Buying my first sail boat!

[Rhincodon]

I really like it and is amazing value versus HR i have seen, and I loved my Bav Motor Yacht so I love the brand. I am going to see it on Thursday as cannot escape from work until then, if it is still there!

 

[Rhincodon]

On the engine hours I found that the 20 minutes or so it takes to leave the marina, take off the lines and fenders and then get the sails up (and the reverse at the end of the day) add up if the boat is in regular use for much of the year. Then add, for example, that seemingly every time I cross Lyme Bay it involves motoring most of the way and I end up doing over 100 hours each year.

I own a similar sized Arcona rather than a HR. Not sure when the more modern styled HR340 took over.

A friend bought one of the last Maxi 1000s which despite having every conceivable extra fitted had hardly been used in its four years.

Your freinds maxi sounds like this boat - he is stuck on price so i have decided no for now - then broker called back and said what would bea sensible offer - I thin he is thinking 5% im more like 15%

 

[Rhincodon]

That makes total sense and the if the broker had relayed this I would have been very interested as the boat needed very little spent but would be too risky to buy without seeing some before photos at least to back this up

Turns out the boat was up for £90k - agreed sale at £79k - deal collapsed at weekend, hence owner trying to move v quickly but wont move on price now which is fair. Covering was a protection thing, no damage and a survey has taken place apparently. Broker sending me before photos of hull, it was purely for protection apparently - any survey wwelcome - i am seeing it Thursday - what did u do in the end?

 

[benjenbav]

A thought, in the context of health issues and aging. I’d be very tempted by features such as in-mast furling and self tacking jibs. Ideally I’d like a Solent rig with the inner jib being self-tacking and the outer jib on a roller.

Might go a bit slower, but…

 

[Tranona]

A thought, in the context of health issues and aging. I’d be very tempted by features such as in-mast furling and self tacking jibs. Ideally I’d like a Solent rig with the inner jib being self-tacking and the outer jib on a roller.

Might go a bit slower, but…

That is the way to go and broadly how I specified my Bavaria. Although not self tacking the jib was only 106% so easy to handle. Second on my list was a Hanse 325 which did have a selftacker, but the cockpit was not as good ergonomically for single handing. On my latest project I am currently changing the rig to a "slutter" with a working inner jib (not self tacking) and an outer overlapping genoa.

 

[macca499]

Turns out the boat was up for £90k - agreed sale at £79k - deal collapsed at weekend, hence owner trying to move v quickly but wont move on price now which is fair. Covering was a protection thing, no damage and a survey has taken place apparently. Broker sending me before photos of hull, it was purely for protection apparently - any survey wwelcome - i am seeing it Thursday - what did u do in the end?

That sounds really positive and if it checks out I think it’s a very fair price for a heavily specified boat, when I was sleuthing online I saw that it had originally started at £110k a year or so ago. I am sale agreed on a newer but less well specced 34, just post-survey and trying to get the niggles resolved before hopefully completing soon. It needs a few upgrades done to bring it up to similar spec so my plan would be to get these bits done while it’s over your way then enlist a delivery skipper to bring it home to NI, exciting times all around!

 

[Rhincodon]

That sounds really positive and if it checks out I think it’s a very fair price for a heavily specified boat, when I was sleuthing online I saw that it had originally started at £110k a year or so ago. I am sale agreed on a newer but less well specced 34, just post-survey and trying to get the niggles resolved before hopefully completing soon. It needs a few upgrades done to bring it up to similar spec so my plan would be to get these bits done while it’s over your way then enlist a delivery skipper to bring it home to NI, exciting times all around!

That sound great- I am off to seethat Bav 34 this afternoon now- change of work plans due to the weather.
I will let you know what I think.
On your delivery, my daughter and other half do Yacht deliveries, usually for a company - DYT I think.
She just got back form a Norway to Lymington delivery (Dad taxi pick up service) and he just retuned form part of the ARC race leg, having previously done a delivery on 40 year old boat from Cape Verde to somewhere or other.
I think they rate DYT quite well.

