Dealing with unresponsive sellers - buying a boat

[William_H]

OP will never buy a boat that is turn key ready to sail away. There is always things to do to it to get it right for you. Then of course ownership means constant maintenance and modification./ However GRP is almost always robust no matter how old. Even osmosis is not really a big problem. it is every thing else that will need attention. I would say that OP primary concern is getting the boat to near his home. It says a lot for a boat on a trailer. (of course maintenance of the trailer is primary concern if he is going to tow it 100s of miles. So I suggest OP concentrate search near home. Expect to have to do a lot of work on the boat which can be a pleasure in it self. Yes it is a pain trying to sell a boat such that sellers might seem to give up on putting in the effort. ol'will

 

[Refueler]

Yes, I tried. There is a nice Pandora 700 (and a few other boats) in the Burntisland yacht club. But I haven't yet decided to see her (I just saw a few of them from a distance). Like you said: nobody likes time-wasters. Since, I am not sure whether I would like to purchase her, I don't want to waste someone's time. We need to have a respect to each other. But I saw the ad and she is a nice boat.

On the Scottish east coast there is a problem to find a mooring or berth. For example, a person from the Anstruther Harbour told me, there is a 10 years waiting list... :/ The closest place, I have found a mooring is the Burntisland yacht club (but perhaps, I missed a club or 2). But definitely, there is nothing for now near Dundee. There are moorings in Broughty Ferry but from the next Spring.

You need to go view a series of boats to build up an appreciation of what's out there good and bad ... its not unusual to view a number and then return to an earlier one to go deeper towards buying.
Unless you know exactly what brand / model of boat you want - you will need to view various.

Boats up to 25ft can be limited headroom but good sailing ... good headroom and moderate sailing but suited to cruising etc. Layouts of main cabin if split ... from double berth to singles each side ... berths running under cocxkpit .. etc etc.

Honest - STOP worrying about Seller ........ GO SEE boats ... decide what you really want ...

 

[zoidberg]

"...Decide what you really want...."

....is almost never what you buy.

 

[38mess]

The boat tranona linked is a little gem. I bet won't find a better boat for the money anywhere in the UK. I am really tempted to get it and sail it to West Wales in case I retire next year.

 

[Ceirwan]

Unfortunately the reality of selling a boat at the cheaper end of the spectrum is that you get a lot of time wasters, the cheaper it is, the more you get.

 

[rogerthebodger]

If the seller shows not inclination in wishing to sell I would just walk away

 

[Refueler]

Unfortunately the reality of selling a boat at the cheaper end of the spectrum is that you get a lot of time wasters, the cheaper it is, the more you get.

I think it would be fairer to say - the price range is within more peoples budgets and therefore the number of viewers goes up.

Second that too often sellers use other boats advertised price to set their own ... even in so much as thinking - my boats better than theirs .. xx equipment etc ... and setting price higher.

 

[Babylon]

Go see as many shortlisted boats as you reasonably can - it is the only way - take your time, winter is coming - you'll know immediately you find the right one.

Once you've bought it your real journey will start - learning about your boat, what needs doing and what doesn't (yet), how to repair, maintain, and renew - how to sail it, how and where to cruise, how to lay up in the winter.

If getting an affordable mooring is going to be a problem you might consider a trailer-sailer with a lifting keel - if you have somewhere close to home to keep it ashore - and something to tow it.

Good luck!

PS - If I were you I'd buy that Jaguar 25 in a shot! Really well laid out and lots of room for its size. Abundantly clear that it has been really well looked after, and buying through Boatshed will make your life a whole lot easier. Go and see it it, and get quotes for having it transported over by land.

 

[Ceirwan]

I think it would be fairer to say - the price range is within more peoples budgets and therefore the number of viewers goes up.

Second that too often sellers use other boats advertised price to set their own ... even in so much as thinking - my boats better than theirs .. xx equipment etc ... and setting price higher.

Its not just the number that goes up, its the number of people who don't really have any idea about the associated costs, berthing, getting it transported, etc. And they invariably drop out of the sale, or say they'll turn up and never contact you again etc.
Giving away a boat for free is even worse.

 

[madabouttheboat]

Trying to put myself in a seller’s shoes: If I was simply asked for more pictures, I would assume a not particularly serious buyer. It’s just a too generic request. If, however, I was asked for specific pictures. A request that maybe showed some knowledge on behalf of the buyer that they have done their research and wanted to see certain parts of the boat that maybe are problematic for the model, or had different options/layouts during build or even just showed a real interest in seeing more specific parts of the boat that my original ad hasn’t shown, or maybe questions asking about specific equipment levels, I would be more inclined to answer, particularly if the request meant me going to the boat to get the pictures. There are a lot of tyre kickers and dreamers when it comes to selling boats, and sometimes this is even worse at the bottom end of the market where anyone ‘could’ suddenly see themselves owning a boat because its cheap, without any real research, knowledge or thought. These people (the drunk ebayers, let’s call them) are often not really serious about owning a boat, but see one for sale that appears ‘affordable’ and suddenly imagine a life on the ocean waves full of bikini clad beauties.

 

[oldharry]

> often have to deal with lots of time wasters
Why is there so many time wasters? If boats were advertised properly, there wouldn't be a problem! A few days ago, I was inspecting Sadler Frigate 27. Had I known about: white mould inside, water in the bilge and wires in this water, dirt, no gas for the stove and non-operational GPS, I would have wasted neither my nor the seller's time... Fortunately, the boat was located nearby, just 60 miles or something. I wouldn't want to go 300 or 400 miles and see junk...

Why are there so many time wasters? Because there are too many dreamers: the perfect boat for next to no money.....

