Buying my first sail boat!

[Sandy]

By the way, there's a good article in Practical Boat Owner this week about the alternative to buying a newer boat - get an older one then do a quick refit so you have an as-new boat but with a lot of the depreciation taken care of - you get the benefit of really knowing your boat, and could well pay less for a better overall boat.

Quick refit, what fantasy world does the author of that article live in?

So far I've removed 200 meters of wire not actually connected to anything. 100 metes of wire with one end connected to a battery and 10 meters connected to a live AC system!

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Quick refit, what fantasy world does the author of that article live in?

So far I've removed 200 meters of wire not actually connected to anything. 100 metes of wire with one end connected to a battery and 10 meters connected to a live AC system!

There is no such thing as a quick refit of a boat and certainly not a cheap one. Been there got a couple of T shirts to prove it

 

[Captain Crisp]

I did Day Skipper and then Coastal. I've had a 28 ft 50 year old Twister for 1 1/2 years. Numerous issues, but all slowly overcome, and I've leant/ am learning huge amounts about how yachts work and why. All good stuff to know when you're miles from land...
Oh, and she's stunning to look at! So, yes, small first, learn, make mistakes, then decide...
Crisp

 

[Sandy]

I'd argue that you don't need the theory if you've got the practical, which covers things like navigation, colregs and tidal calculations anyway. Get the DS theory book and keep it on board, by all means and, if you want a piece of paper, get a few miles under your belt and do the Yachtmaster Offshore.

I'm pretty sure if you are doing your DS practical the theory is a requirement.

Personally, I'd do the YM theory for DS. The small Reeds Skippers Handbook is my reference material of choice.

 

[Stemar]

All I can do is give my experience. I signed up for a comp crew and it was the first time on a yacht. but was learning colregs with everyone else. Nav and met, I'd done as an air cadet and getting a private pilot's licence years before, so a quick refresher was all I needed. When I asked to upgrade, the instructor was dubious, but said if I met the standard, he'd pass me. There were four students, a couple doing coastal skipper, another comp crew and me. At the end of the course, the husband got his CS, his wife failed and was given a comp crew certificate, as was the other comp crew. I got a day skipper.

That was not far from 20 years ago, so things might have tightened up now.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

All I can do is give my experience. I signed up for a comp crew and it was the first time on a yacht. but was learning colregs with everyone else. Nav and met, I'd done as an air cadet and getting a private pilot's licence years before, so a quick refresher was all I needed. When I asked to upgrade, the instructor was dubious, but said if I met the standard, he'd pass me. There were four students, a couple doing coastal skipper, another comp crew and me. At the end of the course, the husband got his CS, his wife failed and was given a comp crew certificate, as was the other comp crew. I got a day skipper.

That was not far from 20 years ago, so things might have tightened up now.

That sounds a bit like my experience from the same period , I wanted my new partner to get some confidence and experience with someone else before she came out with me but she wouldn't go on her own and it was before the days of "girls only" courses. So we signed up together for competent crew course. The other two were two girls that were on day skipper course. Within a couple of hours the instructor collared me and politely enquired as to why I was doing the CC, I explained and he said OK try not to get in the way. Over the next few days we chatted and he was continually assessing my knowledge and what I was doing and usually after he had asked the girls what their plan was on a particular exercise and gone over it with them he would get me to one side as they were preparing the boat and ask me about the plan and if I had anything to add.
The girls desperately wanted to go to Alderney and persuaded the instructor, the plan was for a passage that involved a night entry as it happens the missed most of it as the two girls and my partner all succumbed to sea sickness by half way across and it was left to me and the instructor to sail the boat after he checked that I was OK. We spent the time chatting crossing the separation zone, light identification actions to take etc. On arrival at Alderney he asked me if there was anything special and I told him about the submerged extension of the breakwater we identified the leading lights entered and picked up a buoy and retired with a mug of tea.
On the night before the last day of the course the girls and myself went to a pub to meet the girls sailing friends who raced a Sigma 40 and were racing the next day, it turned out they were short of a crew and I was asked if I wanted to join. I said Yes went back to the boat grabbed my sailing gear, forgot my sleeping bag and spent a cold night in the forepeak on sail bags.
Late that evening after the race I got back to the boat and had a quiet dinner apparently nothing had been said about my absence. Next morning he handed out the course completion certificates, my partner 1st with her CC then the girls he gave one a DS and said he couldn't award the other hers and discussed it with her amid some tears. Then came my turn and he asked whether I wanted my CC I said it didn't really matter and apologised for bunking off, he then produced the CS course completion cert and said I could have that if I wished which really surprised me at the time.

