Contacting other vessels

[Skylark]

I recently entered a marina with a small commercial vessel fairly close behind.

The vast majority of yachts entering usually turn to port towards the pontoons, however, this was not my intention. I wanted to turn to starboard such that I could then reverse up the pontoon channel as this makes berthing much easier.

I asked one of my crew to get the air horn and make the sound signal for “turning to starboard” shortly thereafter followed by “operating in astern”. The small commercial vessel immediately understood my intention and acted accordingly.

Don’t think that I would have had the confidence to do that if it was a recreational yachty up my chuff

 

[capnsensible]

This thread makes me wonder how many posters actually go out on boats...

Do people really think that bridge watchkeepers....pros...are blind stupid or drunk? That their own amateur efforts on the odd day away from land somehow trump those who have spent years doing it for a living? That a hand bearing compass is useless? That virtually every vessel doesn't have a screen with numbers showing it's position? That boats crash all the time?

Time to get out more.

 

[Wansworth]

Had a wonderful tome …two flag codes……all manner of messages could be sent using just two flags ,even childbirth instructions if I recall correctl….there’s always semaphore

 

[Stemar]

This thread makes me wonder how many posters actually go out on boats...

Do people really think that bridge watchkeepers....pros...are blind stupid or drunk? That their own amateur efforts on the odd day away from land somehow trump those who have spent years doing it for a living? That a hand bearing compass is useless? That virtually every vessel doesn't have a screen with numbers showing it's position? That boats crash all the time?

Time to get out more.

Round about the time I started sailing, I read a MAIB report. A small cargo ship was heading along the channel at night. A fairly typical crew - Russian skipper, Polish mate and a few Philippino seamen. Mate was on watch with a bottle of whisky to keep him company, captain asleep below. After a while the Mate gets bored, turns off the bridge alarm and goes to his cabin to cuddle his bottle. The first anyone else knew about it was when the ship steamed full ahead up the beach at Dungeness Point.

Outside the Solent, where I work on the basis that it's my job to keep out of their way, I assume that all ships are as well managed as that one. So far, I'm glad to say I've always been proved wrong, but it only takes one...

 

[doug748]

Forgot to add, further to #44.
I seem to get about one ship every other season where I have to take the initiative to avoid a collision as stand on vessel, out of maybe two or four channel crossings per year. Inshore it's very seldom a problem and I don't bother with AIS or the radio.

Last year was a good example. I heard a yacht calling a station with a name like: "Wester Horizon" or "Western Sunset" or "Western Allure" or some such name, he tried several times, It sounded like someone trying to raise a pal in leisure boat and I did not pay any attention to it but the name stuck vaguely in my mind.
Hours later I picked up an AIS plot that was heading for me, smack on. Sure enough it was the "Western Whatever" and it made no alteration at all. A complete ghost ship, about 200 tons; so they are out there.

.

 

[capnsensible]

Round about the time I started sailing, I read a MAIB report. A small cargo ship was heading along the channel at night. A fairly typical crew - Russian skipper, Polish mate and a few Philippino seamen. Mate was on watch with a bottle of whisky to keep him company, captain asleep below. After a while the Mate gets bored, turns off the bridge alarm and goes to his cabin to cuddle his bottle. The first anyone else knew about it was when the ship steamed full ahead up the beach at Dungeness Point.

Outside the Solent, where I work on the basis that it's my job to keep out of their way, I assume that all ships are as well managed as that one. So far, I'm glad to say I've always been proved wrong, but it only takes one...

Are there any reports of the hundreds of thousands where that doesn't happen daily?

 

[ylop]

Several people arguing against quoting lat/Lon - did anyone even suggest it, or has anyone ever heard it used? Feels like you are shouting at seagulls - nobody was planning to do that anyway.

Apart from which, how many people routinely sail recreationally in coastal waters constantly monitoring VHF? Crossing traffic lanes of course and entering/passing significant harbours, but elsewhere do you really listen to all that din and brouhaha?

