Buying my first sail boat!

[Rhincodon]

Evening one and all

I am very new to sailing, in fact I am on my competent crew course tomorrow morning ( Monday 13th July 2020 ) with Elite sailing in Chatham Marina, I will be following this up with day skipper courses and any additional you could advise.

I would like some advice and feedback from you experts in here please on what would be a good boat to buy based on needs, usage and budget.

myself and my wife intend to retire in 10 years, sell up and given hopefully the experience we have by that time, go off sailing and exploring for a couple of years so due to the long term plan we want to get something half decent now that will stand us in good stead for 9 - 10 years time still when we go off on our adventures, but also something we can use now as a weekend cruiser or for holidays so we could spend a week or two aboard and be quite comfortable.

Our budget is £80-£100k

We have been doing some research for quite a few months and our current preferred boat would be a Jeanneau sun odyssey 349, a 2014 - 2017 model.
Thoughts on this boat, is it a good boat in peoples eyes and be good enough to go world cruising if needed, even in 10 years time, also good enough now and comfortable enough to be a good weekend / holiday cruiser?

Other boats we like are as follows

Beneteau Oceanis 46

Bavaria 37 cruiser

Bavaria 33 cruiser

Dufour 455 grand large

Thank you so much in advance for any help or advice given it really is much appreciated

Jamie
I have followed this thread with fascination having only just found it.
I am in a similar but slightly different position and am dying to find out what you did in the end and where are you at now ?
I have my DS,VHF,Diesel RYA blah blah but all on motor .
I am now going down sail route but have shorter timetable for that dream trip ( 2/3 years)
Also £100k budget seems to have not as many options in Jan 2025 as it did when u wrote this - please DM me if better
Regards
Phillip

 

[Tranona]

Jamie
I have followed this thread with fascination having only just found it.
I am in a similar but slightly different position and am dying to find out what you did in the end and where are you at now ?
I have my DS,VHF,Diesel RYA blah blah but all on motor .
I am now going down sail route but have shorter timetable for that dream trip ( 2/3 years)
Also £100k budget seems to have not as many options in Jan 2025 as it did when u wrote this - please DM me if better
Regards
Phillip

Welcome to the forum

Doubt you will find out anything about what the OP did as, like many who come on here asking similar questions he disappeared and has not been seen since September 2020.

However Skylark (who does still post here) hit the nail on the head right at the beginning - ask 10 "experienced" sailors and you will get at least 10 different answers - probably more. Later on in the thread another very experienced person suggested that the boat is of far less importance than the people. Don't get obsessed with finding the "perfect" boat - it does not exist.

You don't say what your dream trip will actually involve. Where do you plan to cruise? how many people? how long for? Is it the sailing or the visiting places that are important? are you selling up and living aboard? Different answers set maybe different priorities when looking for a boat. The fact that the choice is so wide gives you an idea of how peoples' priorities differ. Off course there are lots of mainstream production boats such as the ones initially suggested and perhaps the majority particularly if staying around Europe buy one of these and adapt it to their needs. Increasingly people who go further afield also choose one of this type. However there is a preference in some circles if going further afield for older designs


Your £100k, which in reality probably gives you a buying price for the boat of £70k gives you a huge potential choice. There are very few intrinsically bad boats and the key things to consider revolve around condition and equipment. This is increasingly important because costs of new and replacement gear is related to new boat prices - not the price of a 15-30 year old boat such as you will be looking at. You are right about less choice than 5 years ago as very few new boats have been sold in this period which means that used boat prices have held up as supplies have dwindled. People with good modernish boats are hanging on to them.

Good luck with your search

 

[Rhincodon]

Thank you for such a prompt and useful reply.

I will come clean
I had some sailing experience in my youth before I got married in 1991.
I / we also became very accomplished scuba and tech divers.
Then we had 3 wonderful children who are now 31/30 & 28.
I always wanted to return to sailing but the children's education etc always made that a future dream.
I was diagnoised with pretty grim cancer in 2017 - I beat the odds post transplant that year and bought a Bavaria Motor yacht - as my phisical strength was non existent - but was the best thing ever, i did every RYA course and we had some fabulous times on her but I sold her just before the Budget as i really want to get back to sailing and now have 90% strength back.
I have worked thoughout my illness and still have treatment monthly at the Royal Marsden, which keeps me in remission for now.
However - it wont and cant be forever - apparenlty- so I want to make my dream come true while i still can and my dream is to buy a yacht now, enjoy 1/2 seasons on the south coast, (I have kept my berth at Northney)
and see if i can actually sail her to the Med - if i make it go on from there why not! I am 61, but very capable.
So I am in love with a 2012 Hallberg - Rassy 342 - seen many and the market now seems to make these ridiculously overpriced boats getting more sensible, i have option on 2 at aboout £130k
My Daughter (middle child) and her man are Extreme sailors who teach Yachtmaster and deliver boats, so I should have some in house expertise - but they want me to buy much larger boat (non HR etc) which i feel is their prefrence rather than what I can handle single handled.
I dont seem to be able to find the right Jen, Ben or Bav option that would make more sense - so please avise - remembering that an 8 year opton isnt for me - i wont be here - if i make it to my depaurtue date than I would rather do it in a bit of luxury.

