demo lifejackets.

English Channel, Thames Estuary, North Sea......

 

[lustyd]

the number of situations where such devices might be useful for leisure sailors in UK coastal waters is vanishingly small. Two reasons. First the number of people who actually fall overboard unexpectedly is tiny and second the number of people who end up in the water for other reasons

You don’t have to be in the water to use a PLB. A boat in the Irish Sea, channel, or off Lands End would be out of VHF and mobile range and a PLB the better option. There are examples of rescues due to PLB in each of these locations. A PLB is identical to an EPIRB except for battery life and can be used as such.

interesting mentions above of them possibly not working at wave height

They do work at water level, the point was they don’t work underwater so an unconscious casualty wouldn’t be able to lift them to ensure the signal gets through or that the GPS gets a lock. My point was also that a conscious casualty may also need to lift the device in wavy conditions but they need to understand that and not be tricked by marketing which may suggest otherwise.
Many divers have surfaced too far from a dive boat over the years so they are certainly a useful device to have. These days a small InReach can be more useful to directly contact the dive boat, and with a Garmin dive watch full messaging functionality is possible. InReach have their own dive case these days which is handy too.

 

[Juan Twothree]

A PLB will work at wave height, as long as it has a view of the sky. The only thing really affected by wave height is the homing signal on 121.5, which can suffer reduced range to a small lifeboat, but the PLB will have sent a lat and long, so the search area won't be huge in any case, plus the strobe will be flashing.
And a helicopter searching won't be affected at all.

 

[Mark-1]

These days a small InReach can be more useful to directly contact the dive boat, and with a Garmin dive watch full messaging functionality is possible. InReach have their own dive case these days which is handy too.

And that has two way comms so you get an immediate launch because they know it's real. ...and no Antenna to hold out.

 

[boomerangben]

And that has two way comms so you get an immediate launch because they know it's real. ...and no Antenna to hold out.

Immediate once it’s been through Garmins coms centre, they’ve contacted the appropriate rescue coordination centre, assumed no miss communication of coordinates etc. unless you can text 999 on an Inreach or course. Oh annd once they’ve texted you back and you’ve repeated your distress call. And an Inreach won’t work unless it is clear of the water either.

I get the attraction of two way coms, I get the perception of a delay in PLB response.

There are many different means of raising the alarm and getting rescued quick. All have their advantages, all have drawbacks and all have a cost. We have the luxury of deciding for ourselves how much we spend vs perceived risk, we all have to realise that our chosen solution won’t be perfect. A PLB is a recognised part of the GMDSS network and is therefore part of the planned responses of the emergency services. As is DSC and possibly AIS. There are also SOLAS expectations of flares, lights, barrels of tar and so on. There are expectations and plans based on defined means of raising the alarm. Hopefully proprietary stuff like Inreach might become an integrated part of that too. Maybe they are already. But if you are determined that two way comms is vital, you are potentially dismissing other effective means of raising alarm. And once on scene, two way comms are potentially a distraction to the rescuing crews. Digital stuff is way over rated when it comes to getting eyes on the person in the water, even though a helicopter can home to within metres of a PLB (both the 406 and 121.5 transmissions, as well as Channel 16 and 70 and AIS, but not as far as I know an Inreach). A visual means of identification is far more effective for the last few hundred metres.

I also know for a fact that response to PLBs can be very quick

 

[Tranona]

You don’t have to be in the water to use a PLB. A boat in the Irish Sea, channel, or off Lands End would be out of VHF and mobile range and a PLB the better option. There are examples of rescues due to PLB in each of these locations. A PLB is identical to an EPIRB except for battery life and can be used as such.

That is entirely consistent with my observation. The can find examples of MOBs or vessels in distress where the outcome was good because of a PLB/EPIRB, but they are rare in relation to leisure craft and often as you point out in areas where other means of communication are absent. They are also areas where there is a low level of leisure sailing activity because of the relatively hostile environment. This combination represents a tiny proportion of the overall coastal leisure sailing activity in the UK.

The decision about what equipment to carry is individual and depends on their assessment of the risks associated with their type of sailing and location.

 

[Mark-1]

Immediate once it’s been through Garmins coms centre, they’ve contacted the appropriate rescue coordination centre, assumed no miss communication of coordinates etc. unless you can text 999 on an Inreach or course. Oh annd once they’ve texted you back and you’ve repeated your distress call. And an Inreach won’t work unless it is clear of the water either.

I get the attraction of two way coms, I get the perception of a delay in PLB response.

There are many different means of raising the alarm and getting rescued quick. All have their advantages, all have drawbacks and all have a cost. We have the luxury of deciding for ourselves how much we spend vs perceived risk, we all have to realise that our chosen solution won’t be perfect. A PLB is a recognised part of the GMDSS network and is therefore part of the planned responses of the emergency services. As is DSC and possibly AIS. There are also SOLAS expectations of flares, lights, barrels of tar and so on. There are expectations and plans based on defined means of raising the alarm. Hopefully proprietary stuff like Inreach might become an integrated part of that too. Maybe they are already. But if you are determined that two way comms is vital, you are potentially dismissing other effective means of raising alarm. And once on scene, two way comms are potentially a distraction to the rescuing crews. Digital stuff is way over rated when it comes to getting eyes on the person in the water, even though a helicopter can home to within metres of a PLB (both the 406 and 121.5 transmissions, as well as Channel 16 and 70 and AIS, but not as far as I know an Inreach). A visual means of identification is far more effective for the last few hundred metres.

I also know for a fact that response to PLBs can be very quick

You can text a contact on shore direct with the inreach so you have an advocate on shore to sort out a rescue. In my case that could be a direct call to Hayling Island Rescue, and/or an earnest 999 call to say "this really is real, please launch something". Academic since I don't have an inreach and I really don't want to pay a subscription which is the drawback of two way comms.

But yeah, there are plenty of options and we all make our bet. For me in the sort or situations I worry about I'll stick with mobile phone and VHF, hopefully there will be something better soon, or some new information that makes an existing solution seem like a better bet.

As Tranona says, it's unlikely to ever be needed so definitely a first world problem. (In dicey moments you couldn't prise me off the boat with crowbar.)

 

[lustyd]

Immediate once it’s been through Garmins coms centre,

In this scenario a diver will be contacting their dive boat rather than pressing the emergency button. Usually just out of sight so a GPS fix is all that’s needed and the dive boat will pick them up. Happens often in drift diving where divers end up separated.

 

[Roberto]

two way comms.

Another aspect probably less relevant to English mothertongue speakers than others (both on the distress and rescue sides), is clarity/efficiency of text communications wrt to voice. Writing yes/no after having read a written message on a display is quite different from understanding the spoken English of (many) radio operators, gone through radio interference, while in distress, etc; likewise, sending a position coordinates via text is a lot less prone to errors than reading them on a microphone. Remember a (Argentinian?) crew doing the NW passage had to summon help, they barely spoke English they had a satellite phone and did all by SMS, sixty/sixteen eighty/eighteen, rescuers might have ended in Patagonia.