Boat not been lifted for 9 years- advice sought regarding purchase

[savageseadog]

I would take the view that all boats will require work however new they are. As for it not being lifted for nine years, who cares? if it hasn't got osmosis now it never will have. Realistically, what's it worth in good order? Take away the cost of repairs and replacements, take away something for the trouble and that's what it's worth. The advantage of doing things this way is that you will have a boat for the summer assuming it's basically working and things can only get better.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I would take the view that all boats will require work however new they are. As for it not being lifted for nine years, who cares? if it hasn't got osmosis now it never will have. Realistically, what's it worth in good order? Take away the cost of repairs and replacements, take away something for the trouble and that's what it's worth. The advantage of doing things this way is that you will have a boat for the summer assuming it's basically working and things can only get better.

Sense!

It's amazing how many people assume that when they buy a new house they will need a new kitchen, as if the previous occupants had all died of starvation for lack of cooking facilities.

 

[EuanMcKenzie]

ethe only way to really know is to look at it long and hard

personally i think something as important as your next boat is worth travelling to look at.

Have you contacted the vendor and asked for a copy of the last insurance survey, records of when standing rigging was last looked at. also what parts have been replaced etc in the more recent past. i would expect a boat that age to have been at least partially rewired by now.

There are lots of good owners out there who care for their MABs. Find out if he is one and move on he isn't

Someone is going for a look. The facts will speak for themselves. Everything beyond that is speculation.

Tell us when you get the report and facts from the man who is looking at it

 

[fireball]

Sense!

It's amazing how many people assume that when they buy a new house they will need a new kitchen, as if the previous occupants had all died of starvation for lack of cooking facilities.

If you'd seen our house before we bought you'd understand why it was 3 months before we moved in.....

 

[Niffler]

If you'd seen our house before we bought you'd understand why it was 3 months before we moved in.....

Duckie would have been in from day one, no kitchen, no bathroom, no problem...

 

[fireball]

Duckie would have been in from day one, no kitchen, no bathroom, no problem...

No kitchen, no bathroom, no heating, practically no windows - in mid winter .... we moved in with the in-laws for 3 months as they were just down the road (and had space) - we then had an empty house to refurbish - no clutter, no day2day living requirements - much easier for the plumber to get the gas and heating in, window fitters to fit the new windows, carpet layer to get the carpet down and us to paint every room ...
Don't really have that issue with a boat - it's quite easy to strip it and clean out ...

 

[BrianH]

There's truth there, but a nicely sorted Rasmus from that era gets advertised as we've seen for £28,000 - sale price about £25,000? To get the one this chap is looking at to that spec will costs a skilled bloke hundreds of hours and maybe £7,000 or an unskilled one about £15,000 in bills but if that teak deck is gone.......gee wiz what's that gonna cost? It's fair isn't it to point that out to the OP? If he thinks a price of £15,000 is a bargain he's very much mistaken.

As much as he will pay for the boat itself, whatever price he can negotiate down to. If the deck is the original then the odds are that it is well past its replacement date. My 1981 HR has the original deck but it has been at its end-of-life condition for many years now. Only a total winter cover and warm sunny summers that dry out any wetness keep it hanging on.

The solution, simple and cheap, is what a Monsun-owner friend did and is on my 'to-do' list; rip it all off and cover with a good quality deck paint like KiwiGrip. It looked good, was cooler in the Mediterranean sun and, when he died and his widow needed to sell, was not the price-lowering leverage an old teak deck would have been. Of course, only possible when laid on a sound, GRP base deck surface.

 

[Reptile Smile]

Just wanted to say how much I've enjoyed, respected and agreed with JumleDuck on this thread. My experience I'm not sure is comparable, but I've now bought 5 boats in 4 years, all under £600 (the same £600 - I sold one to buy the next) - a Foxcub, a Caprice, an Eventide, a Hurley 20, and, since this weekend, an Achilles 24. All them were old bangers. In esch one, I thought, ooh, I could change this, and do that. And never do...

In that time, on them, I've sailed 650 miles, skippering 500 of them, and single handing 450 of them. I think this isn't bad, but don't know what's normal, but 160 miles a year is more than many, I suspect. I think the idea of the economics of boat ownership sometimes focuses on the wrong thing, and it's not so much about, "buy it for this, sell it for that..." A far more telling and sobering figure is to divide your yearly expenditure by the number of days sailed. For most people, that's a quite horrifying figure. And, of course, that's fine. People should spend their money on what makes them happy. I wouldn't dream of aski whether I should buy a boat on here - no offence to anyone, but I would be roundly damned for spending £600 on boats and expecting them to sail.

And yet, 650 miles later...

 

[JumbleDuck]

Duckie would have been in from day one, no kitchen, no bathroom, no problem...

