Boat not been lifted for 9 years- advice sought regarding purchase

[doug748]

It isent Negativy its reality.

I agree with NomanS but I don't think he was aiming his remark at your measured post.

Some of the remarks on these "shall I buy this old bargain" type threads are potty. It is never long before some gifted clairvoyant tells us all the boat's faults, without seeing it, and telling us it is not worth the cost of a tram ticket.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Yes, but it's not a very nice boat. Maybe it could be, but it will take more money to sort than it will ever be worth and more time than you will ever spend sailing it.

Based on what evidence?

There is an odd assumption, which always amazes me, that anyone who buys a second hand boat will instantly want to do a huge refit, even if the previous owner has been sailing it quite happily. You see it here regularly - "All the electronics will need replaced", people say, as if a working but ten year old echosounder will resent the change of ownership and start to deliberately mislead.

When I bought my boat she had twenty four year old B&G instruments, which worked fine. Now she has twenty nine year old B&G instruments, which still work fine. The GPS - now fifteen years old - is going this year (in the sense of "being transferred to my other boat") but only because I've decided to add AIS.

Some of us buy second hand boats expecting to sail second hand boats, not as projects to be returned to as-new condition.

 

[Tranona]

Based on what evidence?

There is an odd assumption, which always amazes me, that anyone who buys a second hand boat will instantly want to do a huge refit, even if the previous owner has been sailing it quite happily. You see it here regularly - "All the electronics will need replaced", people say, as if a working but ten year old echosounder will resent the change of ownership and start to deliberately mislead.

When I bought my boat she had twenty four year old B&G instruments, which worked fine. Now she has twenty nine year old B&G instruments, which still work fine. The GPS - now fifteen years old - is going this year (in the sense of "being transferred to my other boat") but only because I've decided to add AIS.

Some of us buy second hand boats expecting to sail second hand boats, not as projects to be returned to as-new condition.

Exactly. Somebody who wanted a modern up to date trouble free HR would spend the money and buy one. If you want an old boat then you take it as it comes and assess whether it meets your expectations. As you say, not everybody wants to bring an old boat up to new standard, and those that do have found it a mugs game.

If you want an old motorsailer and have the kind of money this one might be bought for then it has a lot going for it. It has been in use, has a modern engine, design has a good pedigree and you would struggle to find an alternative. Of course in has negatives, particularly the teak deck, but such things are usually obvious and you can always as some have done rip it all off. If you have the skills and enjoy fettling, this boat is a much better proposition than a lot of others of the age on the market.

 

[Lakesailor]

The OP has the choice.
He spends his money on an old, very overpriced, boat at the other side of the country which may, or may not need a lot of work doing.
If an advertiser volunteers that "the electronics need replacing", I would be surprised if they don't. After all it's not much of a sales USP, is it?

He asked for advice regarding purchase. We would be failing in our duty if we didn't point out the possible pitfalls.
Armed with that knowledge if he views the boat and decides to buy it then he will have made an informed decision.

If people only say "It'll be fine" his decision will be flawed by reason of not having any evidence to suggest it may not be fine.

 

[EuanMcKenzie]

It may be sound but look scruffy mine was I have used it every seaso. And gradually tidied it each winterIt will have a gel deck under the team so may be less of an issue

 

[Niffler]

Based on what evidence?

There is an odd assumption, which always amazes me, that anyone who buys a second hand boat will instantly want to do a huge refit, even if the previous owner has been sailing it quite happily. You see it here regularly - "All the electronics will need replaced", people say, as if a working but ten year old echosounder will resent the change of ownership and start to deliberately mislead.

When I bought my boat she had twenty four year old B&G instruments, which worked fine. Now she has twenty nine year old B&G instruments, which still work fine. The GPS - now fifteen years old - is going this year (in the sense of "being transferred to my other boat") but only because I've decided to add AIS.

Some of us buy second hand boats expecting to sail second hand boats, not as projects to be returned to as-new condition.

There's truth there, but a nicely sorted Rasmus from that era gets advertised as we've seen for £28,000 - sale price about £25,000? To get the one this chap is looking at to that spec will costs a skilled bloke hundreds of hours and maybe £7,000 or an unskilled one about £15,000 in bills but if that teak deck is gone.......gee wiz what's that gonna cost? It's fair isn't it to point that out to the OP? If he thinks a price of £15,000 is a bargain he's very much mistaken.

 

[Daydream believer]

Based on what evidence?