 

[Rhincodon]

budget woulb be £150k tops

 

[ashtead]

Looking at you post (and being someone who has also had royal marsden treatment and is also child of 1960s) I think if the budget isn’t flexible you have to decide whether size is key or make - clearly you can buy a bigger Hanse for your budget for example but only you really know if you can single hand it- it’s berthing which is the challenge as with electric winches and self tacking jibs most sailing issues are a single handed task. We have at our marina a chap who sails his 41ft Bene single handed and backs into berth - I only saw he had an issue due to a medical incident not due to lack of mooring skill but it’s the unexpected like that which can catch anyone out. Maybe if HR appeal an older solid Malo might fit budget with more space? Do you propose to have crew to take to Med maybe? For 4 life on a 34ft can be cramped whereas on 40ft it seems much more comfortable . If however pottering around Solent is initial aim maybe other makes with lifting keel might suit ?
Maybe go for a Hallberg if you heart is set on it and try for 2 seasons and then sell it - with HR you sacrifice cabins (unless in the larger sector) but maybe this isn’t an issue. Are you looking for tiller or wheel? Having learnt to sail on a tiller westerly I would always be looking for a wheel plus there might be other makes which are easier to berth?
For what it’s worth if I was planning to sail in med I might just look at buying a boat there -plenty seem to reach Levkos or such like and over winter there ? If time is short maybe buying in situ makes sense.

 

[Tranona]

Thank you for such a prompt and useful reply.

I will come clean
I had some sailing experience in my youth before I got married in 1991.
I / we also became very accomplished scuba and tech divers.
Then we had 3 wonderful children who are now 31/30 & 28.
I always wanted to return to sailing but the children's education etc always made that a future dream.
I was diagnoised with pretty grim cancer in 2017 - I beat the odds post transplant that year and bought a Bavaria Motor yacht - as my phisical strength was non existent - but was the best thing ever, i did every RYA course and we had some fabulous times on her but I sold her just before the Budget as i really want to get back to sailing and now have 90% strength back.
I have worked thoughout my illness and still have treatment monthly at the Royal Marsden, which keeps me in remission for now.
However - it wont and cant be forever - apparenlty- so I want to make my dream come true while i still can and my dream is to buy a yacht now, enjoy 1/2 seasons on the south coast, (I have kept my berth at Northney)
and see if i can actually sail her to the Med - if i make it go on from there why not! I am 61, but very capable.
So I am in love with a 2012 Hallberg - Rassy 342 - seen many and the market now seems to make these ridiculously overpriced boats getting more sensible, i have option on 2 at aboout £130k
My Daughter (middle child) and her man are Extreme sailors who teach Yachtmaster and deliver boats, so I should have some in house expertise - but they want me to buy much larger boat (non HR etc) which i feel is their prefrence rather than what I can handle single handled.
I dont seem to be able to find the right Jen, Ben or Bav option that would make more sense - so please avise - remembering that an 8 year opton isnt for me - i wont be here - if i make it to my depaurtue date than I would rather do it in a bit of luxury.