Always. I’m not in the solent to hear all your chitter chatter but always have the vhf of ch16 and any VTS/HM channel. If it’s quiet it can be hours between calls, but if it’s busy more likely to be something relevant to me. I also almost always switch to the MSIB when it is announced even though I have a weather forecast in granular detail on my tablet.

That’s a good point.

A general question and not one pointed at you directly, but do you keep a radio watch when at anchor / over night?

I’ll confess that once the anchor is down and I’ve had a glass of alcohol, I tend to turn my radio off.

I don’t - like you my radio is switched off once the anchor alarm is set and engine shut down for the night. I may miss a distress call that in theory I could lift anchor and go to the assistance of but I could also miss some vital rest!

 

[Roberto]

how many people routinely sail recreationally in coastal waters constantly monitoring VHF?

I personally do; "constantly monitoring, ehm I do not spend my day staring at its display, just keep it turned on.
Also, apart from safety communications it often provides some action during dull days: rescue plane exercises, Navy ships asking people to steer away, helicopters evacuating injured old people from islands, etc etc.

 

[Halo]

I often sail across the outer end of the Tees channel. A combination of ais and vts allows me to see exactly which ships are coming in and out of the channel. Sometimes it makes sense to talk to a ship to make it clear that if they wish I will hold position rather than stand on across the end of the channel. So far every such communication has been appreciated and positive. Sometimes a ship will leave the channel early to keep out of my way.
Ais eliminates the main reason not to communicate by radio because both vessels know who they are talking to and relative position and speed

 

[Stemar]

Are there any reports of the hundreds of thousands where that doesn't happen daily?

No, and I'm not suggesting it happens daily, but similar things happen too often - annually being too often. I'm sure 99% of ships are competently run, but there's a small minority that aren't. Just enough for me to keep an eye on a give way vessel when I'm stand on until I'm sure it is giving way.

In fact, the only vessel that ever tried to run me down was a Challenge boat. Classic port/starboard incident with me on starboard, requiring a crash tack to avoid being rammed. I put in a CHIRP report, but Challenge went bust a few days later, so nothing came of it.

 

[Wansworth]

Way back I worked on a dredger onthe south coast and sometimes we came head on with a small coaster zig zagging along,the skipper used to get in a ‘tis……..not long after I landed a job as a deckhand and quickly promoted to mate through shear lack of anybody else,anyway the bloody steering gear sheared the coaster in zig zag…….it was that coaster,we did better when the motor went and we hand steerd,but keeping a look out was at times trying

 

[jamie N]

I've worked on 'ships' for 50 years and have never seen an unmanned bridge or OOW/Mate at anything less than 'fully able'.

 

[Wansworth]

I've worked on 'ships' for 50 years and have never seen an unmanned bridge or OOW/Mate at anything less than 'fully able'.

I have……skipper measuring his length on the wheelhouse sofa crossing the Celtic Sea

 

[[193211]]

Ch16 in the Clyde “yacht on my port bow, this is Warship ****”

Message repeats with increasingly exasperated tone…

 

[dunedin]

I've worked on 'ships' for 50 years and have never seen an unmanned bridge or OOW/Mate at anything less than 'fully able'.

Yes, but it seems to be surprisingly common for ships to sail straight into large chunks of land - bottom of Bute, both sides of the Sound of Mull etc. Not gear failure but let’s just say “watch keeping issues”.
And there are certainly ships (and plenty of fishing boats in transit mode) who have not seen sailing yachts and/or leave any alteration of course very late

 

[jamie N]

Yes, but it seems to be surprisingly common for ships to sail straight into large chunks of land - bottom of Bute, both sides of the Sound of Mull etc. Not gear failure but let’s just say “watch keeping issues”.
And there are certainly ships (and plenty of fishing boats in transit mode) who have not seen sailing yachts and/or leave any alteration of course very late

I guess that my experience has been affected by the stringent oversight of a client, where every one of the ships has been on hire, for a specific contract, which has been someone's 'project' 24/7 for quite a few months. Pretty much every project has been on strictly monitored 'dry-ships' as well; less fun but fewer stories....