 

[macca499]

That sound great- I am off to seethat Bav 34 this afternoon now- change of work plans due to the weather.
I will let you know what I think.
On your delivery, my daughter and other half do Yacht deliveries, usually for a company - DYT I think.
She just got back form a Norway to Lymington delivery (Dad taxi pick up service) and he just retuned form part of the ARC race leg, having previously done a delivery on 40 year old boat from Cape Verde to somewhere or other.
I think they rate DYT quite well.

thanks great to know and I will definitely touch base if i can get wrapped up, look forward to hearing how you get on today

 

[Rhincodon]

thanks great to know and I will definitely touch base if i can get wrapped up, look forward to hearing how you get on today

Well I only just got back - Gosport traffic in light snow - its only 9 miles! QUicker to fly to France.
The yacht is like new - genuinely.
The sails and stuff look hardly used, interior immaculate.
The owner is Belgian and only came to UK to potentially race her apparently, but it didnt really happen, he spent fortune on equipment- including £7k converting locker behind the head to a 3rd single cabin.
Honestly hard to fault all round.
He had put boat up over a year ago at £110k to reflect all the extras and his spend. The market and the reality failry had brought that down to an agreed sale at £79,990 - the buyer had finance et al in place, but pulled out for reasons unkown.
Survey was booked but had not happened, engine, wrap, everything looked unmarked; so i believe it is a genuine situation.
More viewings this weekend since it was relisted last week, one of which has already got finance agreed, so if it is the boat he wants I imagine it will sell.
My only negatives - bow cabin bed bit small for me, 6 foot 1 - medium build, wife tiny - but how often do we spend sleeping on boat, about 20 nights in all last 4 1/2 years, but old boat had huge bed by comparison. For me alone,bed was fine or would actually sleep in aft cabin in the bit with headroom or on saloon bench with empty bottle next to me!
Why havent I made offer yet - sudden feeling of trepidation I always get before huge (for me ) purchase - will I find something better, more suitable, i know will get grief form duaghter and co for not buying bigger- but I felt quite an attachment to this one -felt very at home.
Having one of those "dont know what to do moments" - so agreed to call broker on Friday moring having had a good think - he was very honest and agreed market going one way - definitely a buyers one - prices easing, boatsselling but at very sensible prices only and condition and equipment seems key. Of course this doesnt mean I will find right boat, right price of course - becasue unless they need to, people just wont sell or will stick to price.
I do feel it has really put me off buying a Rassy now at nearly 2 x the price for a much older boat (I know build quality - blah blah) but talk about value for money this one was versus a new Bav 34.
What you think?

 

[Tranona]

Go for it. You are right about the forecabin. I am 6'3" and 110kgs and usually used that on my own although mainly because it was easier to turn over than in the aft cabin. My daughter preferred the extended berth behind the table but it was a bit tight for me to get into. I though that access to the cockpit locker was a mod - and excellent as the access from the cockpit was poor, particularly when things were at the bottom. You lose the hanging wet locker but I guess you could use part of the locker through the door. Just watch the start battery as it is under the floor just inside the door.

It is a "big" boat. The waterline length is the same as my earlier 37, beam is the same and greater displacement. It feels big when sailing without being intimidating. With those sails and the deep keel it will really go well without a lot of physical effort. Easy to park with the bow thruster. I fitted a wireless remote that did both the thruster and windlass which was boon when parking or anchoring singlehanded. It looks to have a non standard mainsheet traveller in the cockpit. This should help mainsail control which is a bit limited with the standard fixed point. Pity he did not invest in a cockpit table cover as the table looks awful. Suggest rub it down then varnish (I used Woodskin) and get Tecsew to make a cover like they made for mine in attached photo. It will have to be a bit bigger as I had the standard 9" plotter rather than the 12"

Doubt you will find a "better" boat for what you want to do. Sure it would be nice to have a bit more space (or a bit more "class") but you will have to spend a lot more money or accept an older and probably less well equipped boat. If you do go ahead I can share some of my mods with you. Nothing dramatic but enough to make it feel more personal

Carpe Diem

 

[Rhincodon]

Go for it. You are right about the forecabin. I am 6'3" and 110kgs and usually used that on my own although mainly because it was easier to turn over than in the aft cabin. My daughter preferred the extended berth behind the table but it was a bit tight for me to get into. I though that access to the cockpit locker was a mod - and excellent as the access from the cockpit was poor, particularly when things were at the bottom. You lose the hanging wet locker but I guess you could use part of the locker through the door. Just watch the start battery as it is under the floor just inside the door.