Brings back memories, although my sequence was a bit different. When I was in my mid 50s I started planning for a similar trip and initially thought of buying a boat in the UK and working down to the Med over a couple of years. Then we chartered first in Turkey with a Bene then in Corfu with a Moody 37 which was top of the list for buying in the UK. Very quickly realised that the Moody (and HRs for more money) were not the right boats for the Med. Great for northern waters and getting to the Med around the outside, but not suitable for extended living aboard and sailing there. After the Moody we chartered a Bavaria 42 and it was a revelation. spacious, big cockpit, access to the water, large fuel and water tanks, good sailing in light airs and good motoring. Other half was not keen on sailing there but liked being there so the next year 2001 we bought a new Bavaria 37 (agreed 42 was a bit too big) on a charter management deal set to end when retirement came. Had 7 year's holidays, 2 or 3 times a year and took the boat over in 2008 with a plan to have maybe 3 more seasons in Greece and then progressively bring the boat back to UK. Unfortunately in 2009 I had cancer in one of my kidneys - totally unexpected as I already knew my kidneys would eventually fail, but annual checks showed it was a long way off at that time. So decided to sail the boat to UK in one hit with a crew starting in May in order to get up the Iberian coast before the northerlies set in and meet my date at the end of June with the knife. It was a horrible passage with 2 autopilots failing and hours of motoring so stopped NE Spain and trucked the boat back to Poole.

The kidney I lost was the better one and the remaining one was just enough to keep me going, although I also needed heart surgery which meant in 2015 I had to go on dialysis. The heart surgery was a great success and I learned to live with dialysis with a reasonable expectation of 4 or 5 years active life. I swapped the Bavaria for a new Bavaria 33 Cruiser not with a view to going back to longer term cruising but to do as much sailing as I could while I could. I was lucky enough to get a near perfect transplant in November 2016 which inevitably has extended my expected life considerably. I sold the Bavaria in early 2022 because I judged I still had time to tick another box and renovate an older boat which is what I am still doing, as well as sailing it while I can.

I can see the attraction of owning an HR. When I bought the 33 a 310 was in the frame, but even though I could afford it I just could not justify the £60k premium plus the potential snagging that seems to go with buying a semi custom boat. The whole experience with both my Bavarias was exemplary. Neither had any real issues. The first one stood up to 7 seasons chartering and the second one which was built to my spec was faultless apart from software issues with the Garmin gear and a failed Lewmar windlass in the fifth year. I appreciate that your budget will not buy a new boat, but my choice with that sort of money would be an 8-10 year old Bavaria 37. That is what I would have bought in 2015 if we had been going back to the Med. Your daughter is right. There is no problem in setting up a 37-40' boat for single handing. You need a bow thruster, wireless controls and in mast furling. Boats like the Bavaria have small jibs and large mains so no heavy winching needed. I sailed my 33 almost like a dinghy, tacking up and down Poole harbour for fun. You will need to reserve some funds to make the boat Med ready. Bimini essential and upgrading electrics, probably now using lithium, but crucially solar to keep up with the high loads from living aboard. You will have seen from other posts on this thread that chartering a couple of times with a similar boat like we did is a good idea. It is only then that you will get a handle on what it is like sailing and living in hot climates and how you need to set up your boat. Indeed buying an ex charter VAT free boat out there is also a viable alternative. You miss out on getting there, but doing justice to that is realistically a 2 season project.

So more choices, much dependent on you and your family's expectations and preferences, plus of course your time frame. My view is that the boat is a means to an end in this sort of project and a boat like the Bavaria is simply better at the job than an HR or similar premium boat. An example to illustrate what I mean.yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/bavaria-yachts-37-cruiser-for-sale/763732

Hope this helps

 

[KompetentKrew]

So I am in love with a 2012 Hallberg - Rassy 342 - seen many and the market now seems to make these ridiculously overpriced boats getting more sensible, i have option on 2 at aboout £130k

Buy the boat that your heart yearns for.

I singlehand larger, with far less experience than you have, but I am 10 years younger than you and have no health issues. I know other singlehanders with 35' boats who are very happy with them.

If you want a Hallberg-Rassy then I don't think you'll ever be happy with a Jen-Ben-Bav, and the 342 is big enough for taking crew.

 

[searocket]

After looking at lots of boats around 35' we bought a HR342 a couple of years ago for extended cruising - once we saw it the decision was easy. It's been a superb boat for us, comfortable on passage and living aboard.

 

[dansaskip]

I am with KompetentKrew here Go for what your heart desires you won’t be satisfied with any other. Ignore others prompting you to get a bigger boat or another make after all it’s a boat for you not them.

 

[gaylord694]

Exactly, buy what floats your boat quite literally don't just buy on opinions of others , obviously listen to all of them but ultimately it's your money so spend it on what you think your going love ...... Your know when you see the right boat it just hits you between the eyes ...... .. .....

