Buying my first sail boat!

[laika]

Back to most 40 footers with fin keels they manoeuvre pretty well. Within a week of practice under different conditions you will have most of it sorted. Just as important will be placement of fenders and making plans with your crew on coming along side. You can also talk to the marina staff and say you are inexperienced and they will give you a better birth if they can. I firmly say stick with the biggest boat you can afford so your wife will enjoy it.

The biggest boat on the OP's list was 14.4m. a 31' boat is forgiving if you get it wrong: It can be manually fended off or held against a pontoon or pushed away. Not so a 14.4m, probably with much higher freeboard. You already knew how to drive a boat when you got a 12m boat, as did I. My (long fin, no bowthruster, doesn't go back in a straight line) boat still took some getting used to. Isn't the bowthruster a red herring? Not knocking them, but surely it's best t learn not to rely on them? And it's not just the OP learning: his partner may be the only crew jumping off that 14.4m job t get the centre line on. Learning the basics in a 14.4m boat in a UK marina seems a recipe for disaster which really won't make the process enjoyable.

 

[dulls]

The biggest boat on the OP's list was 14.4m. a 31' boat is forgiving if you get it wrong: It can be manually fended off or held against a pontoon or pushed away. Not so a 14.4m, probably with much higher freeboard. You already knew how to drive a boat when you got a 12m boat, as did I. My (long fin, no bowthruster, doesn't go back in a straight line) boat still took some getting used to. Isn't the bowthruster a red herring? Not knocking them, but surely it's best t learn not to rely on them? And it's not just the OP learning: his partner may be the only crew jumping off that 14.4m job t get the centre line on. Learning the basics in a 14.4m boat in a UK marina seems a recipe for disaster which really won't make the process enjoyable.

14.4 was not my measurement and he did list boats below 40 but you have a point.

 

[ashtead]

I think with crew it’s the weight not length that matters. A 10.8 m boat can be pushed off and if you end up in a cul de sac (think jersey marina bowl ) can be manually walked round . A 12m boat might weigh twice as much and while it tends not to blow around takes more planning etc. You can back a 10m Bav say into a tight space and stop it quite easily 1m from the pontoon. Doing that on long heavy boat often with twin wheels further from the stern or say a centre cockpit hall berg etc takes more care. You also can have a simple drop main at 10m but by 12.8 many builders offer the in mast form which for a learner might be more of a risk . If buying initially go for a 5 year old mass market boat ideally with drop down bow thruster and self tracker like a Hanse or say a Bav cruiser with reasonably new kit but a few bits which might need replacement like batteries or some extra nav toys etc but are generally well set up and see what help and contacts the broker has for reliable trainers. Sadly many teaching sailing are perfectly balanced with chips on both shoulders so be very careful in selecting your chosen instructor and ask around for recommendations .

 

[ghostlymoron]

Buy a Centaur now, or anything under 30', sail the arse off it for the next 8 years. Sell it then and buy something else.

I bought a 40'er as my first boat, and the only grounds on which it was justified was that I was leaving now and didn't have 8 years in which to gain experience. 40' is too large in marinas, expensive to berth and higher maintenance costs.

If he's got 80 - 100k budget he doesn't need to compromise with a centaur so I'd get something about 35-38' for now, he could upgrade to a world cruiser when he retires. I think it's best to buy the boat that's appropriate at the time.
Ten years is a long time and needs change in that period. One of you could get tired of sailing or have a scary experience which leads to retiring from sailing in which case the dream is over.

 

[Paulfireblade]

Fantastic Thread which I have read with interest as I am considering buying a boat much sooner than originally planned due to the Covid restrictions on training. Fortunately I have an extremely experienced retired friend who has enjoyed helping me to learn navigation for my Day Skipper and I have sailed with on a charter boat.

With the risk of a second wave I think I would rather spend my time on a boat this Winter with one person I know rather than several strangers so perhaps now is the time to buy. The next question is size, My wife is showing an interest so it would be nice to have enough space and creature comforts without the boat being too unwieldy at close quarters but then the whole selling and buying process is not cheap so you want to be able to keep any boat for a few years especially as you are bound to have to spend money on it initially,

I might just have to read the thread again.

