Chandlers latest update - bit sad

[webcraft]

I am confident I have done more singlehanded offshore sailing in the past 3 years than you WebCraft.

Why pick those three years? Touch of the selective data manipulation?

I have no desire to get into a p1ssing contest with you but if we are strictly talking about the last three years then . . .

May - Aug 2007 - Canaries - Madeira - Azores - Spain - Ireland - Scotland (Albin Vega, 27ft)

What you done in your Bav then?

- W

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Twister_Ken you may have a point but it wouldn't surprise me if they beat her. The level of respect for females can be almost non existent in that culture.

I work for a Company who employs security specialists to look after our assets and people. We are just North of Yemen at the moment. According to the security specialists the whole Somali area is getting out of hand and breading their own particular opinion across North Africa. A genuine state of anarchy in the true sense.

I would be very of wary of cruising by that area. Its not the Chandlers fault for being there. Jonjo4 not to have empathy for the Chandlers almost makes you as callous as their captors.

The time for the Government to pay up is now and ensure a safe extraction of them. How we solve this mess is a pressing issue of complexity that will get worse for sea farers in the area.

 

[jonjo]

I have a lot of empathy for the Chandlers, having sailed many miles to many foreign ports.

Of course you have, you are a fully subscribed member of that self indulgent, Western, white, middle class club.

At that time, the cruising community was of the opinion

Who cares about delusional group think?

These people seem to think is it acceptable for 0.000014% of the world's population to opt out of a productive lifestyle in the prime of life and then indulge in a permanent holiday while parading gross wealth, personal indecency and indolence right under the noses of 5 billion people struggling to feed their children.

And then you all engage in an internet coordinated tantrum when a handful of the impoverished 5 billion decide to grab a share of that wealth.

You people have no sense of history, the world has just experienced an a-typical 200 years. Pax Britannica followed by Pax Americana policed the world but now both countries are financially broken.

The world is wobbling while a new order is established and just now is the wrong time for white middle class luvvies to galavant around the oceans showering dollas and euros on the grateful natives. They are not grateful anymore and they have lost respect for western values.

 

[Blue5]

Sad

These people seem to think is it acceptable for 0.000014% of the world's population to opt out of a productive lifestyle in the prime of life and then indulge in a permanent holiday while parading gross wealth, personal indecency and indolence right under the noses of 5 billion people struggling to feed their children.

So owning a sail boat and wishing to to travel is parading gross wealth,.................. jeez you need to lighten up

 

[webcraft]

So owning a sail boat and wishing to to travel is parading gross wealth,.................. jeez you need to lighten up

Yes indeed - Jonjo, I presume you are going to sell the Bavaria and give the money to a suitable cause? Still waiting to hear whether you have done more offshore sailing in your ostentatious Bavaria than I have in my slightly less ostentatious Vega in the last three years - judging by your lack of response I guess you've lost that bet.

When we took our 'middle aged gap year' while parading our 'gross wealth, personal indecency and indolence' to all and sundry I carried on working at my normal occupation btw, as do many cruisers.

You really are a very long way up yourself aren't you? We might be able to see your feet with a powerful torch . . .

- W

 

[TheCrimsonVicar]

Of Pax Britannica followed by Pax Americana policed the world but now both countries are financially broken. The world is wobbling while a new order is established and just now is the wrong time for white middle class luvvies to galavant around the oceans showering dollas and euros on the grateful natives. They are not grateful anymore and they have lost respect for western values.

Personally I feel extremely sorry for the Chandlers (some may recall that I pledged £100 to Webcraft's appeal for paying the ransom) and feel that they are innocents caught up in something ghastly and beyond their control.
However, I do agree with the words above.
Since we defeated the spectre of communism the world has steadily become a more dangerous place and will remain so until the New World Order emerges.
As a nation we are no longer capable of protecting our citizens at home, let alone abroad.
Everyone should be free to follow their dreams, as the Chandlers were, but should realise that the world is a much more dangerous place than it was during the days of dominance by the Anglo-Saxon world.

 

[jonjo]

Jonjo, I presume you are going to sell the Bavaria and give the money to a suitable cause?

Don't mistake me for a communist!

I am talking about parading a wealthy life style under the noses of people in other parts of the world where GDP per head is a fraction of the UK.