Well try this - which is fact
I bought a near wreck of a boat for £ 2200-00 ( it had a brand new Lombardini in it which was worth more than the boat, that is part why I bought it ) I spent £14000-00 on it & it looked like new when launched. The surveyor said what a professional job it looked
Well it should have , I refurbished it in my joinery shop over a 2.5 year period
I sold it 3 years later for £ 9000-00 having had it fully painted inside & out again just before sale

Where is the economics in that

 

[dylanwinter]

Well try this - which is fact
I bought a near wreck of a boat for £ 2200-00 ( it had a brand new Lombardini in it which was worth more than the boat, that is part why I bought it ) I spent £14000-00 on it & it looked like new when launched. The surveyor said what a professional job it looked
Well it should have , I refurbished it in my joinery shop over a 2.5 year period
I sold it 3 years later for £ 9000-00 having had it fully painted inside & out again just before sale

Where is the economics in that

economics and sailing..... uncomfortable bed fellows in my experience

of course you had the fun of 2.5 years messing in the shed (it was fun wasn't it? if not fun then then don't do the shed bit

then three years of megafun sailing it

money well spent I would say

I am sure that the new owner is enjoying the fruits of your hard work and money

good job that man

I myself am looking for a Centaur needing an engine swap.....

I have a plan involving three men, three days and £300

 

[Skylark]

economics and sailing..... uncomfortable bed fellows in my experience

I once bought an older, long keel sloop from Sweden. The previous owner had spent a few years, a fair amount of money and a lot of hard work to refurbish it. I simply had fun sailing it and sold it after thee years for a nice £6,500 profit.

 

[JumbleDuck]

There's truth there, but a nicely sorted Rasmus from that era gets advertised as we've seen for £28,000 - sale price about £25,000? To get the one this chap is looking at to that spec will costs a skilled bloke hundreds of hours ...

Perhaps you could share with us the photographs and surveyor's report? I presume you have them to hand, since you can confidently predict how much time and money are needed.

Anyway, perhaps the OP doesn't want a "nicely sorted" boat. Maybe, like most of us, he just wants to go sailing.

 

[Lakesailor]

So. Don't buy a boat that hasn't been out of the water for 9 years and has a sketchy maintenance record. Buy a loved boat that is in regular service.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Don't buy a boat that hasn't been out of the water for 9 years and has a sketchy maintenance record.

Until you've been to have a look at it. Though if, as in this case, the seller doesn't want to send recent pictures, circumspection is probably advisable.

 

[Niffler]

Until you've been to have a look at it. Though if, as in this case, the seller doesn't want to send recent pictures, circumspection is probably advisable.

You don't say

 

[Jim@sea]

Until you've been to have a look at it. Though if, as in this case, the seller doesn't want to send recent pictures, circumspection is probably advisable.

The snag is that even in this day and age some people have not moved with the times, if my father in law had a boat he would be incapable of sending photos by email as he does not even have a computer, nor a modern camera, the one he has takes a roll of film.

 

[jwilson]

snipped ..... You see it here regularly - "All the electronics will need replaced", people say, as if a working but ten year old echosounder will resent the change of ownership and start to deliberately mislead.

As a broker that is the one that gets me too: the fact that a 20 year old boat has a set of working 20 year old Stowe or B&G dials and no chartplotter doesn't mean that you have to change them all instantly and that the £4,000+ cost of that (including a new 10" Raymarine plotter) ought to come off the price....

 

[Daydream believer]

Well I would certainly want to look at the wiring. You are just suggesting the instruments- which is relatively easy. But what about the charging & starting harnesses, alternator, shore power charger etc, along with batteries. Replacing that on my boat would be a nightmare & at 11 years old ( the boat not me) I am already getting glitches. I doubt that an old boat would be any better whether it be a Bavaria, HR or whatever. Just take a look at the starting harness on a small Volvo Penta & you can see potential problems that could come from rust, damp & never actually being used

 

[Tranona]

Well I would certainly want to look at the wiring. You are just suggesting the instruments- which is relatively easy. But what about the charging & starting harnesses, alternator, shore power charger etc, along with batteries. Replacing that on my boat would be a nightmare & at 11 years old ( the boat not me) I am already getting glitches. I doubt that an old boat would be any better whether it be a Bavaria, HR or whatever. Just take a look at the starting harness on a small Volvo Penta & you can see potential problems that could come from rust, damp & never actually being used

But it does not say it has not been used, just that it has not been hauled but kept in a mud berth.

 

[Daydream believer]

But it does not say it has not been used, just that it has not been hauled but kept in a mud berth.

OK lets call it a deal on " Used infrequently" I think you get my drift

 

[rivonia]

Kept in a mud berth....Not lifted out......Crikey probably nigh on impossible to lift it out!! Ha Ha.

 

[Lakesailor]

The snag is that even in this day and age some people have not moved with the times, if my father in law had a boat he would be incapable of sending photos by email as he does not even have a computer, nor a modern camera, the one he has takes a roll of film.

Then he will very likely have difficulty selling anything. The world has moved on.