 

[davidej]

I think the idea of chartering several different boats is the best yet. Maybe start with a Med flotilla holiday.

Couls prevent a costly mistake

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

I think the idea of chartering several different boats is the best yet. Maybe start with a Med flotilla holiday.

Couls prevent a costly mistake

The only drawback to that plan is that the charter companies generally want the skipper to have an ICC, which is pretty much the equivalent of a DS anyway.

 

[laika]

you only find out what you really want to do on a boat and what you really want a boat to do for you, by owning one (or a few) of them. If you accept this there is not much point buying what you think you might want in ten years time right now.

Exactly this. I'd done well over 20k miles in many different boats before buying my first, but sailing other people's boats you just deal with what you get. YMMV but it was only owning and maintaining something for an extended period that made me think about what I liked and what I don't, what works for me and what doesn't, how much stuff costs to replace and what's available.

The characteristics one wants for a long-term globetrotting liveaboard are completely different from what one wants to explore the crinkly bits of the UK and northern france. The ideal for the latter is smaller and fortuitously better suited to learning. 12+m will preclude you from some marinas and moorings. Youtubers encouraging people to go large from the off presumably don't frequent our waters. Stick to your proposed sub 10.5m options. Even if you're an alpha male for whom mishaps are water off a duck's back, parking disasters in a 12m yacht won't encourage your family. As V1701 says, you don't know what you'll want in 10 years' time and more importantly no-one can tell you, so buy a boat to learn and have fun in the UK on and trade up when you know what you want.

 

[[178529]]

Whilst the OP has long since retired, this thread is pretty interesting around the basic choices we make. My own view around one aspect is not to buy a boat you think your partner will like, particularly if you are both new to sailing. I'm happy to be proved wrong on this but my experience is that it is a rare and happy thing that a partner actually likes sailing. The reality of wet, windy, cold, seasick that is often the experience of UK coastal sailing is a World away from the YouTube blogs of happy couples sailing around the World and the Caribbean / Mediterranean lifestyle.

If I'm lucky, the sun is out and there isnt much wind I might get my wife onboard for a couple of hours twice a year. Buy a boat for yourself.

 

[Kelpie]

I convinced myself that I should get some sort of small trailer sailor with an outboard. Total simplicity and low running costs.
We actually ended up buying a Vega instead, because it was for sale locally.
I think if I had stuck to my first idea, which was based on various half thought out priorities, my wife would never have got in to sailing at all because it would have been too spartan.

It's not good to have too many preconceptions. I remember talking to someone who had just bought a boat and was busy eliminating every through hull. Obviously he had been convinced somehow that they would sink his boat and were evil. He probably missed his toilet and sink but I'm sure it all made sense to him!

 

[KompetentKrew]

If your partner enjoys sailing then you should treat her to whatever boat she likes, finances permitting.

I don't think OP's idea of a new Jeanneau 35 is that bad, just choosing a boat before he's even been on a competent crew course.

 

[Babylon]

I think to be fair on OP, he was on his CC six months ago, is currently on his DS (theory and practical) and by the end of August will be working as a YM Examiner.

 

[dulls]

Evening one and all

I am very new to sailing, in fact I am on my competent crew course tomorrow morning ( Monday 13th July 2020 ) with Elite sailing in Chatham Marina, I will be following this up with day skipper courses and any additional you could advise.

