Buying my first sail boat!

[Babylon]

So Jamie, count the number of people who've contributed to this thread who've said "yeah, go for it mate! - bigger is better! - do it NOW!", then count the number of people who've said "try and sail on a few different boats first - charter in the Med and the Channel a couple of times - buy a smaller used yacht in reasonable condition and serve your time learning the sailing and the maintenance the proper non-U-Tube way - etc"

Then do yourself a favour and present back to us a cogent, coldly-reasoned argument why neither a 40-footer nor a 24-footer will suit your current experience and medium-term needs.

In the meantime, here's an interesting article from a guy I know who's sailed around the world with his wife in a 27-footer: Winter in Fireland

 

[convey]

... and serve your time learning the sailing and the maintenance the proper non-U-Tube way - etc"

Actually, I vote for doing it in a 'proper Youtube way' ... and ditching the wife for a 20 something year old who looks good in a micro bikini.

(How is it that every yachting video appears to capture the one frame with a women in a bikini in it?)

Even then, it's not going to work, what with her freezing her nips off in a Solent drizzle.

Wasn't it just a few years ago when Mary Unwin: Woman died in yacht crash near Land's End, trying to sail overnight from Cornwall to Devon to surprise her husband? Her body was never found. She could afford it too, they were millionaires. Didn't help much in the end. Three lifeboats, two helicopters, a plane, cliff rescue, and 150 coastguard staff were involved in the search. I get the feeling she thought it was just like driving a car too.

 

[Catalina36]

I hear everything that's said here. I'd only respond that it was obvious from Jamie's first post that this is what he's going to do. He wasn't asking for advice on whether he should buy a "big boat", he was asking for advice on which one. He's going about it the right way by going on a course which is more than Mary Unwin did. He's no more or less likely to come to harm in 36 than 17 feet, the worst he can do is lose more money. He's aware of that and he can't wait to get stuck in. That being so, I stand by the comments I made to him.

As for keeping Mrs Jamie happy, a good friend of mine sails a 21 footer, alone. His wife used to go with him but no longer does on account of too small, too uncomfortable, bucket for heads etc.

All the best Jamie.

 

[ashtead]

Having started sailing cruisers like many in the Centaur and then later in life bought 10.8 Bav and moved up to 12.8 now and met a variety of sailing types each you meet has their own personal journey and desires. Some things are easier at the larger end for longer sailing adventures as the boat is more stable, has more kit and comfort but along with this is more cost and maintenance. This all really turns on what you want to get out of sailing for next ten years and then into retirement. Remember also actions of others such as parents and children can change plans quickly however it can take some time to sell a yacht in such scenario.
Chartering in med is an ideal way of gaining a soft introduction to cruising for a family crew as are sailing holidays with day sailing from land based accommodation. In present climate this might not be so doable but maybe a weeks sailing on Norfolk broads is a route in current world.
get outto as many secondhand boat shows as you can to to see manky old boats and see what features you like eg centre or aft cockpit, lifting keel, etc. Your needs for a 2 year adventure around say the med would be satisfied as a couple by an older Moody 376 or such like but maybe you have greater plans and you want to cross oceans when your needs might be greater?
just be sure all your family share your vision as sailing to some is enjoying a day sail while others long for14 hours to the West Country so draw up alist of expectations. Family sailing on your own boat is immensely rewarding but only if needs of all are being met so draw up a list for all as to what they want to get from sailing otherwise you might spend a long time searching for theunattainable.

 

[Vid]

Jamie - I, for one, think you're doing the right thing - whatever boat you buy you will learn a lot, so may as well choose one you like. A (rich) mate of mine bought a brand new Beneteau 523 as his first yacht and managed perfectly well with it, using it to learn on and then went off on some interesting trips with him and his wife, plus even did a bit of racing on it.

Are you going to be based on the East Coast? If so then have a think about the draft and keel of the boat you pick: the waters around here are shallow and a deep draft does limit you to high tides in certain places, eg the Swin Spitway, which can be material when passage planning. Have a look at lifting keels (an option that is available for Jeanneau) or twin keel boats.