 

[ghostlymoron]

There are many routes into sailing, I did competent crew in Dartmouth to see if we liked sailing which was fun and had us hooked on getting a boat. I then did the theory courses and day skipper practical, flotilla holiday in Greece and was then lucky when a friend of a friend gave us a Leisure 17 in which we had loads of fun (as well as some dodgy moments) before chartering in Greece and getting a big boat in UK. I think I learned the most in our little Leisure 17.

 

[convey]

I think my line on it was the shame on missing out on so many experiences that could be had, if one had the money, rather than just buying the one and watching it depreciate. Then have to spend again to get it back up to scratch.

Since the OP appears not to have stuck around, I got the impression it was 9/10th status symbol, 1/10th boat.

But, I guess some people are "one woman guys" and marrying their schoolyard sweetheart; and others like to play the field before settling down.

If I had that money, I'd have 3 or 4 different boats, in different ports, each for different purposes ... and at least one for being on my own *without* the wife, like a cruising Dragon class.

 

[sgr143]

With the risk of a second wave I think I would rather spend my time on a boat this Winter with one person I know rather than several strangers so perhaps now is the time to buy. The next question is size, My wife is showing an interest....

Make your that your wife is as keen as you are (by which I don't mean you should both be super-keen, but just that your levels of keenness, from "nice to have, maybe we'll pop over to Cowes next week if it's nice weather" to "heavy weather sailing all the time, that's for me!" should approximately match) , or I can see this all going horribly wrong! One aspect of boat ownership that I hardly see touched on is the effects it can have on the dynamics of a married (or equivalent) relationship. It is a big and expensive thing to own and keep, and if the two people on a close relationship differ significantly in their approach to it, that has to be dealt with. Steve

 

[Concerto]

Make your that your wife is as keen as you are (by which I don't mean you should both be super-keen, but just that your levels of keenness, from "nice to have, maybe we'll pop over to Cowes next week if it's nice weather" to "heavy weather sailing all the time, that's for me!" should approximately match) , or I can see this all going horribly wrong! One aspect of boat ownership that I hardly see touched on is the effects it can have on the dynamics of a married (or equivalent) relationship. It is a big and expensive thing to own and keep, and if the two people on a close relationship differ significantly in their approach to it, that has to be dealt with. Steve

My wife suffers from travel sickness to the point of never being in the back of a car. She has been on my boat once whilst in the millpond smooth marina at Chatham. She sat in the cockpit and when I move from one side of the boat to the other, she decided it was too tippy and got off and went back to the car. She knows my passion for sailing and accepts it, she comments she likes time on her own when I am away. She also has little idea how much it costs me.

 

[sgr143]

My wife suffers from travel sickness to the point of never being in the back of a car. She has been on my boat once whilst in the millpond smooth marina at Chatham. She sat in the cockpit and when I move from one side of the boat to the other, she decided it was too tippy and got off and went back to the car. She knows my passion for sailing and accepts it, she comments she likes time on her own when I am away. She also has little idea how much it costs me.

Fair point! Allow me to adjust my argument to be something like "the two parties need to have compatible (not necessarily equal) levels of keenness".

 

[Wansworth]

My wife loves it when it’s rough,I prefer nice summery days,after thirty years she still has not mastered the bowline or making fast to a cleat,we are compatible as long as I don’t shout,I have taken up house improvements.

 

[convey]

My wife loves it when it’s rough,...

No need to boast about your sex life ... but lucky you. To still be able to keep up with her.

 

[Wansworth]

No need to boast about your sex life ... but lucky you. To still be able to keep up with her.

Think you have taken that out of context?