It is a "big" boat. The waterline length is the same as my earlier 37, beam is the same and greater displacement. It feels big when sailing without being intimidating. With those sails and the deep keel it will really go well without a lot of physical effort. Easy to park with the bow thruster. I fitted a wireless remote that did both the thruster and windlass which was boon when parking or anchoring singlehanded. It looks to have a non standard mainsheet traveller in the cockpit. This should help mainsail control which is a bit limited with the standard fixed point. Pity he did not invest in a cockpit table cover as the table looks awful. Suggest rub it down then varnish (I used Woodskin) and get Tecsew to make a cover like they made for mine in attached photo. It will have to be a bit bigger as I had the standard 9" plotter rather than the 12"

Doubt you will find a "better" boat for what you want to do. Sure it would be nice to have a bit more space (or a bit more "class") but you will have to spend a lot more money or accept an older and probably less well equipped boat. If you do go ahead I can share some of my mods with you. Nothing dramatic but enough to make it feel more personal

Carpe Diem

I feel sure you are right
Would love to see the mods
I will call him late tomorrow - I guess i should get a survey which means paying for it to come out etc - but makes final sense
I think if i was really not getting on with her, I would get close to my money back whatever the market

 

[macca499]

Well I only just got back - Gosport traffic in light snow - its only 9 miles! QUicker to fly to France.
The yacht is like new - genuinely.
The sails and stuff look hardly used, interior immaculate.
The owner is Belgian and only came to UK to potentially race her apparently, but it didnt really happen, he spent fortune on equipment- including £7k converting locker behind the head to a 3rd single cabin.
Honestly hard to fault all round.
He had put boat up over a year ago at £110k to reflect all the extras and his spend. The market and the reality failry had brought that down to an agreed sale at £79,990 - the buyer had finance et al in place, but pulled out for reasons unkown.
Survey was booked but had not happened, engine, wrap, everything looked unmarked; so i believe it is a genuine situation.
More viewings this weekend since it was relisted last week, one of which has already got finance agreed, so if it is the boat he wants I imagine it will sell.
My only negatives - bow cabin bed bit small for me, 6 foot 1 - medium build, wife tiny - but how often do we spend sleeping on boat, about 20 nights in all last 4 1/2 years, but old boat had huge bed by comparison. For me alone,bed was fine or would actually sleep in aft cabin in the bit with headroom or on saloon bench with empty bottle next to me!
Why havent I made offer yet - sudden feeling of trepidation I always get before huge (for me ) purchase - will I find something better, more suitable, i know will get grief form duaghter and co for not buying bigger- but I felt quite an attachment to this one -felt very at home.
Having one of those "dont know what to do moments" - so agreed to call broker on Friday moring having had a good think - he was very honest and agreed market going one way - definitely a buyers one - prices easing, boatsselling but at very sensible prices only and condition and equipment seems key. Of course this doesnt mean I will find right boat, right price of course - becasue unless they need to, people just wont sell or will stick to price.
I do feel it has really put me off buying a Rassy now at nearly 2 x the price for a much older boat (I know build quality - blah blah) but talk about value for money this one was versus a new Bav 34.
What you think?

I think it sounds great and could be a real find - i had written this one off without viewing, classic case of pre-judging as thought the price was far too high, was concerned at how long it had been for sale and about the hull wrap but with the info you now have at hand it genuinely sounds like an exceptional package for the money and crucially will need little spent on it. Although the boat i am hopefully buying is newer, I will have to spend probably £10k or more to bring it to similar spec - even the extra pair of winches at the helm would be a few grand new, suspect if you don't stick your offer in someone else will quickly now that the asking price is more realistic. The shortness of the bow berth also struck me when viewing but it will be fine for our two boys, 6 and 9 and we will sleep in the aft cabin. The only other boats that are interesting to me presently are a few nice Jeanneau SO349's which also seem to have had price reductions of late but I am drawn to Bavaria's for some reason.