I would like some advice and feedback from you experts in here please on what would be a good boat to buy based on needs, usage and budget.

myself and my wife intend to retire in 10 years, sell up and given hopefully the experience we have by that time, go off sailing and exploring for a couple of years so due to the long term plan we want to get something half decent now that will stand us in good stead for 9 - 10 years time still when we go off on our adventures, but also something we can use now as a weekend cruiser or for holidays so we could spend a week or two aboard and be quite comfortable.

Our budget is £80-£100k

We have been doing some research for quite a few months and our current preferred boat would be a Jeanneau sun odyssey 349, a 2014 - 2017 model.
Thoughts on this boat, is it a good boat in peoples eyes and be good enough to go world cruising if needed, even in 10 years time, also good enough now and comfortable enough to be a good weekend / holiday cruiser?

Other boats we like are as follows

Beneteau Oceanis 46

Bavaria 37 cruiser

Bavaria 33 cruiser

Dufour 455 grand large

Thank you so much in advance for any help or advice given it really is much appreciated

Get the biggest most comfortable boat you can afford. You will soon get used to handling it regardless of size. Comfort for the wife is important.

 

[dulls]

I'm pretty sure if you are doing your DS practical the theory is a requirement.

Personally, I'd do the YM theory for DS. The small Reeds Skippers Handbook is my reference material of choice.

Great little book. Always in my pocket along with my speed rule and hand bearing compass and some soggy bit of paper that once had a back bearing plan on it.

 

[Babylon]

I'm pretty sure if you are doing your DS practical the theory is a requirement.

It wasn't for the two hopelessly inexperienced DS candidates when I was on a school boat doing my Coastal Skipper prep week. Neither was there an actual boat available on the first day, nor had the school booked an examiner for the end.

 

[laika]

Get the biggest most comfortable boat you can afford. You will soon get used to handling it regardless of size.

Do you really think learning to manoeuvre in a UK marina is best done with a 14.4m boat (ie the larger of the OP's suggestions)? What length boat did you learn on?

 

[Tiderace]

Get the biggest most comfortable boat you can afford. You will soon get used to handling it regardless of size. Comfort for the wife is important.

Whilst I agree with the last sentence! And who wouldn't, I cant agree with the first. There is a massive difference in running cost between the smallest and largest boats on the OPs list. The old adage stands "you might be able to afford to by the XXXX; but can you afford to run it?"

Fortunalty all the boats on the OPs list are regularly up for charter, so go try them. But personally I wouldn't throw my money away on a new boat; the depreciasion makes buying new cars look like an inconsequencal past time!

 

[dulls]

Do you really think learning to manoeuvre in a UK marina is best done with a 14.4m boat (ie the larger of the OP's suggestions)? What length boat did you learn on?

Dinghy then a 25 ft then a 31 foot. My first boat was 31 feet and my second was 40. The principles are the same within reason. You could buy your 40 footer and most come with a bow thrust and spend the whole day practising coming along side with it. Now a long keel is a different proposition. Once you have left the marina 40 foot is not relevant. In my last boat which was a full long keel if i could not go to the fuel birth i would row in with Jerry cans. A pain i know but i did not fuel my boat that often. Back to most 40 footers with fin keels they manoeuvre pretty well. Within a week of practice under different conditions you will have most of it sorted. Just as important will be placement of fenders and making plans with your crew on coming along side. You can also talk to the marina staff and say you are inexperienced and they will give you a better birth if they can. I firmly say stick with the biggest boat you can afford so your wife will enjoy it. After a month on board going places you will be pretty good.

 

[dulls]

Whilst I agree with the last sentence! And who wouldn't, I cant agree with the first. There is a massive difference in running cost between the smallest and largest boats on the OPs list. The old adage stands "you might be able to afford to by the XXXX; but can you afford to run it?"

Fortunalty all the boats on the OPs list are regularly up for charter, so go try them. But personally I wouldn't throw my money away on a new boat; the depreciasion makes buying new cars look like an inconsequencal past time!

I said "afford".