 

[Paulfireblade]

Make your that your wife is as keen as you are (by which I don't mean you should both be super-keen, but just that your levels of keenness, from "nice to have, maybe we'll pop over to Cowes next week if it's nice weather" to "heavy weather sailing all the time, that's for me!" should approximately match) , or I can see this all going horribly wrong! One aspect of boat ownership that I hardly see touched on is the effects it can have on the dynamics of a married (or equivalent) relationship. It is a big and expensive thing to own and keep, and if the two people on a close relationship differ significantly in their approach to it, that has to be dealt with. Steve

Thank you, for the advice and hopefully I have a plan. She is sufficiently intrigued by the lifestyle but I wouldn’t want to test her resolve with the boat healing over at a decent angle to get the toe rail wet so with my wife I envisage days away on the mooring or anchored up and pottering around the Orwell until she asks for more and when I want some fun I would go with an experienced friend.

Or I ditch the idea and carry on doing regular training/mile builders and charter with my friend and leave her at home which would undoubtedly be cheaper but the heart foolishly hankers after a boat of my own and working towards us getting further afield together.

Off to Chatham on a mile builder Saturday so that should be fun.

 

[Concerto]

Thank you, for the advice and hopefully I have a plan. She is sufficiently intrigued by the lifestyle but I wouldn’t want to test her resolve with the boat healing over at a decent angle to get the toe rail wet so with my wife I envisage days away on the mooring or anchored up and pottering around the Orwell until she asks for more and when I want some fun I would go with an experienced friend.

Or I ditch the idea and carry on doing regular training/mile builders and charter with my friend and leave her at home which would undoubtedly be cheaper but the heart foolishly hankers after a boat of my own and working towards us getting further afield together.

Off to Chatham on a mile builder Saturday so that should be fun.

It is a shame I am driving to Cheshire on Saturday as I would have suggested you come onboard Concerto and had a general chat face to face as you can get better information than written in a public forum. Do take a few minutes to look at Concerto, she is berthed in B4 just across from Elite's Spitfire, Spirit and Lightning. Also have a look at this PowerPoint presentation I made in January to a RYA conference to see how she arrived at her current condition.
https://wiki.westerly-owners.co.uk/images/3/3f/Concerto.pdf
If you are planning further visits to Chatham and would like to meet, then send me a PM and I will do my best to be there - provided I am not off sailing.

 

[RobF]

Sounds to me that the OP is looking for two boats.
Boat now that he can use as a weekend sailor / holiday cottage / training vessel. He can also find what layout works best for him (e.g. aft / centre cockpit or what kind of rig). This could easily be a 34 foot boat from the likes of Bavaria, Jeanneau, Beneteau etc.
He can then buy a boat in 10yrs which he can cruise the Oceans.

Lots of people would be happy to go across the Atlantic in a Jeaneau 379, but it wouldn't be my first choice for world cruising.
Lots of people would be happy manoevring a longish keel ocean cruiser in a crowded marina, but it wouldn't be my first choice.

 

[dulls]

Agree entirely with the above.

On my DS Practical blind-nav exercise (sprung on me just as we'd cleared Cowes entrance) we stopped within a few meters of the navigation mark I'd nominated outside the Beaulieau, at which the instructor bounced down below demanding to see the hidden GPS he thought I was using!

Don't tell me anyone can do this after just a bit of casual crewing or three days into a five day practical course without having sat down to learn and repeatedly practice pilotage and navigation theory first.

Do you have a Vancouver 34? If so what is the head room in the saloon and the length of the midships births? Thanks.

 

[Jmc1764]

Join a local club

 

[Babylon]

Do you have a Vancouver 34? If so what is the head room in the saloon and the length of the midships births? Thanks.

Mine's the Vancouver 27 so can't answer the question about the 34 from direct experience, but will ask the question of those who do.

Might be worth looking at the Vancouver Yachts Association website here: VYA

 

[dulls]

Mine's the Vancouver 27 so can't answer the question about the 34 from direct experience, but will ask the question of those who do.

Might be worth looking at the Vancouver Yachts Association website here: VYA

Thanks very much for that. I will do but it is often hard to get answers like that. I hope to look at a 34 next week.