Boat not been lifted for 9 years- advice sought regarding purchase

[Spyro]

IMHO too many people willing to write this boat off. Even looking at it as a project it could be a good boat if the price is right.
Why is everyone assuming osmosis? Loads also saying plenty boats available I just don't think that is the case. If you want a certain boat at a certain price the numbers are usually pretty limited.
What I would do is talk to the owner say interested but only at a price. If its possible then go see it. If not walk away.
It needs some honesty and negotiation before travelling.

 

[yoda]

I flew to Dublin and then drove to Scotland to find the right boat. Sometimes you just have to do that to get what you want and assumptions about the condition based on a few facts can be misleading. Well done to the man(or woman) who is going to take a quick look for the OP. That is what I like about the forum.

Yoda

 

[LittleSister]

Hah. I drove 100 miles each way to see a boat which the selling broker - one of the biggest on the Clyde - assured me was constantly maintained. When I got there he admitted that the owner had practically abandoned her. She was bright green, the galley lockers were full of water which had been coming through the deck or coachroof and a hole in the nice teak/holly floor had been mended by having a 6" square of rough ply screwed over it.

i once drove 240 miles each way for an appointment to see a boat with a well know Essex brokerage, who had described in writing 'well maintained'. As we approached its nearby mud berth, from a good distance I could see that the coloured GRP hull was very faded, as we got closer all the running rigging was obviously faded and grubby. (Neither a deal breaker, but. . . .) We went aboard and found it full of muddy water up to several inches above the cabin sole. The broker pumped on the bilge pump, but it didn't work. Fortunately there was a second one that did, though the inlet was too poorly positioned to get all the water out. The prominent battery was unsecured except by the two long, thin, straggly, poorly connected electric cables. Obviously it was not the boat for me, which was just as well, as the broker then announced that we'd have to leave sharpish otherwise we'd be cut off by the tide.

The next week another broker sent me details of the same boat, and also described it as 'well maintained'.

 

[Lakesailor]

Apart from the fact that the boat will need a lot of titivation, judging by the pics (and it didn't look as bad as I imagined it would) a good going over would probably produce a To-Do list as long as your arm. Photos never tell the whole story. Even if the cost was reflected in the price, there is still all the work to physically do, which is a cost to yourself and if the boat is to be moored in Wales there is either the transport and lifting or the time to sail her around (not forgetting that most of the fettling will need to be done on a boat 250 miles away, before you put to sea).

I looked over a boat up here for some west Country forumites. It was OK-ish, and the price was low, but the sum of all the titivation, plus the transport costs didn't outweigh the higher price of a similar (but better) boat close by to them.

 

[Keith 66]

As a boatbuilder who has rebuilt several old yachts for himself i would make the following comments.
Dont assume Osmosis or that its the end of the world. Last boat i restored was a 1971 Sabre 27, she had been in a mud berth since 1982 only being hauled out for one weekend a year for antifouling. When we bought her 5 years ago she had been out the water a couple of months. She was very cheap indeed but i should have offered the bloke even less! In the event once back at the club i borrowed a moisture meter & checked her over plus several sister ships. Much to my surprise her hull was the driest of them all probably due to an excellent osmosis job done by Berthons back in 1980.
However the rudder & skeg were terminally osmotic & had to be replaced.
Even though the HR in question was a quality boat to start with it is now old & very tired. To bring any boat like this back to a similar quality level as it was built to is simply totally uneconomic. It will likely need new stern gear, new fuel system, new engine, a rewire, instruments, seacocks, plumbing, rigging, sails, windows, the teak deck will be buggered, where do you stop.
Even if the boat is on your doorstep & you have the skills yourself to do it all its going to take a lot of time, years in fact. And the cost is going to mount & mount
Even if she was bought for a few grand it would still cost more to refit properly than to buy a reasonable one to start with. Best bet is to find a decent boat that some mug like me has spent the time & money on already!

 

[jwilson]

I think the boat shown in the earlier links is actually a Nab 35 rather than a Hallberg-Rassy Rasmus. They share the same hull moulded by HR in Sweden, but the deck/coachroof is very different and the complete fitout of the Nab 35 was done by Freeman Yachts in Southampton. Hulls are very heavily built in solid glass so a feasible DIY sort-out project if you have a year or two to work on it. Obviously old teak decks a potential difficult/very expensive problem.

The lack of detail and inaccuracies in the adverts is however a BIG red flag.....

 

[Skylark]

.
Even if she was bought for a few grand it would still cost more to refit properly than to buy a reasonable one to start with. Best bet is to find a decent boat that some mug like me has spent the time & money on already!

Good advice.

In the 1990s, I couldn't find a UK boat within my budget and in good condition (by my standards), despite travelling far and wide to view a few. I even travelled to Sweden to look at one............and bought her! Quite a challenge to get her to UK shores but a great adventure, too.

 

[dave220]

Many thanks for all the good advice. A very kind gentelman from this forum has offered to take a quick look for me so I will post his findings when i know more
Dave

 

[CreakyDecks]

@lydiamight
Maybe because they take photos years before they put them up for sale?

 

[jwilson]

@lydiamight
Maybe because they take photos years before they put them up for sale?