Perhaps I didn't explain properly, or maybe you read something you wanted to in my words. My bafflement is not about people who want a kitchen, which seems perfectly reasonable, but about people who automatically assume that they will need a new kitchen as soon as they move in. The same sort of people happily sail a boat with ten year old electronics, buy a boat with ten year old electronics and immediately think "Golly, the ten year old electronics in my new boat must be replaced at once or I will die." Then then market their old boat "... with fully set of (ten year old) electronics".

 

[JumbleDuck]

Just wanted to say how much I've enjoyed, respected and agreed with JumleDuck on this thread.

<blush>

Token invisible text

 

[dave220]

I have now heard from the kind forum member who viewed this boat and took pictures for me. As suspected she sounds very tired with no real maintenance other than new fuel filters since the bloke owned her. Certainly nothing like he described her to me. I have been in contact with the owner and explained why I wouldn't be interested unless there was a substantial price reduction. I am sure she could be a good enough boat again but with the amount and cost of the work, travel distance etc she isn't for me.
A lot of people on here seemed to be correct about the hull, it looked in good order with minimal growth although obviously a full out of the water survey may reveal more. Teak deck was shot, running rigging filthy and obviously very old, sails worn and requiring replacement, unknown age of standing rigging..... the list goes on!
Thanks very much for all your advice, it was all appreciated
Regards Dave

 

[EuanMcKenzie]

with that lot i would do the same

Mine looked scruffy with mostly peeling varnish but had had money invested in half the stuff listed above including sails.

You would find many others things were too near end of life and it would just frustrate you. a steady bit of improvement and repair is one thing and a floating project is quite another

 

[Niffler]

That knackered teak deck puts her in negative value territory, unless you are skilled and don't factor in your time.

 

[JumbleDuck]

That knackered teak deck puts her in negative value territory, unless you are skilled and don't factor in your time.

Absolutely. In the circumstances it was worth a look, but old teak decks are things to run, not walk, away from.

 

[Tranona]

Absolutely. In the circumstances it was worth a look, but old teak decks are things to run, not walk, away from.

Not necessarily. Relatively easy to strip them off, make good and coat with something like Kiwigrip. A bit of work but very effective. ScottyTradewind who posts here did it on his Tradewind 33 that he bought with with knackered decks.

It is only a big expensive problem if you want to lay a new teak deck. That model of HR is probably better without teak anyway.

 

[NormanS]

Not necessarily. Relatively easy to strip them off, make good and coat with something like Kiwigrip. A bit of work but very effective. ScottyTradewind who posts here did it on his Tradewind 33 that he bought with with knackered decks.

It is only a big expensive problem if you want to lay a new teak deck. That model of HR is probably better without teak anyway.

"Relatively easy to strip them off"?
That depends on how the teak was fastened down originally. Fair enough if it was fixed down to a ply base, which has probably rotted anyway, but I can tell you that if the teak was glued down direct to the deck moulding with epoxy resin, only blood, sweat, and tears will remove it.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Not necessarily. Relatively easy to strip them off, make good and coat with something like Kiwigrip.

Hmm. From all I read, it's the stripping off the old one which is the problem. Either you have to undo thousands of screws, many/most of which will round or break, or you have to deal with many square metres of glue. Putting on a new teak deck is both the easy bit and, because of the labour involved in the first half, the cheap(-ish) one. Of course it's possible and is regularly done, but if you don't have either a lot of spare time or a lot fo spare money, I think it's an excellent reason to look elsewhere.

 

[Niffler]

Not necessarily. Relatively easy to strip them off, make good and coat with something like Kiwigrip. A bit of work

A bit of work? :very_drunk::very_drunk::very_drunk:

 

[doug748]

Thanks for getting back dave220.

It was worth investigation; if you had not done your due diligence, you would have been haunted by the thought you had missed a bargain.

I sometimes think that the best boats reside on proper broker's books but also at the highest prices. The iffy ones find their way onto the internet sites, we all know the ones. It is a sort of tacit admission that the boat is not worth spending the brokers commission to sell. Not that this should stop anyone buying but I think the trick is to buy one with only a single major problem and a lot of positives.

Soggy deck, failing teak, knackered engine, wet hull are fine, for an otherwise good boat. Nobody would want to tackle the lot. Good luck for your next move.

 

[Tranona]

"Relatively easy to strip them off"?
That depends on how the teak was fastened down originally. Fair enough if it was fixed down to a ply base, which has probably rotted anyway, but I can tell you that if the teak was glued down direct to the deck moulding with epoxy resin, only blood, sweat, and tears will remove it.

Think that you will find that boat has the deck just screwed on a bed of sealer. Sure its a lot of screws to come out, but the teak should come up. As you would want to fill and fair you can be quite brutal taking it off. Although a lot of manual work, the cost is minimal compared with replacing the deck with new teak - not something I would recommend anybody doing if they have not done it before.

The point is that anybody taking on a worn out boat like that must be prepared for a lot of work and compared with other jobs on the boat this one is not that onerous, and would probably enhance the boat more than expenditure on other items.