Boat not been lifted for 9 years- advice sought regarding purchase

[Lakesailor]

The point is that anybody taking on a worn out boat like that must be prepared for a lot of work

I don't think that was part of the OP's plan

will she need a ridiculous amount of work to get her seaworthy again?

 

[Tranona]

I don't think that was part of the OP's plan

Wasn't looking at it from the OP's point of view - as you say, he had already made hiss position clear. I was responding to the comment that a knackered teak deck was a death knell.

In my view an about to be knackered deck is the worst, because it can still look good and the seller thinks it is good, but will actually need serious work in the near future. At least with a clearly knackered deck you know something has to be done and the boat is priced accordingly. On the type of boat in question a new deck is never going to enhance its value sufficiently to justify the cost, but doing as I suggested would at least make the boat much more usable.

 

[BrianH]

"Relatively easy to strip them off"?
That depends on how the teak was fastened down originally. Fair enough if it was fixed down to a ply base, which has probably rotted anyway, but I can tell you that if the teak was glued down direct to the deck moulding with epoxy resin, only blood, sweat, and tears will remove it.

As I commented in post #87, my friend did it fairly painlessly with a HR Monsun. I too have replaced 10mm teak planks plus re-bedded countless screws where the plugs have worn thin and fallen out. All screws in my 1981 HR deck have unscrewed easily from the GRP deck. The planks are bedded on a very thin silicon base that, over the years has hardened and shrunk, from which the planks lift easily away; the silicon no longer adheres much to anything. I have no qualms about taking off the lot in a few hours; only prior removal of the deck fittings will be onerous - but I've done that before when I had to remove an earlier abortive 'solution' of a Coelan coating. Then it's just a job of epoxying the screw-holes, fairing them down and painting.

The Hallberg Rassys of that period were built with an integral GRP deck and the teak planks screwed down on a silicon bed. This was an insane system of placing all that weight too high for optimal stability and drilling holes into a perfectly watertight deck to screw the planks onto it - a time-bomb of rot and leakage ticking away as the silicon inevitably hardens and loses its watertight capability and when the caulking starts to lose its grip on the planking and lets the water through to seep between wood and fibreglass deck.

I have a retired German friend in my Italian marina who is a former Rassy employee who was working in the company at the time when the company became Hallberg-Rassy on moving into the old Hallberg premises at Ellös in 1972 when Harry Hallberg retired. What he told me was that the company had serious problems laying teak decks on fibreglass, eventually deciding that there were no logical grounds for it and, for a short while, produced yachts with non-teak decks. However, most customers demanded that their boat had a teak deck and it became apparent that a boat builder of expensive, quality yachts wasn't going to survive without a teak deck on his boats. HR returned to producing teak-decked yachts as standard, but during the 1970s there was a mix - with and without teak decks - produced.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The point is that anybody taking on a worn out boat like that must be prepared for a lot of work and compared with other jobs on the boat this one is not that onerous ...

I think general opinion is against you here. There may be some boats on which lifting a teak deck is a doddle, but the feedback is almost invariably "Worst. Job. Ever." And even worse if you are trying to prepare it for a painted finish, because even Kiwigrip can't cover up ruddy great gouges and holes. Can it?

 

[Tranona]

I think general opinion is against you here. There may be some boats on which lifting a teak deck is a doddle, but the feedback is almost invariably "Worst. Job. Ever." And even worse if you are trying to prepare it for a painted finish, because even Kiwigrip can't cover up ruddy great gouges and holes. Can it?

See Barnacles's post above. Voice of experience. He and I have had exchanges on this subject before and I would rather take note of people who have done it than the musings of those who have not. However, having done it myself would not recommend laying a new teak deck. On the other hand, making good is relatively straightforward using epoxy filling and fairing. If it is really bad, for example if the teak is epoxies down and needs to be removed by mechanical means you can always use epoxy glass cloth. In fact some people have used this create a textured surface which is then painted.

