DIY LiFePo4 installation - Don't do what I did (maybe) . . .

[Robi]

I have already blued my dosh on the Bluetti 180.

It ran our air fryer, instant pot-the smallest one-and boiled a 2KW kettle just like the mains. It worked a powerful commercial SDS power drill, again just like the mains.

I will report here when in use on the boat-when we get our 'Downsize' boat.

I was tempted after speaking with a pro high end shipwright who has installed-or overseen installation-on several vessels, plus speaking with a lady with a high end power cat who had one in use. Both were very complimentary about them.

Just wondering if you plug the units output into the boat shore power feed or the individual appliances into the unit?
Thanks

 

[rotrax]

Just wondering if you plug the units output into the boat shore power feed or the individual appliances into the unit?
Thanks

It is supplied with three charging leads.
A 220V with a UK three pin plug.
One for Solar input-needs to be over 24v.
One for 12-14v DC input from the engine alternator, via a cigar lighter socket.

The unit has two 220v sockets for 13A three pin plugs, a 12v DC outlet and several USB ports.

No doubt the unit could be plugged into a boats shore power inlet, but I believe users on the FB page dont to this, believing it is not best practice.

We shall plug the individual units we wish to use direct into the Bluetti unit.

 

[Sea Change]

One for 12-14v DC input from the engine alternator, via a cigar lighter socket.

10A max? That's pretty weedy tbh and I would consider it a significant compromise for most people.

No doubt the unit could be plugged into a boats shore power inlet, but I believe users on the FB page dont to this, believing it is not best practice.

I'm not sure why this is the case, I see it all the time with suitcase generators. Maybe @PaulRainbow could shed some light?

 

[Tranona]

I'm not sure why this is the case, I see it all the time with suitcase generators. Maybe @PaulRainbow could shed some light?

Not sure whether this is to charge the unit (just like plugging into mains ashore) or using it to charge the boat's house bank via the mains charger

 

[PaulRainbow]

10A max? That's pretty weedy tbh and I would consider it a significant compromise for most people.

If you're out camping, it's not an issue, IMO. If it's on a boat, it's a significant problem, especially if you're caning it with Instant Pots and air fryers. Without a serious solar array i'm struggling to see how this is feasible.

The expansion batteries aren't what you'd expect and are horrendously expensive.

Expansion battery options for ac180

806Wh BLUETTI B80 Expansion Battery | 806Wh

I'm not sure why this is the case, I see it all the time with suitcase generators. Maybe @PaulRainbow could shed some light?

Was pondering this when you posted. Connecting to the incoming shore power lead supplies power to the boat via the consumer unit, so you have MCBs, RCDs etc for additional protection, although one would reasonably assume it has it's own short circuit/overload protection and something like an RCD etc. Not sure if the onboard RCD would work, but not hard to test it and doubt it matters anyway.

It would wise to turn the calorifier and mains charger off.

 

[rotrax]

If you're out camping, it's not an issue, IMO. If it's on a boat, it's a significant problem, especially if you're caning it with Instant Pots and air fryers. Without a serious solar array i'm struggling to see how this is feasible.

The expansion batteries aren't what you'd expect and are horrendously expensive.

Expansion battery options for ac180

806Wh BLUETTI B80 Expansion Battery | 806Wh



Was pondering this when you posted. Connecting to the incoming shore power lead supplies power to the boat via the consumer unit, so you have MCBs, RCDs etc for additional protection, although one would reasonably assume it has it's own short circuit/overload protection and something like an RCD etc. Not sure if the onboard RCD would work, but not hard to test it and doubt it matters anyway.

It would wise to turn the calorifier and mains charger off.

Nail, head Paul.........................

 

[Moodysailor]

I contacted my insurer, they came back with an initial reply.
FWIW, I'm currently third party insured only as the boat is a refit project and is ashore.

"Provided the upgrade and installation of lithium battery system is undertaken by suitably qualified contractors in line with the manufacturer's recommendations, the changes will not affect your policy terms or conditions"

I can understand why third party insurance is also affected - a fire caused by a faulty installation could easily damage other boats or property leading to a claim.

I've asked if my qualifications and experience are acceptable, I'll let you know....

 

[noelex]

Nigel Calder is extremely well regarded for good reason.

Look up his articles in Professional Boat Builder magazine. You can read previous issues for free using the link below:

https://www.proboat.com/issue-library/

 

[Neeves]

I think (I could be wrong), the Bluetti caters for expansion...

You might well be correct, it would be logical.