 

[Rhincodon]

Looking at you post (and being someone who has also had royal marsden treatment and is also child of 1960s) I think if the budget isn’t flexible you have to decide whether size is key or make - clearly you can buy a bigger Hanse for your budget for example but only you really know if you can single hand it- it’s berthing which is the challenge as with electric winches and self tacking jibs most sailing issues are a single handed task. We have at our marina a chap who sails his 41ft Bene single handed and backs into berth - I only saw he had an issue due to a medical incident not due to lack of mooring skill but it’s the unexpected like that which can catch anyone out. Maybe if HR appeal an older solid Malo might fit budget with more space? Do you propose to have crew to take to Med maybe? For 4 life on a 34ft can be cramped whereas on 40ft it seems much more comfortable . If however pottering around Solent is initial aim maybe other makes with lifting keel might suit ?
Maybe go for a Hallberg if you heart is set on it and try for 2 seasons and then sell it - with HR you sacrifice cabins (unless in the larger sector) but maybe this isn’t an issue. Are you looking for tiller or wheel? Having learnt to sail on a tiller westerly I would always be looking for a wheel plus there might be other makes which are easier to berth?
For what it’s worth if I was planning to sail in med I might just look at buying a boat there -plenty seem to reach Levkos or such like and over winter there ? If time is short maybe buying in situ makes sense.

Thank you - some very good points - I will look at other makes/models and always happy to spend less - having read all those posts from 2020 that started this thread - I thought i should start with a smaller yacht, hence the HR 342 (becasue I likethem, but I also loved my Bavaria MB) and if i can single handle the smaller one and if the smaller interior is not working out maybe upgrade, but wont be to a larger HR as budget wont allow. I am very conscious that to end of budget, means boat, lus any new sails, nav, god know what else then the bank is dry. I also thought the correclty purchaed HR might keep alot more of its value if well maintained etc. they certainly seem to get snapped up quickly from what i have seen last couple of months.
First season with be solent pottering and maybe a little more, channel islands etc.
Iifting keel i must look in to as know Southerley do them and sure many others but need to educate myslef if you think important, I was a bit blase on my Motored Bavaria as although the twin out drives did give it some draft issues I never came close to grounding them - mainly due to wallet damage fears i think.
Definitley want a wheel - i have the potantial of crew joining me for bits iof the dream trip but frankly I am feelign a bit selfish about buying fortheir comfort over my own enjoyment and handling - it will be morel ike wife joining for aweek oftwo and daughter & partner similar - but you make a good point.
Thank you again

 

[Rhincodon]

Brings back memories, although my sequence was a bit different. When I was in my mid 50s I started planning for a similar trip and initially thought of buying a boat in the UK and working down to the Med over a couple of years. Then we chartered first in Turkey with a Bene then in Corfu with a Moody 37 which was top of the list for buying in the UK. Very quickly realised that the Moody (and HRs for more money) were not the right boats for the Med. Great for northern waters and getting to the Med around the outside, but not suitable for extended living aboard and sailing there. After the Moody we chartered a Bavaria 42 and it was a revelation. spacious, big cockpit, access to the water, large fuel and water tanks, good sailing in light airs and good motoring. Other half was not keen on sailing there but liked being there so the next year 2001 we bought a new Bavaria 37 (agreed 42 was a bit too big) on a charter management deal set to end when retirement came. Had 7 year's holidays, 2 or 3 times a year and took the boat over in 2008 with a plan to have maybe 3 more seasons in Greece and then progressively bring the boat back to UK. Unfortunately in 2009 I had cancer in one of my kidneys - totally unexpected as I already knew my kidneys would eventually fail, but annual checks showed it was a long way off at that time. So decided to sail the boat to UK in one hit with a crew starting in May in order to get up the Iberian coast before the northerlies set in and meet my date at the end of June with the knife. It was a horrible passage with 2 autopilots failing and hours of motoring so stopped NE Spain and trucked the boat back to Poole.

The kidney I lost was the better one and the remaining one was just enough to keep me going, although I also needed heart surgery which meant in 2015 I had to go on dialysis. The heart surgery was a great success and I learned to live with dialysis with a reasonable expectation of 4 or 5 years active life. I swapped the Bavaria for a new Bavaria 33 Cruiser not with a view to going back to longer term cruising but to do as much sailing as I could while I could. I was lucky enough to get a near perfect transplant in November 2016 which inevitably has extended my expected life considerably. I sold the Bavaria in early 2022 because I judged I still had time to tick another box and renovate an older boat which is what I am still doing, as well as sailing it while I can.