 

[macca499]

Go for it. You are right about the forecabin. I am 6'3" and 110kgs and usually used that on my own although mainly because it was easier to turn over than in the aft cabin. My daughter preferred the extended berth behind the table but it was a bit tight for me to get into. I though that access to the cockpit locker was a mod - and excellent as the access from the cockpit was poor, particularly when things were at the bottom. You lose the hanging wet locker but I guess you could use part of the locker through the door. Just watch the start battery as it is under the floor just inside the door.

It is a "big" boat. The waterline length is the same as my earlier 37, beam is the same and greater displacement. It feels big when sailing without being intimidating. With those sails and the deep keel it will really go well without a lot of physical effort. Easy to park with the bow thruster. I fitted a wireless remote that did both the thruster and windlass which was boon when parking or anchoring singlehanded. It looks to have a non standard mainsheet traveller in the cockpit. This should help mainsail control which is a bit limited with the standard fixed point. Pity he did not invest in a cockpit table cover as the table looks awful. Suggest rub it down then varnish (I used Woodskin) and get Tecsew to make a cover like they made for mine in attached photo. It will have to be a bit bigger as I had the standard 9" plotter rather than the 12"

Doubt you will find a "better" boat for what you want to do. Sure it would be nice to have a bit more space (or a bit more "class") but you will have to spend a lot more money or accept an older and probably less well equipped boat. If you do go ahead I can share some of my mods with you. Nothing dramatic but enough to make it feel more personal

Carpe Diem

would you mind sharing the mods with me also please?

 

[macca499]

I feel sure you are right
Would love to see the mods
I will call him late tomorrow - I guess i should get a survey which means paying for it to come out etc - but makes final sense
I think if i was really not getting on with her, I would get close to my money back whatever the market

Any updates? My own purchase has fallen through unfortunately so I would be very interested if you don’t take her but suspect you will, it looks a great deal

 

[Tranona]

Any updates? My own purchase has fallen through unfortunately so I would be very interested if you don’t take her but suspect you will, it looks a great deal

That's a shame. Any particular reason and are you still set on a Bavaria?

I have found the photos I was looking for to illustrate what I added to mine. They concentrate on 2 areas.

First improving sail handling for singlehanding. I had in mast but made the mistake of stopping ticking boxes when the upgrade sails took the total over my self imposed budget limit. The foresail was cut too full so Kemps took a slice out of the luff which improved it particularly on the odd occasion when it needed more than 2 rolls. The main was OK to start with but went baggy very quickly. A recut helped but by year 5 the drop off in pointing and increased leeway was obvious. Kemps made a really good new one using Vectran with Spectra for the leech tape to solve the common leech flutter and sag. We went this route as there is insufficient room in the mast section to take battens unless a very light cloth is used. The difference in performance, particularly to wind was well worth the expense.

Jib furling in original form was not good with friction on the line running through the stanchion bases and the inconvenient location of the jamming block on the deck. The solution was a jamming block clamped to the pushpit and stanchion mounted fairleads for the line. The first 2 photos show these. All Harken (and expensive!)

The other big mod to the rig was adding a cruising chute. Again made by Kemps and a little smaller than normal. Set on a Selden top down furler and furled using the Selden double jamming block attached to the pulpit on the starboard side and their double pivoting stanchion fairleads that allow the furling lines to be removed while still attached to the drum. No photos of that but it is all in the Selden catalogue. The top down is a bit tricky to furl on your own as it is all too easy to get a turn caught in the early stages of the furl. Does not stop it furling but usually meant stretching the torque rope out on the pontoon to unfurl manually and start again. The solution was to attach the luff to the torque rope. This did limit how much you could shape the sail when almost downwind but overall the ease of furling more than made up for it. I wanted to avoid having a prodder, part cost and part because it would have to be set up each time the boat was used. The furler needs to be a minimum of 30cm in front of the jib furler and a tack fitting on the bow step achieve that - just. To make it work I had to cut off the top part of the strut from the cross bar underneath the step and have lugs welded onto take the legs of the U bolt which provides the tack fitting. The 2 halves of the strut that are normally adjustable were welded together to form a fixed strut taking the loads down to the stemhead fitting. Bit tricky to describe but the photos show the result.

