Contacting other vessels

[capnsensible]

Ais is great for ships names. As stated above , using vhf for collision avoidance isn’t optimal but I’ve done it a couple of times when I wasn’t sure. Something like “ you this is me I’m in your 11 o’clock x miles do you have contact?” Normally does the trick and a couple of times has resulted in a thank you . It’s always been used in plenty of time so I could manoeuvre if required. Having the ships name makes things easy but without it I would use vessel type.

11 o clock? We're you in an aeroplane?

 

[capnsensible]

Oh the fun in the Straitsof Gibraltar listening to MV s of different types calling each other to declare intentions, complain to each other, occasionally swear at each other. Overlaid with vessels reporting to Tarifa Traffic...or Tarifa Traffic calling vessels that hadn't reported. Plus the weather forecast in Englisj, French, Spanish and Arabic.
Plus fishing boat jokers playing bursts of music and the constant requests yo look out for small vessels carrying illegals.
Some posters made explode with indignation though....

 

[Refueler]

How would you define a close encounter? 5NM, 2NM, 1NM, 05.NM, ... ?
Different skippers will have different comfort zones - some might start considering taking evasive action as soon as they see a contact on the horizon whilst others are quite comfortable sharing the same waters with a cargo vessel 1NM (or less) away.
And if you can't make out the name of a cargo vessel 1NM away (with bins) AIS won't save you but a visit to Specsavers is advisable.

Sorry but thats the 'how long is a piece of string' question.

Close encounter distance depends on location .... amount of sea room .... personal concerns ..

 

[doug748]

In shipping world - its generally frowned upon to waste time trying to call up another ... that time should be used in avoidance manoeuvres.

Its also difficult to define which yacht someone is calling unless you are in location where very few yachts are ! Second - that many boats are not really listening to VHF ... it may be on - but unless a speaker is in cockpit - its unheard. Even DSC fails on this point.

I'm not keen on using radio either. Use it early and you are in danger of inflaming an innocent situation, use it later and you are wasting valuable time, esp if singlehanded.

Assuming AIS, I don't mind getting within .5 mile CPA of a ship that has altered for me, it's reasonable to assume he is not going to change course again and is on the ball.

For others I use a patent 15minute - 10 minute collision rule. For example in a 90deg crossing situation for a ship doing twice the speed of your sailing boat (say 12kts vs 6kts)...

At 15minutes to collision you are starting to pick up the bow wave of the ship. He my have been visible for 6 or 8 miles and his AIS may have told you he has not altered for you.
He is just over 3 miles away.
(You need to be prepared for a 90deg change of course at this point, which may mean starting the engine)
At 10 minutes to collision he is about 2 miles away and looming large. At this point (in practice a couple of minutes before) I alter onto the reciprocal of the ships course.

After change of course you watch him like a hawk for the next minute........this is the danger period when the watch officer may wake up and do something daft, soon you are passing fast and the danger is soon past as well. After the dodgy minute, even a dozy or drunk watchkeeper opening another bottle should not react, he would see you passing clear at 1 mile CPA.

.

 

[dunedin]

If like the OP you don’t have AIS, how would you predict a CPA of 300m for a ship 2-3 miles away? Asking for a friend…

As we have already ascertained, the OP needs to fit AIS, like we have
But thread had already broadened, and that was what I was commenting on rather than strictly post #1
And the same principle applies even with out AIS - assessing a potential future close encounter would be what I assumed was meant, as once already 200m or so then far too late to be reading names and calling on VHF.

 

[Refueler]

Question : Has using a hand bearing compass to ascertain steady bearing been forgotten ? Admittedly - we have the compass card swinging about ... but at least it will be a reasonable indication instead of wild guessing.

I have so far refrained from picking on a particular point - - but it has been repeated and is tbh - against all OOW's training.

Ship altering course just a single digit degrees. That only occurs when ship has plotted another at long range and plenty of water - such that passing distance result will be substantial.

OOW's are taught to make - BOLD and IMMEDIATELY RECOGNISABLE alteration to course as per rules - subject to restraints such as draft / TSS etc. But in those restrictive situations - rules dictate not to impede his passage. But he will use whatever room he has to ease the situation.

Most cases of yacht - ship meetings - OOW is not alone on bridge as it is near coast / TSS and other 'hazards' ....