If you're budgeting in that range you have an awful lot of choice, for a first boat I'd concentrate on something low maintenance, easy sail handling and good electronic chart plotters. A heater will be a useful addition to extend the sailing season too. I think the modern Jeanneau are lovely boats, we had a 379 on charter in Corsica one year and it sailed really well. You won't go wrong with any modern Jeanneau, Beneteau, Hanse, Bavaria, Dufour or others in terms of sailing ability, build quality, strength or durability, but do take a careful look at the status, spec and make of things like sails, winches, deck gear, batteries, and other bits that are on the boat but not actually the boat itself as that's where you can end up with an awful lot of post-purchase costs if they need fixing/replacing.

By the way, there's a good article in Practical Boat Owner this week about the alternative to buying a newer boat - get an older one then do a quick refit so you have an as-new boat but with a lot of the depreciation taken care of - you get the benefit of really knowing your boat, and could well pay less for a better overall boat.

 

[stu9000]

I'm honestly not being poncy here but you need some experience to know what kind of sailing you want to do.
You might be a weeks-at-a-time-at-sea kind of sailor or you might be a coastal hopper where the real joy is pottering about in a river rather than long passages. Then there is the boat. Bigger is more comfortable and feels safer at sea. But they are harder to manoeuvre in a marina (even with a bow thruster). Are you going 'Delos' and stick with the monohull or 'Vagabond' and do the Catamaran thing? Only experience will allow you to answer that.

You've got 10 years to feel you way so why not get 30Ks worth of boat like this one?
Westerly Seahawk 34 Used Boat for Sale 1986 | TheYachtMarket
I have a Westerly Seahawk (I keep her right outside Chatham). A 30 to 35 footer is plenty big enough to be safe and comfortable but still (just about) small enough to single hand. You could easily do a weekend cruise up the coast to the Orwell, or over to France. Spend a week or so pottering about the channel islands etc. Unless you really ding it you will probably sell it without too much depreciation.

Good luck in your adventure and see you on the Medway

 

[Jamiekent]

I hear everything that's said here. I'd only respond that it was obvious from Jamie's first post that this is what he's going to do. He wasn't asking for advice on whether he should buy a "big boat", he was asking for advice on which one. He's going about it the right way by going on a course which is more than Mary Unwin did. He's no more or less likely to come to harm in 36 than 17 feet, the worst he can do is lose more money. He's aware of that and he can't wait to get stuck in. That being so, I stand by the comments I made to him.

As for keeping Mrs Jamie happy, a good friend of mine sails a 21 footer, alone. His wife used to go with him but no longer does on account of too small, too uncomfortable, bucket for heads etc.

All the best Jamie.

fantastic message thank you

 

[Just_sayin']

The difference between a 33' boat and a 46' boat is like comparing a maisonette to a four bedroom house.

Have you been on both sizes to compare?

 

[jac]

My 2p.

Don't buy the boat you think you'll want in 8 years time.

But also - don;t go buying a cheap 32 or less footer.

By all means try and get onto lots of boats to get a feel but I would look to spend £50-£60k on something well equipped and maintained around 35-36 foot will plenty of home comforts ( heating, hot water etc) and no more than about 5 years old. When you come to sell you won't have lost as much as a brand new boat will have depreciated , the gear will still be virtually problem free and you should have avoided major costs for replacements. Your yard bills will be smaller, handling easier and more places to get into than a 40 footer. Equally it will be large enough, new enough and comfortable enough to avoid putting you both off.

Sell it maybe 2 years before you go and with your experience as a couple you will have a much better idea of the long term boat

 

[Sharky34]

That doesn't seem to be a rule, unless it's changed. I booked a Comp Crew course and ended up on a course with two would be Coastal Skippers and two Comp Crews. It was the first time I'd set foot on a yacht. When I saw what was expected of the Coastals, which was basically the same the CCs, plus nav, met and tidal calculations, having done nav & met before as pilot training, albeit a while ago, I asked if I could upgrade to Dazed Kipper. The instructor was dubious, but allowed it. In the end, the only reason he didn't give me a Coastal Skipper ticket was because I wouldn't lie about experience.

There are up to 5 students on an RYA course & the instructor needs to share his time going over practical stuff.
If someone doesn't know the theory, that person is robbing time from the other students, because the instructor now has to teach the theory as well.