The second lot of mods were to the interior intended to make it look a little less like top of the range IKEA and add to practicality. I bought 2 2.4m lengths of the moulding used for the shelves in the cabins from the factory. About £350 from memory. The good thing about these is that they have a slot machined into the lower aft face which makes fitting a base for shelves easy. One length would not quite make the 4 bookshelves I planned and the extra left over has been used to do similar things in my latest project boat. Photos show the shelves on the main bulkhead, above the chart table and the galley. The mug rack in the galley is a chandlery item varnished to blend in. On the starboard side behind the bunk by the bulkhead you can just see a wine glass rack I made.

Tecsew made a really good tonneau cover for the winter with access from both sides. It was the first one they made tecsew.com/boat-covers/tonneau-covers-zip-attached-to-sprayhood/bavaria-cruiser-33-tonneau-cover-zip-attached-to-sprayhood/ I am not a lover of complete cockpit enclosures but see why some people like them. I have had a similar cover made for my current boat.

Other wise the boat was standard apart from small items like a battery monitor, radio 300w inverter (never used!) and a Sidepower wireless remote that did both thruster and windlass. Two bladed folding Felxofold carried over from my previous Bavaria. Coppercoat was applied immediately it arrived at Hamble Point but although it worked well on the hull, not so well on the iron keel which I had blasted after 4 years and recoated myself. Don't know how well that stood up.

Hope you find this useful

 

[macca499]

That's a shame. Any particular reason and are you still set on a Bavaria?

I have found the photos I was looking for to illustrate what I added to mine. They concentrate on 2 areas.

First improving sail handling for singlehanding. I had in mast but made the mistake of stopping ticking boxes when the upgrade sails took the total over my self imposed budget limit. The foresail was cut too full so Kemps took a slice out of the luff which improved it particularly on the odd occasion when it needed more than 2 rolls. The main was OK to start with but went baggy very quickly. A recut helped but by year 5 the drop off in pointing and increased leeway was obvious. Kemps made a really good new one using Vectran with Spectra for the leech tape to solve the common leech flutter and sag. We went this route as there is insufficient room in the mast section to take battens unless a very light cloth is used. The difference in performance, particularly to wind was well worth the expense.

Jib furling in original form was not good with friction on the line running through the stanchion bases and the inconvenient location of the jamming block on the deck. The solution was a jamming block clamped to the pushpit and stanchion mounted fairleads for the line. The first 2 photos show these. All Harken (and expensive!)

The other big mod to the rig was adding a cruising chute. Again made by Kemps and a little smaller than normal. Set on a Selden top down furler and furled using the Selden double jamming block attached to the pulpit on the starboard side and their double pivoting stanchion fairleads that allow the furling lines to be removed while still attached to the drum. No photos of that but it is all in the Selden catalogue. The top down is a bit tricky to furl on your own as it is all too easy to get a turn caught in the early stages of the furl. Does not stop it furling but usually meant stretching the torque rope out on the pontoon to unfurl manually and start again. The solution was to attach the luff to the torque rope. This did limit how much you could shape the sail when almost downwind but overall the ease of furling more than made up for it. I wanted to avoid having a prodder, part cost and part because it would have to be set up each time the boat was used. The furler needs to be a minimum of 30cm in front of the jib furler and a tack fitting on the bow step achieve that - just. To make it work I had to cut off the top part of the strut from the cross bar underneath the step and have lugs welded onto take the legs of the U bolt which provides the tack fitting. The 2 halves of the strut that are normally adjustable were welded together to form a fixed strut taking the loads down to the stemhead fitting. Bit tricky to describe but the photos show the result.