 

[oldmanofthehills]

I suspect folk have regretted buying an AIS receiver, I know I kind of have.

I wish I saved the money and put it towards a transmit/receive AIS unit! AIS really is brilliant.

No regret at all

My batteries would not hold up if I had AIS transmitter on for long while under sail - I have even turned chart plotter of on long (for me) open water passages and just relied on VHFs inbuilt AIS and GPS
My wallet would not hold up if I bought every possible piece of navigational equipment

If they are blind drunk and playing table football they might run me down anyway, so I watch their AIS info and act accordingly

 

[Koeketiene]

Question : Has using a hand bearing compass to ascertain steady bearing been forgotten ? Admittedly - we have the compass card swinging about ... but at least it will be a reasonable indication instead of wild guessing.

Hold it there one minute...

In post #23 you state that it would be nigh on impossible to read a cargoships name using bins because not you're not standing on a stable platform.
And in #46 you want to ascertain a steady bearing using a hand bearing compass...

 

[Refueler]

Hold it there one minute...

In post #23 you state that it would be nigh on impossible to read a cargoships name using bins because not you're not standing on a stable platform.
And in #46 you want to ascertain a steady bearing using a hand bearing compass...

Read the post again ... I said the card would be swinging about ... I said a REASONABLE indication ....

But as an old fart on boats and ships - I suggest to you that reading a compass card is less hassle than trying to read ships name through bin's ...

 

[Refueler]

No regret at all

My batteries would not hold up if I had AIS transmitter on for long while under sail - I have even turned chart plotter of on long (for me) open water passages and just relied on VHFs inbuilt AIS and GPS
My wallet would not hold up if I bought every possible piece of navigational equipment

If they are blind drunk and playing table football they might run me down anyway, so I watch their AIS info and act accordingly

How much power do you think AIS Tx uses ???? Its miniscule !

 

[dunedin]

Ship altering course just a single digit degrees. That only occurs when ship has plotted another at long range and plenty of water - such that passing distance result will be substantial.

OOW's are taught to make - BOLD and IMMEDIATELY RECOGNISABLE alteration to course as per rules - subject to restraints such as draft / TSS etc. But in those restrictive situations - rules dictate not to impede his passage. But he will use whatever room he has to ease the situation.

I am sure you are right about the training and theory. But when under sail I have very rarely seen a ship making a “bold and immediately recognisable” alteration to course - except after the handful of cases where I have hailed on VHF them to clarify their intentions. Usually it has been a quite subtle change which was quite difficult to spot manually, but noticeable via AIS.
And yes also have and sometimes use hand bearing compass, but generally observing against a fixed point tells almost as much as a compass as to constant bearing or not.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I am sure you are right about the training and theory. But when under sail I have very rarely seen a ship making a “bold and immediately recognisable” alteration to course - except after the handful of cases where I have hailed on VHF them to clarify their intentions. Usually it has been a quite subtle change which was quite difficult to spot manually, but noticeable via AIS.
And yes also have and sometimes use hand bearing compass, but generally observing against a fixed point tells almost as much as a compass as to constant bearing or not.

I find that my ability to judge changing angles is more accurate than a hand bearing compass on a boat. You don't need the absolute bearing of the other vessel - merely that the bearing is unchanging, or drawing forward or aft. But I've always had good spatial judgement; I don't know if it's nature or nurture! I think it's nurture - it's simply that I trust myself to see quite small changes in angles. After all, a degree is twice the size of the sun or the moon, so judging a change in angle much less than a degree shouldn't surprise anyone.

 

[B27]

I find that my ability to judge changing angles is more accurate than a hand bearing compass on a boat. You don't need the absolute bearing of the other vessel - merely that the bearing is unchanging, or drawing forward or aft. But I've always had good spatial judgement; I don't know if it's nature or nurture! I think it's nurture - it's simply that I trust myself to see quite small changes in angles. After all, a degree is twice the size of the sun or the moon, so judging a change in angle much less than a degree shouldn't surprise anyone.

Putting a number to it is helpful when discussing the situation with crew.
The bearing is not the whole deal if you are both turning though, you can be spiralling in to a collision.

OTOH, a bloke I sailed with liked to wind people up saying 'that star's been on the same bearing for ten minutes, will we hit it soon?'