 

[NormanS]

My present boat doesn't have a teak deck. I wouldn't have bought it if it had. Treadmaster is wonderful stuff.
However, my boat does have some small areas of teak decking, - a couple of cockpit seats / lockers, and a helmsman seat. By the end of last season they were definitely looking past their best. I decided to remove the decking from one, and replace it with one of the artificial type. This was about 1.5m x 0.4m, so not a big area. It turned out that not only was it screwed down, but it was also securely bedded down with epoxy resin, onto the deck moulding. The only way that it could be removed, was by chipping away at the teak with a hammer and wood chisel. Once all the wood was off, and all the screws removed, I cleaned up the surface with a disc sander, and glued down the artificial teak.
Having done that, for the other two areas, I merely sanded them right back, removed all the screws which were showing, and glued dowels into the holes, knowing that the screws were serving no useful purpose.
If the decking had merely been screwed down and bedded on silicon, I would probably have stripped it all off, and fitted arificial teak, but having found that it was bedded down with epoxy, I was so glad that I was only committed to replacing the one piece

 

[BrianH]

If the decking had merely been screwed down and bedded on silicon, I would probably have stripped it all off, and fitted arificial teak, but having found that it was bedded down with epoxy, I was so glad that I was only committed to replacing the one piece

I have used Tek Dek for cockpit locker lids on another boat and was very impressed with it, others couldn't believe it was not real teak. But, no way will I consider it for my present deck replacement - with adhesives it was almost as expensive as the real thing. Too much work involved also, I have already spent too much of my sailing lifetime on hands and knees on my damned teak deck.

I know that my cellular sandwich GRP deck under the present teak is structurally sound and strong enough. From replacing two planks with some small areas of rot from water lying under the wood, I have seen how easily they come up and how smooth and perfect is the top fibreglass surface under the silicon skin that just peels away, so I am sure a good finish can be obtained after filling all the screw holes. And having seen a Kiwi Grip painted deck I am sure that is the way I will go.

I shall also look forward to enjoy a cabin that by late afternoon in summer doesn't remain in the upper thirties Celsius as my present side-decks have caused by radiating heat down into the cabin and where I can walk on them in bare feet instead of having to remember to put on deck shoes before doing so.

 

[Concerto]

My present boat doesn't have a teak deck. I wouldn't have bought it if it had. Treadmaster is wonderful stuff.

Treadmaster can be great, but if not fully bonded down water can remain within the bonding area and can cause osmosis on the fibreglass deck. How do I know? Just removed some worn out, chipped and lifting Teadmaster in my cockpit. Have to say the Fein did the job quickly using a wide chisel tool.

 

[NormanS]

Treadmaster can be great, but if not fully bonded down water can remain within the bonding area and can cause osmosis on the fibreglass deck. How do I know? Just removed some worn out, chipped and lifting Teadmaster in my cockpit. Have to say the Fein did the job quickly using a wide chisel tool.

Yes, no doubt, but that is hardly the fault of the Treadmaster.

 

[Tranona]

Yes, no doubt, but that is hardly the fault of the Treadmaster.

However, when it does wear out, or degrade from UV as it does I sunnier climes it is as much work remove as glued down teak. Have done it on a couple of panels like your locker tops and it put me right off. Only consolation is that you don't have the holes. Laying new Treadmaster is also a skilled job and very expensive now.

 

[BrianH]

However, my boat does have some small areas of teak decking, - a couple of cockpit seats / lockers, and a helmsman seat. By the end of last season they were definitely looking past their best. I decided to remove the decking from one, and replace it with one of the artificial type. This was about 1.5m x 0.4m, so not a big area. It turned out that not only was it screwed down, but it was also securely bedded down with epoxy resin, onto the deck moulding. The only way that it could be removed, was by chipping away at the teak with a hammer and wood chisel.

There came a point when some yacht constructors began to fit thin teak cladding that could be glued down, not only on decks but any compound curved surfaces - not only cheap, light and fast but that could emulate the more exclusive yachts that used skilled labour for weeks to lay expensive, thick, teak planks that needed screwing down. Then came a time when even those exclusive yachts could dispense with the pesky screws and glue down their - only slightly - thinner planks with modern adhesives.

