Damage from low oil pressure!

[rajjes]

It finally happened!

Due to complacency and carelessness from my side I fear I may have ruined my Beta 43HP (BV1903) which so far was running as sweetly as ever over these last 8 years of ownership! Eager to go sailing on a glorious day, I went out without doing any checks on the engine....(still kicking myself!). Motored out of the marina, sails up and had a great sail up and down the coast.

Returning back, I lowered sails and switched on the engine again to give it some use after a few weeks laying idle. After perhaps 10 minutes I heard the engine doing a slight knocking (tapping?) sound and looking at the instruments I saw the oil pressure light on! For some reason the buzzer did not work and I do not know how long the lights had been on.

I immediately switched off the engine and on checking the engine to my horror I found that the oil filter was leaking oil from a rusty spot which had developed without me noticing. I topped the engine with around 2 liters oil I had at hand and sailed back to the marina. I still had to motor (very slowly) the last few minutes to tie to the pontoon and the oil light came on again

I have now cleaned up the mess of oil in the bilges (collected almost the full capacity of 9.5 liters!) and serviced the engine with new oil and filters.

At least the engine is starting immediately but the tapping sound is persisting. The flywheel has very little (<1mm) fore and aft play but I do not know if this was there before or if indeed normal. I am now waiting for a mechanic to come and check it out, but would like any opinions on what to expect to brace myself?

For sure a LOT of lessons learnt on not taking the engine for granted!

 

[dankilb]

We've got a (new to us) Beta 50 of the same era, so feel your pain/concern. You have my sympathy! Can't say I can share any specific expertise on this, although the tapping does sound possibly like it's spun a rod bearing.

At least parts are readily available and apparently they're easy to work on (whether for you or for the mechanic - still helps).

It just depends whether anyone with more intimate knowledge of the mechanics of the engine could identify other source(s) for the noise? But I'd guess that, before anything else suffered badly enough from the starvation to get noisy (oil pump etc.), the bearings are still most likely I'm afraid.

No idea on the flywheel play either. You'd think that any noticeable play would be more about thrust bearings than rod bearings, though.

Edit - also depends whether it was identifiable as coming from the top or bottom of the engine?

 

[Skylark]

Doesn't sound good, I'm afraid. With virtually no oil in the sump/circulatory system, pretty much any metal to metal contact will run hot, gall and eventually seize due to lack of lube.

 

[MystyBlue2]

Same thing happened to a mates car, everything was fine exept crank bearings where shot, and the light was only on for less than 30 seconds as he was approaching a lay by.

Seems like it doesn't take much to cause serious problems. Hope everything is repairable and on the cheap side for you. Better still fingers crossed you've caught it early enough to be lucky and dodge any damage.

 

[Graham376]

Seems like it doesn't take much to cause serious problems. Hope everything is repairable and on the cheap side for you. Better still fingers crossed you've caught it early enough to be lucky and dodge any damage.

Sounds like there is damage. I would take the head and sump off, remove pistons and rods and take it from there. Could be big or little end knock (little end usually a lighter tapping than big end) and hopefully may not have damaged the crankshaft or mains.

 

[bikedaft]

it may be ok, or it may be goosed...

prev owner on our boat had much the same, oil flter unscrewed itself a bit, oil poured out, and buzzer came on. he stopped it fairly quickly i think. engine still fine 15 years or so later... (Yanmar)

get an engineer to listen to knocking noise ?big end/crank bearings? these bearings are not so hard to change in a car with sump off, usually a PITA in boat - may need engine out. but engine may be OK. engineer... sorry

 

[peterhull]

You are not alone!! Both my cousin and I were proud of our maintenance record but one day off the Cornish coast the sump plug on our gearbox worked loose
and some oil leaked from the gearbox. We anchored in Penzance and rectified it. The gearbox survived but it must have created some undue wear.. I think some vibration from the engine mountings contributed to the problem.. I think we replaced all the mountings after that. Yes yacht maintenance needs constant vigilance.

 

[Adrian62]

Sorry to say that does not sound good , if the taping is from the lower part of the engine then sounds like the bottom end bearing , if not run too long you might get away with new shells ,worst case crankshaft will need grinding .Without seeking its guess work , I would start by removing sump and having a look at the bearings. Good luck with it and lets hope for minimal damage .

 

[rajjes]

Thanks to all for the feedback so far. Actually the knocking noises (like a very rapid tick tick tick... not loud but they were not there!) seem to be coming from the upper part of the engine. Anyway, I understand that not much can be done until the mechanic takes a look at it and starts dismantling....

 

[garymalmgren]

Hi rajjes
I certainly hope that the mechanic finds something simple, or at least at the top end of the engine
Re:
to my horror I found that the oil filter was leaking oil from a rusty spot which had developed without me noticing.

By this do you mean that the oil filter canister actually rusted through? Very unusual!

gary

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

Sorry to hear this, it could have happened to any of us. You will not know until the mechanics had a good look at it. You may be lucky all depence on the design of the engine, on the other hand it may be a good opportunity to give the engine an overhaul and would then last for many years.

 

[Graham376]

Thanks to all for the feedback so far. Actually the knocking noises (like a very rapid tick tick tick... not loud but they were not there!) seem to be coming from the upper part of the engine. Anyway, I understand that not much can be done until the mechanic takes a look at it and starts dismantling....