The second lot of mods were to the interior intended to make it look a little less like top of the range IKEA and add to practicality. I bought 2 2.4m lengths of the moulding used for the shelves in the cabins from the factory. About £350 from memory. The good thing about these is that they have a slot machined into the lower aft face which makes fitting a base for shelves easy. One length would not quite make the 4 bookshelves I planned and the extra left over has been used to do similar things in my latest project boat. Photos show the shelves on the main bulkhead, above the chart table and the galley. The mug rack in the galley is a chandlery item varnished to blend in. On the starboard side behind the bunk by the bulkhead you can just see a wine glass rack I made.

Tecsew made a really good tonneau cover for the winter with access from both sides. It was the first one they made tecsew.com/boat-covers/tonneau-covers-zip-attached-to-sprayhood/bavaria-cruiser-33-tonneau-cover-zip-attached-to-sprayhood/ I am not a lover of complete cockpit enclosures but see why some people like them. I have had a similar cover made for my current boat.

Other wise the boat was standard apart from small items like a battery monitor, radio 300w inverter (never used!) and a Sidepower wireless remote that did both thruster and windlass. Two bladed folding Felxofold carried over from my previous Bavaria. Coppercoat was applied immediately it arrived at Hamble Point but although it worked well on the hull, not so well on the iron keel which I had blasted after 4 years and recoated myself. Don't know how well that stood up.

Hope you find this useful

Thanks very much for the detailed info, your bav is exactly the one careful owner who likes to upgrade boat that seem so rare!

Seeing a lot of mixed reports of copper coat online but seems to be the consensus if it is prepared and applied properly then it is a great job.

i pulled out just due to difference of opinion on post-survey repairs, still would love a bav 34 but don’t seem to be many around with all the options ticked. I will probably head over next week again to look at a few more, definitely like the SO349 also but only a 20hp engine compared to the 30hp in the bavarias. Also a few nice looking Bavaria 37’s on sale but I fear just too big for a first sailing yacht

 

[Rhincodon]

Any updates? My own purchase has fallen through unfortunately so I would be very interested if you don’t take her but suspect you will, it looks a great deal

I am sorry to hear that, I am due to go again tomorrow as is one other party, so I think one of us will buy it - what can I do to help you in case I dont? - feel free to DM me
The other party were arranging finance, so there may be a deal - I am dying ot go ahead, but wondering if i need more time to look at alternatives, it is deal of the month for sure, i have scoured the globe for similar boats and it is £15k underthe nearest like for like

 

[macca499]

I am sorry to hear that, I am due to go again tomorrow as is one other party, so I think one of us will buy it - what can I do to help you in case I dont? - feel free to DM me
The other party were arranging finance, so there may be a deal - I am dying ot go ahead, but wondering if i need more time to look at alternatives, it is deal of the month for sure, i have scoured the globe for similar boats and it is £15k underthe nearest like for like

I understand - very easy to be caught up in the moment then have regrets afterwards but if you are sure it's time to buy a boat then it's a great deal, thanks for thinking of me - please go ahead and focus on yourself tomorrow and even a heads up if it's not for you, I am heading over to Southampton to look at a few on Tuesday so if it's still available after the weekend I'll head there first but probably fair not to jump the queue in the meantime.

 

[ashtead]

For what it’s worth as a former old style Bav34 owner I always thought the 19hp engine under powered and while changing prop to a 3 blade folder at a price helps I would always look for the larger engine. As for berths the seat backs lifted on ours which gave a good length berth. If I was to replace one thing on a Bav it would be the cushions in bow cabin or a cheaper option we had was a mattress topper cut to size with an electric carving knife. It might be Bav have improved the cushion thickness in these newer models but mention in case of interest. As for cockpit covers ideally you would have one with zip in panels (if really extravagant have mesh and window ones) and high enough to stand under but with a Bav of this length might be a challenge due to boom height but have seen it done on the older style 34 . In terms of supplier I would strongly endorse Tecsew - last I heard they were suppliers to clipper brokers on new Bavs. They are not the cheapest but having used cjmarine in past for big jobs (they used to do all the Bav canvass work via brokers) we would always return to Tecsew (eg if replacing our sprayhood say) even if using local smaller family firms for more day to day jobs like window replacement or strips on headsails or other canvas work.
Lastly I should say if looking for a crusing chute for a Bav34 do get a furler -that said we had a sniffer on ours but furling on a sprit is way to go.