Still waiting to hear whether you have done more offshore sailing in your ostentatious Bavaria

Well now my challenge was specific to solo offshore sailing, because I can win that. But I was actually responding to your assertion that Bavaria owners do not accomplish significant voyages.

Here's my solo log, all direct passages:

2007
Portsmouth - St Malo
North Brittany - Fowey
Fowey - Portsmouth

2008

Weymouth - Brixham
Plymouth - Portsmouth

2008 Autumn

Portsmouth - Plymouth
Falmouth - Kinsale
Baltimore - Fastnet - Falmouth
Dartmouth - Poole

2009

Portsmouth - Guernsey
Guernsey - Concarneau
Vilaine River - Port Houligan
Houligan - Benodet
Beneodet - Camaret
Camaret - Portsmouth

When we took our 'middle aged gap year' while parading our 'gross wealth, personal indecency and indolence' to all and sundry I carried on working at my normal occupation btw, as do many cruisers.

I have no problem with your gap-year venture because:

1 - It was clearly funded by your ongoing working life style in the UK, unlike the more typical liquidate and run cash-in merchants.

2 - You were cruising within the Euro zone. Infact I think you had a better travel experience than the ARC lemmings who are shepherded around the world encased in a metaphoric Budweiser bottle and associated alcoholic stupor.

 

[webcraft]

So owning a sail boat and wishing to to travel is parading gross wealth,.................. jeez you need to lighten up

Fair enough, you win your bet seeing as you did stipulate 'solo'. And the Bavaria jibe was just that - I have met several long-distance Bavarias, it is the sailor not the boat. You must have been a bit short of sleep on some of those passages. Why do you do it solo?

Luckily I have someone prepared to come with me - never really fancied singlehanding, although once or twice I have tried to talk myself into the Jester Azores just to see if I could do it.

Still don't think the Chandlers were being particularly flaunty or careless though - just unlucky after getting left behind by the Bluewater Rally. You seem to have a real hard-on for the Baby Boomers for some reason - is it just because you missed it by a smidgeon? There is no doubt that in many respects we are the golden generation, but that's just historical accident and this baby boomer for one is smart enough to realise that and be grateful. I worry about the world my granddaughter will grow up into.

- W

 

[Deleted member 36384]

...These people seem to think is it acceptable for 0.000014% of the world's population to opt out of a productive lifestyle in the prime of life and then indulge in a permanent holiday while parading gross wealth, personal indecency and indolence right under the noses of 5 billion people struggling to feed their children...

Anyone one can sell up and sail off if they wish and have the means. The inequality of wealth distribution in the world and the historical reasons for it don't matter a jot. The reasons for such inequality are complex issues and many of them precede 20th Century History, some of them by many centuries.

A new order, piffle, what was the old order? It seems to me from a historical context that there never has been an order. But there has always been wanderers. The lack of structure is what humans thrive on.

As a Brit I want my government to bring the Chandlers back. I also want my country to be dominant and strong. Both I fear are lost.

 

[jonic]

Of course you have, you are a fully subscribed member of that self indulgent, Western, white, middle class club.

And if you knew what other groups I have empathy for you would realise how absurd your comment is.

World cruising as a political statement, ha ha.

You remind me of Rik from the young ones. Hilarious keep it up.

 

[webcraft]

You remind me of Rik from the young ones. Hilarious keep it up.

If Jonjo is 12 years younger than me then that makes him the same age as Rik. They were difficult times . . .

- W

 

[jonjo]

You must have been a bit short of sleep on some of those passages. Why do you do it solo?

The hardest was Baltimore to Falmouth, 45 hours.

Most of those solo passages were for boat positioning prior to the swmbo flying out. Her sailing tolerance ceiling is 5 hours partly due to an errant nerve inside her heart which is due to be zapped at Papworth in Feb ( a day case would you believe ).

Still don't think the Chandlers were being particularly flaunty or careless though

They don't seem the flaunty types to me either, but in my exaggerated caricature of the western ocean wonderer I am trying to get folks to think. A western woman in a bikini in that part of the world could be regarded as indecent, that indeed would have been the case in our own society up until 90 years ago.

You seem to have a real hard-on for the Baby Boomers for some reason - is it

Spot on.

I am extremely angry and politicised about the systematic economic rape, pilage and destruction conducted by the 55-75 year old UK population. I am confident historians will rebrand them as the economic carpetbagger generation.

I don't expect my views to gain traction for another 10 years or until large UK cities experience regular winter blackouts.