If you built your own you could remove, say, the inverter and add a bigger one, change circuit breakers etc, selling the one now deemed too small on ebay. You don't necessarily need a bigger battery. Can you do the same with a Bluetti? It seems unlikely its so simple or neat (as it might if you (or your chosen professional) are doing the work.

I don't know.

But it will be interesting to hear the experiences of those that have invested.

I built my own power station - its not as neat as the Bluetti but I can work on the unit comfortably, its all in a big steel box, sits outside the house, solar panels on the roof. The concept was I could take the device and install in our new yacht. But we are not at that stage and use it to power our kitchen. The inverter is too small. It does not allow us to use the induction hob at full power - but when I started my project I was not thinking of induction hobs, nor air fryers (what's wrong with gas?). Now of course we want to use the induction hob with no restrictions, run a kettle and the air fryer simultaneously, bake bread etc, power the washing machine - suddenly the options are decidedly attractive. I am sure that when I replace the inverter we will find more uses. But should I buy a big inverter to do everything or a smaller one (but bigger than the original) that still restricts how many appliances we can run, simultaneously. The availability of free power (ignore the capital cost) opens new opportunities you never thought of, bigger deep freeze, AC. Currently we cannot run the washing machine nor fridges, as well as the air fryer etc etc - but if we schedule the catering equipment we can cook all our food and entertain - for free and our power bills have been decimated. Having 'free' power changes your horizons.

And this is just the domestic demands - adding on the yacht demands, AP, windlass, power winches, chart plotter etc etc - and this is where different technical demands become applicable - in case of failure.

Jonathan

 

[PaulRainbow]

Nigel Calder is extremely well regarded for good reason.

Look up his articles in Professional Boat Builder magazine. You can read previous issues for free using the link below:

https://www.proboat.com/issue-library/

As i said, journalist.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I've said pretty much that, more than once in this (and other) threads. It's a mess.

FYI, i do have several different editions of the ISO, the earlier ones that had separate editions for AC and DC and the later combined ones. I have studied them and work to them where practical.

I've worked on ISO standards in an entirely different area, but one useful part of those ISO standards is that there is a section about compliance, usually at the end of the standard.; it was a mandatory part of the standard. It's basically a checklist of things that have to be in place to comply. The standards I was interested in were software-oriented, but I'd imagine that practical standards such as those discussed here would have a similar section; it's a fairly obvious thing to do.

 

[rotrax]

I've worked on ISO standards in an entirely different area, but one useful part of those ISO standards is that there is a section about compliance, usually at the end of the standard.; it was a mandatory part of the standard. It's basically a checklist of things that have to be in place to comply. The standards I was interested in were software-oriented, but I'd imagine that practical standards such as those discussed here would have a similar section; it's a fairly obvious thing to do.

Exactly. I worked for an ISO Bioscience Company for a short while.

My job was in the packing department. We sent out research materials-Proteins, Enzymes and blood products for Scientific Reasearch. At three tempreture levels, as the products needs and wellbeing required. Ambient, 2-8 degrees C, minus 20 degrees C. The latter required the use of dry ice and very expensive insulated containers. The ISO complience extended even here.

A tiny vial of gubbins cost about 400 quid.

Getting it wrong was expensive............................

 

[chriscallender]

I've worked on ISO standards in an entirely different area, but one useful part of those ISO standards is that there is a section about compliance, usually at the end of the standard.; it was a mandatory part of the standard. It's basically a checklist of things that have to be in place to comply. The standards I was interested in were software-oriented, but I'd imagine that practical standards such as those discussed here would have a similar section; it's a fairly obvious thing to do.

I've also worked on standards, not ISO but fairly hardware related. It was pretty much as you say. As well as developing the requirements themselves, a set of tests was standardised as well in an annex and passing all the tests was considered to be evidence that the device complied with the standard.

I'd imagine most standards are the same, with some definitions of the practical measures/recommendations of things to check that will demonstrate that you comply with the standard.

My guess here is that insurance companies don't know (or probably care so much) about the technical details. Their reason for wanting a professional installation is that a professional installer is someone for the boat insurer to go after to recover any losses (and that person has a major problem if they don't have their own professional indemnty inurance and that happens - like no roof over their head any more).

 

[rotrax]

10A max? That's pretty weedy tbh and I would consider it a significant compromise for most people.

I was aware of this at purchase.

However, it is pretty easy to cut the cigar lighter male end off and replace with something to carry more current. In our case, to provide a better connection. I hate cigar lighter sockets!

Most users seem to be 'off grid' self build campervanners. The cigar lighter works for them when driving to their next destination.