 

[Slowboat35]

I must say one of the most unrealistic, not to say fanciful ways of identifying a vessel is by quoting a Lat and Long.
It might be appropriate betwen warships on an exercise but what other vessel has the faintest clue of its Lat and Long at any time? This is surely the daftest way to try to call another ship?

And unless the sea is all but empty "sailing vessel four miles north of Goodwin lightship" is unlikely to attract much attention either.

Apart from which, how many people routinely sail recreationally in coastal waters constantly monitoring VHF? Crossing traffic lanes of course and entering/passing significant harbours, but elsewhere do you really listen to all that din and brouhaha?

 

[Buck Turgidson]

I must say one of the most unrealistic, not to say fanciful ways of identifying a vessel is by quoting a Lat and Long.
It might be appropriate betwen warships on an exercise but what other vessel has the faintest clue of its Lat and Long at any time? This is surely the daftest way to try to call another ship?

And unless the sea is all but empty "sailing vessel four miles north of Goodwin lightship" is unlikely to attract much attention either.

Apart from which, how many people routinely sail recreationally in coastal waters constantly monitoring VHF? Crossing traffic lanes of course and entering/passing significant harbours, but elsewhere do you really listen to all that din and brouhaha?

My sailing area is the Gulf of Valencia out to the Balearics. My VHF is on 24/7. As it has always been wherever I sail.

 

[jamie N]

Up in the wilds of Northern Scotland, I also turn my VHF off (GX2200) because of the perception of wasted power, when there's nothing else visibly around. I do have an AIS transmitter (McMurdo M10) which I keep on so my family know where I am, and an Echomax Active X reflector, which is great at alerting me that 'there's something out there'. I then turn on the VHF to see what it is, where it is and so on, if I can't get a mobile signal.
One of the most useful things is using Marine Traffic over the mobile network when inshore; it's often available even up here, and I can see pretty much every other vessel that might harm me.
I've never had to contact any other vessel though.

 

[Refueler]

I must say one of the most unrealistic, not to say fanciful ways of identifying a vessel is by quoting a Lat and Long.
It might be appropriate betwen warships on an exercise but what other vessel has the faintest clue of its Lat and Long at any time? This is surely the daftest way to try to call another ship?

And unless the sea is all but empty "sailing vessel four miles north of Goodwin lightship" is unlikely to attract much attention either.

Apart from which, how many people routinely sail recreationally in coastal waters constantly monitoring VHF? Crossing traffic lanes of course and entering/passing significant harbours, but elsewhere do you really listen to all that din and brouhaha?

Totally agree and was my point also in an earlier post ... where I suggested that even if VHF message heard - likely only half and person would not have at hand the info to confirm.

 

[Refueler]

My sailing area is the Gulf of Valencia out to the Balearics. My VHF is on 24/7. As it has always been wherever I sail.

Good ... but still doesn't change fact that a VHF call and identifying if its you being called is not as easy as posting on here !!

 

[dunedin]

Up in the wilds of Northern Scotland, I also turn my VHF off (GX2200) because of the perception of wasted power, when there's nothing else visibly around. I do have an AIS transmitter (McMurdo M10) which I keep on so my family know where I am, and an Echomax Active X reflector, which is great at alerting me that 'there's something out there'. I then turn on the VHF to see what it is, where it is and so on, if I can't get a mobile signal.
One of the most useful things is using Marine Traffic over the mobile network when inshore; it's often available even up here, and I can see pretty much every other vessel that might harm me.
I've never had to contact any other vessel though.

But then in remote Scotland you might be the only vessel in the vicinity of a Mayday and go sailing past leaving them to their fate.
Certainly I was the only boat to respond to one Mayday, from a kayak invisible to me 5 miles away.
Get a small solar panel and sort your power issue, then keep radio watch on 16.

 

[Minerva]

But then in remote Scotland you might be the only vessel in the vicinity of a Mayday and go sailing past leaving them to their fate.
Certainly I was the only boat to respond to one Mayday, from a kayak invisible to me 5 miles away.
Get a small solar panel and sort your power issue, then keep radio watch on 16.

That’s a good point.

A general question and not one pointed at you directly, but do you keep a radio watch when at anchor / over night?

I’ll confess that once the anchor is down and I’ve had a glass of alcohol, I tend to turn my radio off.