Brokers / Surveys / Disclosure information

[Minerva]

A few months ago I had survey done on a boat that was "all good, just some minor cosmetic TLC needed" according to broker. That ended up, as the surveyor discovered having completely rotten bulkheads amongst other significant defects.

I spoke to another broker about A N Other boat thats been on his books for a few months and asked if there had been any recent interest / surveys completed - he advised that the most recent one was when the seller bought the boat but the boats' in good condition.

Now I completely understand the when I had a survey carried out on the previous boat, I retained ownership of the survey. I also understand that if I were to view this new boat in person I would be able to see if it had been surveyed due to a few bald rectangles in the antifouling. However this boat is 300 miles away...

Question being, if asked, is a broker duty bound to disclose if a recent survey has been completed by a prospective party but the sale has not gone through / the buyer has walked away?

Thanks

 

[Irish Rover]

Unless the broker is a complete shyster he can't lie to you so it's important to ask the right questions.

 

[Tranona]

Broker has an obligation to give a truthful answer to a question. So he should say yes or no to a simple question. However he does not "own" a survey so has no obligation to give you details.

 

[jwilson]

If we ( Yachtsnet ) are selling a boat that has had a recent survey for a buyer who pulled out, we will tell the next potential buyer, and give them a verbal summary of what was found. Often what would be a deal-breaker for one person is a lesser problem for another. It is in no-one's interest for buyers to travel often long distances to find problems that the seller and broker already knew about. That's also why we state the dates of our photos.

 

[Irish Rover]

If we ( Yachtsnet ) are selling a boat that has had a recent survey for a buyer who pulled out, we will tell the next potential buyer, and give them a verbal summary of what was found. Often what would be a deal-breaker for one person is a lesser problem for another. It is in no-one's interest for buyers to travel often long distances to find problems that the seller and broker already knew about. That's also why we state the dates of our photos.

Excellent. Just one question. At what stage would you tell about the survey. If I cold call you and say "I saw X for sale, can you tell me more about it" - would you tell me there and then on the phone?

 

[Minerva]

Thank you all. I’ll wind back my cynicism a notch.

 

[Caer Urfa]

Any survey always belongs to the person who ask and paid for it,
I tell all new buyers if they see a boat for sale they like ask for a copy of any surveys old or recent as its amazing what you find

If a boat has copper bottomed antifoul a surveyor will not make coupons (scrape small sections for his moisture meter to read through) so always ask before about antifoul type

Sadly like everything there are good and bad yacht brokers and any reputable one should provide a copy and always say if there has been a recent survey no matter what the findings were.
Personally I advise anyone buying a boat of significant value to have there own survey for peace of mind

 

[jwilson]

Excellent. Just one question. At what stage would you tell about the survey. If I cold call you and say "I saw X for sale, can you tell me more about it" - would you tell me there and then on the phone?

Over the phone - a summary of what was found. Certainly long before any arrangements were made for you to go and view the boat.

We frequently do not have the full survey - just extracts from the buyer confirming that there are "material defects" as described in the contract, and hence grounds for the failure of the sale and the return of the buyer's deposit (after we have checked that the lift fee and surveyors bill have been paid). I don't enjoy failed sales after survey. I try and go over each boat in enough detail to anticipate what a surveyor will find, but if a boat is afloat and something is only found on lift for survey ....

 

[Irish Rover]

Over the phone - a summary of what was found. Certainly long before any arrangements were made for you to go and view the boat.

We frequently do not have the full survey - just extracts from the buyer confirming that there are "material defects" as described in the contract, and hence grounds for the failure of the sale and the return of the buyer's deposit (after we have checked that the lift fee and surveyors bill have been paid). I don't enjoy failed sales after survey. I try and go over each boat in enough detail to anticipate what a surveyor will find, but if a boat is afloat and something is only found on lift for survey ....

Thank you. It would be a great benefit and bonus to the industry if all brokers were as scrupulous and forthcoming as you.

 

[steveeasy]

Over the phone - a summary of what was found. Certainly long before any arrangements were made for you to go and view the boat.

We frequently do not have the full survey - just extracts from the buyer confirming that there are "material defects" as described in the contract, and hence grounds for the failure of the sale and the return of the buyer's deposit (aftafter we have checked that the lift fee and surveyors bill have been paid)er we have checked that the lift fee and surveyors bill have been paid). I don't enjoy failed sales after survey. I try and go over each boat in enough detail to anticipate what a surveyor will find, but if a boat is afloat and something is only found on lift for survey ....

I’ve read this a few times and don’t quite understand. What reference to the following do you mean.
aftafter we have checked that the lift fee and surveyors bill have been paid. These are the buyers responsibility. Genuinely I don’t understand what this has to do with another interested buyer.
Steveeasy

 

[Tranona]

I’ve read this a few times and don’t quite understand. What reference to the following do you mean.
aftafter we have checked that the lift fee and surveyors bill have been paid. These are the buyers responsibility. Genuinely I don’t understand what this has to do with another interested buyer.
Steveeasy

It is not unknown for the potential buyer to walk away leaving the yard bill unpaid and/or not pay the surveyor. The deposit from the buyer is partly to ensure this does not happen as any outstanding bills can be paid out of the deposit before it is returned. In most cases there is no problem, but it is the duty of the broker to ensure that his client (and his boat) is free of any potential charges.

 

[zoidberg]

I note the comment above about 'there are good brokers and bad brokers'. Here's some redacted comment made by a friend, via a different forum, in recent communication with an intermediary or broker NOT a member of the ABYA

"The reason this deal fell through is because of your business model. Under normal conditions most people would view the boat, make a decision on a survey or not. They would then pay a deposit to have the survey. If no survey needed they may have what I will call a in depth look at the boat and then pay the final amount. All monies would be paid into the brokers holding account. What caused the red flag to start with was you wanting me to pay money to the owner in two separate amounts on different days, that is most unusual. I have never heard of that way of doing things, that is why I wanted to do all the payments through you, to put into your holding account.

At no point that I remember was it mentioned that any money paid to you was going into a private account. I still do not understand why after paying a deposit you wanted two further payments instead of just one to complete the deal. YOU WANTING THREE PAYMENTS AND PUTTING MONEY INTO A PRIVATE ACCOUNT caused the Red Flag problem with the bank, and the bank involving the police. Even on your own web site you say how a broker should conduct the sale of a boat. You were also putting time constraints on payments there for trying to put pressure on me. If this is your usual way of doing busyness I am shocked you have not had problems in the past. I will not be contacting you again."

The prospective purchaser, a friend, was about to undertake a more than 450 mile/7hrs30 drive to view and 'complete'.

Caveat emptor indeed!