 

[Refueler]

Yes, but it seems to be surprisingly common for ships to sail straight into large chunks of land - bottom of Bute, both sides of the Sound of Mull etc. Not gear failure but let’s just say “watch keeping issues”.
And there are certainly ships (and plenty of fishing boats in transit mode) who have not seen sailing yachts and/or leave any alteration of course very late

I am not disputing the fact that there are 'rogue' ships out there ... I myself was caught out by a feeder container ship in the Baltic ... I eyeballed him and kept watch ... he did not appear to alter ... so I did a long 360 to have him clear ...
I'm not brave enough to argue 4t of yacht against 10,000t of steel / containers.

Once he was clear and I could read his name of the stern - without 'bins' - I called him up and asked if he always ploughed on regardless .. that his passing close had literally destroyed my cabin ... (it was a bloody mess after his wake...)

He apologised and said that he had been tracking me on radar and CPA was 1+ cable ......

I replied - nice - but does he not think 1 cable a bit too close ??? and that such CPA is impossible for any yacht to determine ...

This incident was open sea conditions with plenty of sea room for him / me to manoeuvre. I had stand on position - but only as far as I am willing to go ... and as per rules - took action to avoid close 1/4's ...

But lets get onto 'dunedin' post quoted .... I am not actually pointing finger at 'dunedin' just using it as example.

Most yotties meet ships in restricted or limited waters ... and in so many cases - Sail over Power is not actually applicable. .... incident such as the daft yacht who stood on and ended up under the port bow of the Gas Ship inbound to Fawley ...

I am not saying yachts should always give way ... far from it ... but surely a desire to live another day should always be there ?

Some will quote crossing channel to France / UK ..... and ships failing to alter "enough ?" ..... let me give you an example of my own experience :

ST Linga .... 370,000mt ... deep laden proceeding up Eng Channel ... my draft is ~70ft ... we know that at times ships of such size have 'dredged' the straits .... usually we would lighter part cargo at Lyme Bay or Seine Bay ... but this time we were full laden to Europoort.

VHF comes alive ....

Tanker - this is yacht xxxxx - alter your course

Yacht xxxx - sorry mate - I'm restricted by draft and suggest you pass astern of me

(This is where he really becomes a plonker ...)

Tanker - this is yacht xxxx - we are racing - you must alter course

Yacht xxxx - you are racing to an early grave ... f**** off astern of me

At this point UK CG intervened and told the yacht to pass astern of me ...

Then CG gave me stick for swearing .... but in same vhf message said he understood my position.

The point I am making - you may only draw 2m ... but ships can draw such they have nowhere else to go .... once they enter approaches to and in TSS .... they are stuck ...

 

[Refueler]

I guess that my experience has been affected by the stringent oversight of a client, where every one of the ships has been on hire, for a specific contract, which has been someone's 'project' 24/7 for quite a few months. Pretty much every project has been on strictly monitored 'dry-ships' as well; less fun but fewer stories....

Most of my actual sea time - the ships I sailed were not dry.

I find it interesting that I read more 'incidents' since shipping became 'dry' than previously when we had bars on board etc.

One company - CGG Massy (Seismic) - we had by contract 1lt of Wine per day per man !! French Company of course.

The way this did not get out of hand ... the rule was you could only have the wine during meals. You could not take bottle to your cabin.

 

[jamie N]

Most of my actual sea time - the ships I sailed were not dry.

I find it interesting that I read more 'incidents' since shipping became 'dry' than previously when we had bars on board etc.

One company - CGG Massy (Seismic) - we had by contract 1lt of Wine per day per man !! French Company of course.

The way this did not get out of hand ... the rule was you could only have the wine during meals. You could not take bottle to your cabin.

Haha! My 1st diving company was from Marseilles, and was a similar amount of wine/day with meals, + we had an open bond. Because so many of the 'team' were ex-special forces and seen as responsible, I was treated to the same liberalism, and (of course) abused it royally until 'corrected' by a former SBS colleague!
Come the 80's, it all changed except on Italian barges and UK cable vessels, where one still had to 'dress' for dinner, FFS.