So the ease of removing the old teak depends a lot on if the deck was glued or screwed ... and onto what. A plywood base can have rot and I have heard of many once the teak was removed. A sandwich GRP one depends on the core material, balsa can be equally problematical. The least likely to have problems is solid fibreglass - as in the Nauticat range, although heavy - and closed cell sandwich where any water ingress at, say, the screw-holes, does not internally spread. HR used the last system.

 

[NormanS]

However, when it does wear out, or degrade from UV as it does I sunnier climes it is as much work remove as glued down teak. Have done it on a couple of panels like your locker tops and it put me right off. Only consolation is that you don't have the holes. Laying new Treadmaster is also a skilled job and very expensive now.

Ah! Those sunnier climes! I knew there had to be some reason why I sail in this benighted climate.

You are perfectly correct in what you say. I had to remove a tiny area of Treadmaster to accommodate a new fitting, and it wasn't easy.

 

[JumbleDuck]

See Barnacles's post above. Voice of experience. He and I have had exchanges on this subject before and I would rather take note of people who have done it than the musings of those who have not.

Me too. How many teak decks have you replaced?

 

[EuanMcKenzie]

Interesting minor drift but my Rasmus is sail number 126 from 1972. It is a swedish boat rather than a NAB and the plate say Harry Halberg rather than Halberg Rassy. It has a GRP deck and at its age is the better for it.

Try and find one of those, a NAB 35 or a nice Monsun if you are looking at older HRs and want to avoid teak decks

 

[Tranona]

Me too. How many teak decks have you replaced?

Only laid one - and never again. Seen plenty done in various stages of stripping and replacing though.

As Barnacle says there are several different ways of applying teak to decks and the difficulty of stripping and replacing varies according to the original method of laying and the construction of the substrate. Other than saying it is usually a PITA whatever the method, it is a mistake to make sweeping generalisations. The degree of difficulty does vary with the screwed onto sealant (not modern adhesive) onto a non cored deck the easiest. Screwed onto a cored deck, plywood or steel potentially the worst because of the possibility of water damage. Glued on is not difficult if you are geared up for it with the right tools and are prepared for the making good of the surface of the substrate.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Only laid one - and never again. Seen plenty done in various stages of stripping and replacing though.

As Barnacle says there are several different ways of applying teak to decks and the difficulty of stripping and replacing varies according to the original method of laying and the construction of the substrate. Other than saying it is usually a PITA whatever the method, it is a mistake to make sweeping generalisations.

I am glad to see that we agree.

 

[Tranona]

I am glad to see that we agree.

But not about your sweeping generalisations in posts #94 & 97 which is what prompted my further explanations.
A knackered teak deck (just like a knackered engine or sails or even dreaded osmosis) is not an automatic reason to walk. You assess the boat on its merits and what you need to do to get it to where you want it. Of course if you are not a handy person and want to sail rather than fix boats then you would not be looking at a boat that needs work in the first place.

 

[JumbleDuck]

But not about your sweeping generalisations in posts #94 & 97 which is what prompted my further explanations.
A knackered teak deck (just like a knackered engine or sails or even dreaded osmosis) is not an automatic reason to walk. You assess the boat on its merits and what you need to do to get it to where you want it. Of course if you are not a handy person and want to sail rather than fix boats then you would not be looking at a boat that needs work in the first place.

That seems to agree very closely with what I wrote (#97): "Of course it's possible and is regularly done, but if you don't have either a lot of spare time or a lot fo spare money, I think it's an excellent reason to look elsewhere."

 

[fireball]

But not about your sweeping generalisations in posts #94 & 97 which is what prompted my further explanations.
A knackered teak deck (just like a knackered engine or sails or even dreaded osmosis) is not an automatic reason to walk. You assess the boat on its merits and what you need to do to get it to where you want it. Of course if you are not a handy person and want to sail rather than fix boats then you would not be looking at a boat that needs work in the first place.

It's safer to assume that replacing a teak-deck will be a PITA

 

[Monique]

Never laid a teak deck. But I've seen a mate removing and GRP/Epoxy as a replacement.

NEVER for me... in fact it was a big factor in our decision to buy an Amel. It has no teak.