It could even be a noisy tappet you hadn't been listening for before. Let's hope it's something simple.

 

[Moodysailor]

The noise from the top end could be the valve train. That is one of the last parts of the engine to get oil, so would have been starved of oil first, and longest.
I suggest to have a mechanic look over the engine. The valve train can be easily visually inspected, if that is damaged then the best and suggested course of action is to remove the engine and have it stripped and fully inspected.

There may be those who just say to fill it with oil and carry on, but to me that is would be at best a nagging doubt every time I used the boat, and at worst a major and seriously expensive failure at a later date - the latter rarely happen at a convenient time either!

 

[earlybird]

I wouldn't be too pessimistic. The film strength of modern oils is pretty good, esp. if the engine isn't being flogged. Some time ago, oil additive ads. quite often described "tests" whereby a car engine sump was drained and the car then driven a significant distance with no real damage. This in reality was more due to the oil itself,and fairly gentle driving rather than the additive.
If the oil light is now going off then that's a good sign. Kubota diesels are tough, low rated beasts. For peace of mind, can you temporarily fit a pressure gauge to see what't happening. Also, I'm sure Beta would give advice over the 'phone. Their number always seems to get through to a "hands-on" type of guy.

 

[wombat88]

As above, make sure you have oil and plenty of pressure, see what the mechanic says but don't rush into anything. Use it, watch the colour and consumption of oil and if nothing changes it may well last for ages.

I have done something similar in teh past, it never sounded the same but it lasted.

 

[Moodysailor]

Sorry, but I disagree with the above. I'm a time-served marine engineer with over 25 years in the business so I appreciate the comments above but I take the view of realism, not pessimism. If damage has been done it will not get better on it's own - it's an engine, not flesh & bone...

The only way to know for sure is to have it inspected by someone who knows what they are looking for, the rest is just speculation. Nothing wrong with that, but it needs to be understood that none of us have looked at the engine so have no idea if it will last another dozen years, or will let go the next time you leave the mooring. Only the OP can take the decision on that.

And sorry, but if you are relying on oil colour and consumption you may as well get a lucky rabbit's foot. Oil colour and consumption is effect, not cause and will do you no good when you need to motor off a lee shore!

 

[dankilb]

Sorry, but I disagree with the above. I'm a time-served marine engineer with over 25 years in the business so I appreciate the comments above but I take the view of realism, not pessimism. If damage has been done it will not get better on it's own - it's an engine, not flesh & bone...

The only way to know for sure is to have it inspected by someone who knows what they are looking for, the rest is just speculation. Nothing wrong with that, but it needs to be understood that none of us have looked at the engine so have no idea if it will last another dozen years, or will let go the next time you leave the mooring. Only the OP can take the decision on that.

And sorry, but if you are relying on oil colour and consumption you may as well get a lucky rabbit's foot. Oil colour and consumption is effect, not cause and will do you no good when you need to motor off a lee shore!

Yup I agree. They're tough, very long-lived, industrial engines - so best work on the basis that whatever is required to put it right will be worth it in the long-run. Equally, safer to work on the premise of 'what's broken?' rather than 'hope it's okay!'.

Of course, everything else is speculation at this stage. But it could be starvation in the top end. Top and bottom end sound notably different. Hopefully the mechanic will whip the rocker cover off (looks easy enough to access on our engine) and have a good look at that first.

It's tricky when it's spewed its oil in the process, but the other thing to look for is bearing material in the sump/oil. Problem is that - AFAIK - if a bearing has 'spun' first, it will only keep running a limited time before it damages the crank/rod (or even seizes entirely). So there are risks of more severe damage associated with 'run it and hope for the best'.

At least it's not an older engine with limit parts availability/expertise. If it needs some rebuilding, you get genuine Kubota parts and a skilled engineer with a workshop manual should have it back good as new.

 

[MystyBlue2]

Drop your oil and see if there is any particles of internal parts in the oil, if there is any "chunks" or large flakes then you definitely need an expert to take a look. Not all but in most cases you can get a clear picture of engine health by dropping the oil and inspecting.

Just like an outboard gearbox...Doing this may put your mind at rest a little instead of assuming your motor is completely ruined.

It's so easy to scare yourself into thinking the worst case scenario when alot of the time it's not and can save yourself that sleepless night.

 

[PaulRainbow]

When you run an engine out of oil the first things to go are the crank bearings, pretty much every time. If they are damaged running the engine is a very, very dangerous thing to do. What could be a simple "clean up" of the crank journals and a set of shells could easily turn into a new engine.

It may of course just be that it was short of oil and no damage was done, wait and see what the mechanic says.

 

[Moodysailor]

Drop your oil and see if there is any particles of internal parts in the oil, if there is any "chunks" or large flakes then you definitely need an expert to take a look. Not all but in most cases you can get a clear picture of engine health by dropping the oil and inspecting.

Just like an outboard gearbox...Doing this may put your mind at rest a little instead of assuming your motor is completely ruined.

It's so easy to scare yourself into thinking the worst case scenario when alot of the time it's not and can save yourself that sleepless night.

I think the issue with that in this case is that the engine has already been kind enough to remove the offending oil via a hole in the oil filter and now has nice clean stuff in it. Not much to tell on the new stuff yet, and any offending particles are likely gone.