I can see the attraction of owning an HR. When I bought the 33 a 310 was in the frame, but even though I could afford it I just could not justify the £60k premium plus the potential snagging that seems to go with buying a semi custom boat. The whole experience with both my Bavarias was exemplary. Neither had any real issues. The first one stood up to 7 seasons chartering and the second one which was built to my spec was faultless apart from software issues with the Garmin gear and a failed Lewmar windlass in the fifth year. I appreciate that your budget will not buy a new boat, but my choice with that sort of money would be an 8-10 year old Bavaria 37. That is what I would have bought in 2015 if we had been going back to the Med. Your daughter is right. There is no problem in setting up a 37-40' boat for single handing. You need a bow thruster, wireless controls and in mast furling. Boats like the Bavaria have small jibs and large mains so no heavy winching needed. I sailed my 33 almost like a dinghy, tacking up and down Poole harbour for fun. You will need to reserve some funds to make the boat Med ready. Bimini essential and upgrading electrics, probably now using lithium, but crucially solar to keep up with the high loads from living aboard. You will have seen from other posts on this thread that chartering a couple of times with a similar boat like we did is a good idea. It is only then that you will get a handle on what it is like sailing and living in hot climates and how you need to set up your boat. Indeed buying an ex charter VAT free boat out there is also a viable alternative. You miss out on getting there, but doing justice to that is realistically a 2 season project.

So more choices, much dependent on you and your family's expectations and preferences, plus of course your time frame. My view is that the boat is a means to an end in this sort of project and a boat like the Bavaria is simply better at the job than an HR or similar premium boat. An example to illustrate what I mean.yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/bavaria-yachts-37-cruiser-for-sale/763732

Hope this helps

Thank you this feedbaack and I am very glad you got the Kidney you deserved and may (like me) we continue to beat any odds and statistics while the technlology continues to improve.
Very good point about Med upgardes, so maybe what i buy now for solent and closer sailing wont be what I end up with - HR retention valuee could be an advantage here but not garaunteed of course.
FUnnily enough your link if very uunetresting as I went to see this while I was lookingat HR's in Devon and Dorset this past week.
https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/yacht/2016-bavaria-cruiser-37-9334936/
ANd I really liked her and felt like my Bavaria MB in parts and was cavernous inside versus the HR's i saw.
So much i tried to see another in Dartmouth but the broker said she wasnt available to see that day - funny lot considering how far I travelled.
I missed the oneo n your link - thank you
I need to see some others and get on one or two somehow aslo. I had zero negative issues with my Bavaria ownership - I am relatively brand agnostic - the HR's just drew me the way some old properties or classic vehicles can but how i end up handling and improving with whatever I choose must be a priority

 

[Rhincodon]

Buy the boat that your heart yearns for.

I singlehand larger, with far less experience than you have, but I am 10 years younger than you and have no health issues. I know other singlehanders with 35' boats who are very happy with them.

If you want a Hallberg-Rassy then I don't think you'll ever be happy with a Jen-Ben-Bav, and the 342 is big enough for taking crew.

This kind of inspiration is alot nicer than I get closer to home or even at work - should have asked you lot first

I do think that size to start with makes sense and if the HR doesnt eend up being right forthe job in 2/3 years time they seem to keep thier value (ish) so will see

Thank you

 

[Rhincodon]

I am with KompetentKrew here Go for what your heart desires you won’t be satisfied with any other. Ignore others prompting you to get a bigger boat or another make after all it’s a boat for you not them.

Thank you

 

[Rhincodon]

Exactly, buy what floats your boat quite literally don't just buy on opinions of others , obviously listen to all of them but ultimately it's your money so spend it on what you think your going love ...... Your know when you see the right boat it just hits you between the eyes ...... .. .....

I am glad you said that, as I did get rather smitten with a 2012 HR - it had been damaged and repaired to incedibly high standard , talked to surveyor, insurance company and the chap who did the work, but wasnt sure as just repaired, owner very elderly and giving up, but I am guessing wont know if the work is good until a few seasons time? It is at reasonale discount though, has tiller not wheel so would need to add that cost.
Came away from looking at that Bavaria 37 feelign very at home compared to my Bavaria MB, but got that "is it too big for me" syndrome.