 

[jonjo]

World cruising as a political statement, ha ha.

Consequence, not statement.

 

[Rum_Pirate]

Don't mistake me for a communist!

I am talking about parading a wealthy life style under the noses of people in other parts of the world where GDP per head is a fraction of the UK.

Hi jonjo4, welcome to the forum.

Why not discuss the article/subject on a logical basis rather than the current tack you are taking?

If not a Communist as you state then one must presume that you more inclined to be a capitalist.

Since you apparently own, berth and and run a 'Bavaria' you appear to have a significant amount of disposable wealth (in my view).

You critize individuals for as you state "These people seem to think is it acceptable for 0.000014% of the world's population to opt out of a productive lifestyle in the prime of life and then indulge in a permanent holiday while parading gross wealth, personal indecency and indolence right under the noses of 5 billion people struggling to feed their children.".
So in order to avoid doing this, you mainly sail in the little channel between England and France; seldom or hardly often out of sight of land ( a coastal sailor?) to avoid flaunting your wealth among the poor in the rest of the world?

Faffing about along the coasts in the channel is a little different to sailing across the Atlantic (ARC or otherwise) or around the world.

If you do indeed own a Bavaria you too are, as you describe it, a " fully subscribed member of that self indulgent, Western, white, middle class club".
I personally would add 'afluent' but hey ho each to their own.

On that basis IMHO (naturally) you have lost all credence in making your comments and critize yourself.
I wonder why you shoot yourself in the foot so many times?

If you want to take that type of stance that it appears you appear to want to take, try not to stand with your legs that far apart, as the posters here will have no hesitation of taking a running kick at your dangly bits.

 

[Chris_Robb]

I am confident I have done more singlehanded offshore sailing in the past 3 years than you WebCraft.

Is that because you cannot find any friends to sail with? Very sad post of yours - you should be ashamed.

 

[jonic]

Consequence, not statement.

Whatever...

 

[webcraft]

Saga Louts

I am extremely angry and politicised about the systematic economic rape, pilage and destruction conducted by the 55-75 year old UK population. I am confident historians will rebrand them as the economic carpetbagger generation.

I sort of get your point, but condemning a whole generation is a bit unfair. I've stayed on the periphery and been shouting doom since I were a nipper, but no-one listened.

Do you think they'll be stringing us up from lamposts in ten years? (That's one of the reasons I live where there are no streetlights )

- W

 

[jonjo]

Hi jonjo4, welcome to the forum.

I have previous form here.

If not a Communist as you state then one must presume that you more inclined to be a capitalist.

The bi-polar 20th. century has finished. These days is it politically legit to subscribe to capitalism but rant against globalism and the polarisation of wealth that has developed in western parts of the world over the last two decades. It is this polarisation of wealth that funds many early retirement ocean wonderers.

So in order to avoid doing this, you mainly sail in the little channel between England and France; seldom or hardly often out of sight of land ( a coastal sailor?) to avoid flaunting your wealth among the poor in the rest of the world?

Not quite. My sailing is my leisure time funded by money I earn and then spend within my country.

This is quite different to the carpetbagger generation I referred to above, who amassed unearned wealth through callous misdirection of Uk Government policy.

Then after 20 years they sense the party is over and that the economic horse is dying and won't respond to any more flogging, so they cash in and bugger off.

I wonder why you shoot yourself in the foot so many times?

I know who shot the UK economy in the foot, they are all now swinging at anchor on their Moodys and Hallberg Rassys in the Virgin Islands.

 

[jonjo]

Do you think they'll be stringing us up from lamposts in ten years?

That would be a touch harsh but I can think of a few who deserve it.

We'll get our own back through more subtle means e.g. devaluing their stored wealth. In fact it has already begun, a 20% Sterling devaluation is a good start.

 

[Major Catastrophe]

Don't want to rain on your parade Jonjo, but wasn't the whole point of the Chandlers inability to pay the ransom down to the fact their main asset was the Lynne Rival and they were cruising on a shoe string.

I hardly think they are wealthy as he is retired and doing what they planned to do in retirement.

"The Chandler's relatives confirmed that the couple's only assets were contained on their boat - Lynn Rival - and so there was no chance of any ransom demands being met by the hostages themselves.

From here: http://www.yachtingworld.com/news/428524/british-couple-confirmed-as-being-held-at-somali-stronghold