When we ( http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/ ) take photos to sell boats we put a note on the web page about when they were taken. And our brokerage boats are tidied first - eg http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/boats/s26215/images/saloon-wa-ss.jpg !

 

[JumbleDuck]

When we ( http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/ ) take photos to sell boats we put a note on the web page about when they were taken. And our brokerage boats are tidied first - eg http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/boats/s26215/images/saloon-wa-ss.jpg !

Your pictures are always exemplary. If only other brokers - and most private sellers - were as assiduous.

 

[Daydream believer]

When we ( http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/ ) take photos to sell boats we put a note on the web page about when they were taken. And our brokerage boats are tidied first - eg http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/boats/s26215/images/saloon-wa-ss.jpg !

is that the one that has been in the water for 9 years unloved though?

 

[Lakesailor]

i once drove 240 miles each way for an appointment to see a boat with a well know Essex brokerage, who had described in writing 'well maintained'.

Was it a "seedy" brokerage.

 

[EuanMcKenzie]

if its that boat ... I have one of those so could ask a few questions and add a few comments

Has it been epoxied and copper antifouled so didnt need lifted for antifouling

My Rasmus has no underwater anodes as standard - It has four in the engine cooling water system two in the salt and two in the fresh. has it been owned for 9 years or laid up for nine years. Mine had been out of use for circa 3 with half of that in the water and didn't present a problem as sails had been stowed etc. I haggled a deal because it was superficially shabby even though it was structurally sound.

When I got it going the engine heat exchanger needed a rebuild as it overheated badly

Has it been re-engined. A new heat exchanger for the original MD21A is four figures if you can find one.

The earlier boats have GRP decks and teak was an option. I prefer not having the worry of a teak deck so that would put me off!

If its a serious sale i would phone up and ask to speak to the vendor and find out the full story. How much use its had why its always in the water etc. No story then forget it.

What do you want it for. I might still be the wrong boat for you. They are a pig to reverse!

PM me if this is what you are looking and want to pick my brains

 

[Jim@sea]

Sometimes its not what the boat costs is how much money you have to spend. On this boat I would offer £10,000 and expect to spend another £10,000.= £12,000
But only after you have paid to have it lifted out and had a look at the hull and heard the engine running. Its a nice big boat and a quality make, when finished the boat will/should be worth £20,000. Its 35 years old now, keep it 10 years and if its still in good condition you should get your £10K back.
It could be a lot of boat for little money.
You of course will not be going sailing this year in it, I would be inclined to look at it as a 2 year project.
(Ps I once bought a 73 boat (another make) with a teak deck, what I did not realise that it was only the hull which was GRP the teak deck was laid on a wooden deck and the wood was going soft (which the surveyor missed) later boats of this make had a GRP superstructure on which the teak decks are laid. Much better.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

I have seen the price of Rivals fall dramatically in the last few years and as an owner of an old yacht, a Rival, I think perfectly justifiable in this day and age. I don't think Osmosis will be an issue on this old yacht and the engine is probably serviceable if it is of the same vintage as well. The big issue is hoses, electrics and general worn out stuff such as bilge pumps, bunk lamps, cookers, batteries. The small stuff adds up to a considerable sum of money while the overhead continues to be paid (unless you can store it for free). The big stuff like engines, rigging and osmosis will not be an issue (could be though), it is the zombie apocalypse advance of many small things that kills the wallet. Expect much, much more of the same now that the new mass produced yachts are at the same price as so called quality old boats were just a few years ago.

I don't like this particular class or style of yacht but I would price it at £9k to sell. It is the only realistic option. So, don't expect it to be a bargain, it will cost far more than you think, the small stuff kills you financially, it can be great fun doing up an old boat, it takes far longer than you think, sailing it now for a few seasons and getting by will just trash it further and possibly demoralise you when the inevitable expense is looming.

 

[NormanS]

Oh Deary me, what a lot of negativity.

 

[Niffler]

Oh Deary me, what a lot of negativity.

Yes, but it's not a very nice boat. Maybe it could be, but it will take more money to sort than it will ever be worth and more time than you will ever spend sailing it. If you like hard work and have an interest in boat-rebuilding then it could be a goer.

 

[Jim@sea]

Oh Deary me, what a lot of negativity.

It isent Negativy its reality.

 

[Ludd]

I think the boat shown in the earlier links is actually a Nab 35 rather than a Hallberg-Rassy Rasmus. They share the same hull moulded by HR in Sweden, but the deck/coachroof is very different and the complete fitout of the Nab 35 was done by Freeman Yachts in Southampton. Hulls are very heavily built in solid glass so a feasible DIY sort-out project if you have a year or two to work on it. Obviously old teak decks a potential difficult/very expensive problem.

The lack of detail and inaccuracies in the adverts is however a BIG red flag.....

Deck and coachrooF of NAB and Rasmus are identical. Never seen a ketch rigged NAB, pretty sure all were sloops.
It's an old boat, of course it will need work,and it will not be a short term proposition. It has had the engine replaced at some time. Bought at the right price, and transported to a convenient area to work on it, who knows?
I f the OP wants that style of boat, then there are not many of them around for sale ,normally. When I bought mine 11 years ago ,I looked at 3 0thers. One Rasmus ketch had been "improved by present owner". MDF ruled !