 

[Sharky34]

When buying, ask yourself, 'do I prefer to have a wheel or tiller'?
That might then determine which size you should consider buying.

 

[convey]

I don't know, I'm finding it difficult to take seriously it's so unrealistic.

We could have gotten into stuff like bermuda versus ketch, but have you told us what you actually want to do with it in the meanwhile?

 

[Fr J Hackett]

The simple answer is that he doesn't know what he doesn't know.

The choices are endless, he could buy a moderate mass produced 35 footer for half his budget and sell in 8 years and probably lose half of what it has cost him but he will probably have saved on marina costs and as long as he doesn't go splashing the cash on nice to have shined new plotters just because they are the latest he should minimise the losses. Then in 8 years he can set about buying and equipping what he needs for his voyage.
Or he can buy the boat that he is fixated on which will be 15 years old when he decides to go for it and will require a lot spending on it to bring it up to scratch in 8 years time having spent significant chunks of money in marina costs in the meantime. It will be pointless trying to equip the boat for the proposed voyage whilst he is learning to sail and handle the boat better to do it in the couple of years before he leaves.

So my choice would be the former and in the intervening 8 years speak to people look at different boats and what they can do and can't and preferably sail them. Experience different conditions and then decide is that world cruise for you. See if you can look at a Jeanneau 379 that has spent several years on charter, for me and it's personal it wouldn't be my 1st choice but for marina hopping in the Med there is absolutely nothing wrong with it but I wouldn't want to take it down to Patagonia and perhaps the OP wouldn't want to go there either.
As I said he doesn't know what he doesn't know and neither do we.

 

[Babylon]

Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favour, and recall information that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values. It is an important type of cognitive bias that has a significant effect on the proper functioning of society by distorting evidence-based decision-making. Wikipedia



echo chamber - an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered.

 

[Wansworth]

How ever did we manage to make desicion about anything prior to internet,as a rule of thumb the more people you ask the more different answers you get.

 

[KompetentKrew]

How ever did we manage to make desicion about anything prior to internet,as a rule of thumb the more people you ask the more different answers you get.

I believe this to be especially true of sailors - ask N sailors for advice and you will receive at least N+1 opinions.

 

[Babylon]

How ever did we manage to make decision about anything prior to internet, as a rule of thumb the more people you ask the more different answers you get.

1. We still asked the question, it just took longer to get a sufficient number of answers before we could make a meaningful analysis and final decision.

2. You will always get a diversity of opinions, but the rational way to then go about making a decision is to group the answers into the majority opinion - which will still differ slightly from others within the group but which will carry the greatest weight due to reason, hard-won experience, etc - versus a minority of dissenting or alternative opinions. The minority views mustn't be rejected out of hand, but need to be tested against the majority view, etc.

As individuals we're all motivated and proceed in different ways: some are coldly logical in their approach, others are more romantic by temperament and throw themselves into something new with happy abandon.

But if you know bu88er all about something and ask a lot of people who do for their opinions, then its perverse to ignore virtually everyone except the one person who confirms your own initial uninformed and totally inexperienced view!

 

[Juan Twothree]

Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favour, and recall information that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values. It is an important type of cognitive bias that has a significant effect on the proper functioning of society by distorting evidence-based decision-making. Wikipedia

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echo chamber - an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered.

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You've pretty much hit the nail on the head. The OP is only listening to what he wants to hear.

 

[ridgy]

I don't know why all the hand wringing. The Jeanneau 34 that he desires is a perfectly fine boat for holidays, not too big for learning, and more importantly floats his wife's inner boat so he should go buy one and crack on. The marine industry needs people like him so what's not to like. If they like it they can lose some money and buy a bigger one or if they hate it they can lose the same money and take up golf but in any case it will be an adventure and he will have scratched his itch. "Do you remember that time we bought that yacht" etc.

 

[Catalina36]

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head. The OP is only listening to what he wants to hear.

You both seem to have lost sight of the OP's request:

"I would like some advice and feedback from you experts in here please on what would be a good boat to buy based on needs, usage and budget. " and then gives a list of possible boats.

NOT

"I would like some advice and feedback from you experts in here please on whether or not I should buy a boat at all and if so whether it ought to be a big expensive one or a small cheap one".

You're just projecting your own bias.

Just answer the question.