 

[Tranona]

Thank you this feedbaack and I am very glad you got the Kidney you deserved and may (like me) we continue to beat any odds and statistics while the technlology continues to improve.
Very good point about Med upgardes, so maybe what i buy now for solent and closer sailing wont be what I end up with - HR retention valuee could be an advantage here but not garaunteed of course.
FUnnily enough your link if very uunetresting as I went to see this while I was lookingat HR's in Devon and Dorset this past week.
https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/yacht/2016-bavaria-cruiser-37-9334936/
ANd I really liked her and felt like my Bavaria MB in parts and was cavernous inside versus the HR's i saw.
So much i tried to see another in Dartmouth but the broker said she wasnt available to see that day - funny lot considering how far I travelled.
I missed the oneo n your link - thank you
I need to see some others and get on one or two somehow aslo. I had zero negative issues with my Bavaria ownership - I am relatively brand agnostic - the HR's just drew me the way some old properties or classic vehicles can but how i end up handling and improving with whatever I choose must be a priority

Peter Keats is a good contact for things Bavaria. He worked for Clippper Marine for many years and did the deal for me when I bought my new 33 - and then handled the sale! That 37 looks good.

I can understand the attraction of HRs, they really are lovely, just simply not at home in the Med. Tiller steering, small cockpit, poor access over the stern no bow thruster. Excellent boat for northern waters cruising and would be really good for the trip going down the outside, but once you got through the Straits you would start wishing for a different kind of boat.

TBH the trip to the Med is not what it used to be, particularly if you are limited by Schengen rules as you can no longer roam freely plus it has become overcrowded and expensive. Very different from 25 years ago when we first started. Given your limited time horizon it is probably a bit ambitious to buy a boat now, get to know it and yourself, sail it down to the Med and get meaningful time there. That is really a 5 year plan and you will have difficulty in selling the boat there (and expensive/hard work to bring it back to the UK). Maybe having a couple of years quality time with a boat like the HR, charter to see if you really fancy the Med. Then if you are still capable buy a boat out there. Greece is the obvious place and being a non resident you can own and use a non VAT paid boat. Alternatively you might consider a charter management deal like we did. Ours was a bit restrictive but you can get more flexible deals now. This is worth looking at, both for charter and buying a boat sailionian.com British family run and well respected.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I am glad you said that, as I did get rather smitten with a 2012 HR - it had been damaged and repaired to incedibly high standard , talked to surveyor, insurance company and the chap who did the work, but wasnt sure as just repaired, owner very elderly and giving up, but I am guessing wont know if the work is good until a few seasons time? It is at reasonale discount though, has tiller not wheel so would need to add that cost.
Came away from looking at that Bavaria 37 feelign very at home compared to my Bavaria MB, but got that "is it too big for me" syndrome.

Half your issue is that you can have, with your budget, literally anything that is reasonably handleable solo, with the exception of a very few expensive multis perhaps. What a great problem to have! I wouldn't get hung up on tiller Vs wheel, wheels have become a fashion must have only fairly recently. With your size of boat you can learn to love either. Don't even think of converting one. As Tranona says, the HR is a fantastic choice for UK, and the med ain't all it's cracked up to be and might be hard work to achieve, so why not, if you find one you love.

 

[DoubleEnder]

Loads of good, knowledgeable and experienced advice here. Two things I’d add:

Buying a sailing boat is for most people at least as much of an emotional as a practical decision. Committed racing sailors, long term cruisers, or charter companies will have a very useful set of measurable criteria. But for people like you (us) it’s at least as much about heart as head. So if you really like and want the “less practical” Halberg, go for it. They are fine boats and while they may not be the best suited for Mediterranean cruising, they are sought after for good reasons.

Secondly, beware of buying a boat for your occasional visitors. You may find yourself mooring, insuring, maintaining and managing a boat that for 95% of the time is too big. I could be wrong and you may have very committed extra family crew, but people’s plans change, their lives develop along their own lines and they may not be with you as much as you, or they, would like or expect. Maybe it’s better to be a bit crowded for a couple of weeks than to rattle around all year…..

Oh, and tiller vs wheel is not even worth thinking about. Whatever the right boat has will be fine, it will take you half an hour to adjust if necessary

 

[winch2]

Your know when you see the right boat it just hits you between the eyes

Isn't that the truth. Been thinking about a modest move upwards up from our brilliant little day sailer, then recently down the estuary clocked this fab looking HR29 just up the channel from us... smitten or what. I know they aren't cool and trendy but they just look, feel right to me. Anyway OP's long gone.. wonder what he got?

 

[Rhincodon]

All great comments again - got a flag about this price drop this morning - so popped down there as only 10 miles away.

2017 Bavaria Cruiser 34 For Sale - Clipper Marine

Hell of a lot of boat and potetnial when i consider the HR 342 is almost 2x the price.
Needs some extras and fidning outthe history - Hull wrap - any views? Is it hiding something?