I think its unrealistic to ask a seller or broker for a lot more pictures and details of boats in this price bracket. It's a waste of time. The boat is there: if you are interested, go and look at it. In more remote areas, that means travelling, but consider that the seller too may have to travel quite a way to get the pictures you are asking for, with no promise that it will result in a sale.

I would also suggest that, with some notable exceptions, you ware unlikely to find a decent boat over around 24 feet in your price range. Yes, for £3-4k you could pick up a decent Trident 24, Corribee, Leisure or similar, but anything much bigger like a Centaur is going to have problems which will be reflected in the price.

In any case, as with Estate agent pictures, even the worst old heap of junk can be made to look inviting in a photo! The seller isnt going to send you pics of the faults - the bilge water, mould dirt etc any more than the Estate Agent shows pictures of the dry rot or the sewage farm or Motorway next door!

 

[Refueler]

Its not just the number that goes up, its the number of people who don't really have any idea about the associated costs, berthing, getting it transported, etc. And they invariably drop out of the sale, or say they'll turn up and never contact you again etc.
Giving away a boat for free is even worse.

But as I say - that is a consequence of being in the low price range bracket ... people start to think ... what about having a boat etc.

 

[Sadler25Owner]

Trying to put myself in a seller’s shoes: If I was simply asked for more pictures, I would assume a not particularly serious buyer. It’s just a too generic request. If, however, I was asked for specific pictures. A request that maybe showed some knowledge on behalf of the buyer that they have done their research and wanted to see certain parts of the boat that maybe are problematic for the model. . . .

On the other hand, I asked for more photos of a boat which was advertised locally with a single picture. The seller was asking top dollar price (about 150% of the ‘going rate’ for the particular model) and in return I was sent :
A picture of the bulkhead compass.
A picture of the depth sounder/log/wind instrument on the other bulkhead.
A part picture of a rusty Flavel Vanessa.
Two pictures looking forward from the cockpit.
An email answering some of my specific questions, no idea how old the rigging was and stating the sails were original (on a 1980s boat), although to be fair they did know the age of the engine. I didn’t go to view the boat as that would have involved a ferry crossing - I wouldn’t have minded paying the asking price if it had been a well-sorted boat, but the pictures suggested otherwise.

 

[Sailing steve]

Unfortunately the reality of selling a boat at the cheaper end of the spectrum is that you get a lot of time wasters, the cheaper it is, the more you get.

Timewaster is a very pejorative term.

It's frequently used by a vendor to detract attention from the fact that lots of people have gone to the trouble of viewing whatever item may be for sale and immediately dismissed whatever it is as a craftily misdescribed overpriced pile of junk.

 

[Irish Rover]

Timewaster is a very pejorative term.

It may well be, but call them what you like, dreamers or whatever, the reality is you do get time wasting enquiries from people who, almost definitely, are not currently in the market to buy a boat. The level of such enquiries increases as the advertised price decreases and are more likely to be received by a private seller than a broker.

 

[ylop]

It may well be, but call them what you like, dreamers or whatever, the reality is you do get time wasting enquiries from people who, almost definitely, are not currently in the market to buy a boat. The level of such enquiries increases as the advertised price decreases and are more likely to be received by a private seller than a broker.

the last time we bought a boat, I suspect at the inquiry stage for the boat we bought, the broker would have guessed we were time wasters/dreamers/tyre kickers. It would not have been an entirely unfair characterisation. We would even have said that ourselves. The boat was beyond the budget we had set. Even when we handed the keys back to the broker after viewing he would have been well within his rights to assume we weren’t likely to make an offer, as we said we will go and have a coffee and a think about it. I’m not sure who was more surprised 40 minutes later when we were back in his office asking if we could make an offer. I certainly didn’t expect to come home that night having paid a deposit on the boat!

 

[winch2]

....is almost never what you buy.

That's very true but its also huge fun as well. Began two years ago looking at oldish 30ft Moodys, Sadlers etc.. ended up with an a slightly newer 20ft Gaff? Its amazing how ones mind can change once the hands on knowledge is aquired. Couldn't be happier.

 

[Gixer]

It's frequently used by a vendor to detract attention from the fact that lots of people have gone to the trouble of viewing whatever item may be for sale and immediately dismissed whatever it is as a craftily misdescribed overpriced pile of junk.

This may be the case for some sellers.

A person who comes and has a look and quickly dismisses the boat as being 'not for them' is not a time waster in my view. The person who spends hours with you, gets taken for a spin, listens to you explaining the work done on the engine, stern gland, hull and rig, then offers you half the asking price because they don't like the curtains and cushions. That's a time waster, true story....

 

[Jim@sea]

Boats of that money - often stay for sale for long time and sellers get numb to it.

Brokers have no interest in such bargain boats - not enough profit for them.

To be honest - there are lots of boats in UK around the coast for that sort of money ... and in fact you should be able to find a reasonable condition one ... my Sunrider 25 would barely fetch that price in UK .. I've seen one or two at less ...
The sub 26ft older boats are really bargains now .. Colvic .. Westerly ... Snapdragon .... Mirage .... MacWester ... Yes you will see some sellers who think their boats are made of gold ... but there are many out there still good boats - but bargains .....

I remember in the 1970's some brokerage firms used the expression "Seriously for Sale" as in those days boats were going up in value nearly as much as houses so some boat sellers were not in a hurry. (in 1973 I bought a boat for £4400 and three years later sold it to a dealer for £8000)

 

[Jim@sea]

That's very true but its also huge fun as well. Began two years ago looking at oldish 30ft Moodys, Sadlers etc.. ended up with an a slightly newer 20ft Gaff? Its amazing how ones mind can change once the hands on knowledge is aquired. Couldn't be happier.

In 1979 I bought a Moody 30, one of the best boats I have ever had.