Most have Solar, so charging can be effected that way. Again, 10A max input.

Our use will be at end of day, cooking a meal with modern electric items. Charging devices during the day is a nice plus. We will have a reasonable solar array. Shorepower charging will, of course, be welcome if available.

We expect it to have enough in it after a day of solar or house battery input to be able to cook our food, operate 240v equipment, charge devices etc. It operates while being charged, so extending the time available.

As I have said, 'real world' use will be reported on when we have downsized.

 

[PaulRainbow]

I was aware of this at purchase.

However, it is pretty easy to cut the cigar lighter male end off and replace with something to carry more current. In our case, to provide a better connection. I hate cigar lighter sockets!

Is the 10A max charging from 12V only limited by the cigar lighter plug then, rather than something in the power station ? If there is no internal restrictions on input current from this input cutting the plug off and fitting something capable of carrying more current could potentially overload a small alternator.

I've read on some of the camper/caravan forums suggestions of fitting an inverter to charge from the engine battery to the mains input of the power station. Seems convoluted to convert DC to AC then back again to charge the battery, but, if it gives a higher charging current when running the engine it might be a consideration. Should only need a relatively small/cheap inverter.

Most users seem to be 'off grid' self build campervanners. The cigar lighter works for them when driving to their next destination.

Most have Solar, so charging can be effected that way. Again, 10A max input.

10A max here isn't a really an issue, unlike with engine charging, because you need a 500W solar panel to get 10A, which you're not likely to have anyway. Plus, it's charging all of the time the Sun is shining.

Our use will be at end of day, cooking a meal with modern electric items. Charging devices during the day is a nice plus. We will have a reasonable solar array. Shorepower charging will, of course, be welcome if available.

We expect it to have enough in it after a day of solar or house battery input to be able to cook our food, operate 240v equipment, charge devices etc. It operates while being charged, so extending the time available.

As I have said, 'real world' use will be reported on when we have downsized.

Will be interested to read how it works for you.

 

[rotrax]

Is the 10A max charging from 12V only limited by the cigar lighter plug then, rather than something in the power station ? If there is no internal restrictions on input current from this input cutting the plug off and fitting something capable of carrying more current could potentially overload a small alternator.

I've read on some of the camper/caravan forums suggestions of fitting an inverter to charge from the engine battery to the mains input of the power station. Seems convoluted to convert DC to AC then back again to charge the battery, but, if it gives a higher charging current when running the engine it might be a consideration. Should only need a relatively small/cheap inverter.



10A max here isn't a really an issue, unlike with engine charging, because you need a 500W solar panel to get 10A, which you're not likely to have anyway. Plus, it's charging all of the time the Sun is shining.


Will be interested to read how it works for you.

Yes, it will be good to see how it performs in the real world.

 

[Sea Change]

you need a 500W solar panel to get 10A,

I'm not following you here. We're talking about charging at 12v, so 10A = 120w, no?

 

[Sea Change]

I was aware of this at purchase.

However, it is pretty easy to cut the cigar lighter male end off and replace with something to carry more current.

That sounds a bit dodgy, because the connector contains the 10A fuse. What size cable is on that? You'd need to retain a 10A fuse, unless you happen to know that it's safe to put more power than that through the 12v input.

Most boats could be charging batteries at 30-50A. Not everybody needs that level of charging. My DC-DC charger is still in its box, but I have over 1kw of solar, so the 18A it provided wasn't significant.

 

[rotrax]

That sounds a bit dodgy, because the connector contains the 10A fuse. What size cable is on that? You'd need to retain a 10A fuse, unless you happen to know that it's safe to put more power than that through the 12v input.

Most boats could be charging batteries at 30-50A. Not everybody needs that level of charging. My DC-DC charger is still in its box, but I have over 1kw of solar, so the 18A it provided wasn't significant.

It is regulated and overload protected inside the unit. My changing of the cigar lighter plug is because they offend my mechanical/electrical best practice practical experience.

Bluetti sell a higher output charger that can be hooked up to an alternator for charging while an engine is running. This allows a faster charge.

FB Group reports are positive.

I dont think we shall need one as we will have Solar.

 

[PaulRainbow]

I'm not following you here. We're talking about charging at 12v, so 10A = 120w, no?

Was in a hurry, so i forgot to do the sums from the panel voltage to the reduction to charging voltage. Needs 14V+ to charge (not 12V) (slightly picky, i know). So, a 150W would be max for the 10A current, yet Bluetti state 500W max ???? Maybe they forgot do do the sums too