Bilge Keels

[Sandgrounder]

My recent perambulations around the second hand market to find a suitable candidate for a boat to keep on the West Coast of Scotland have produced three boats so far: -
Nicholson 38 - Long Keel
HR Rasmus - Long Keel
Westerly 33 - Fin or Bilge

I have sailed plenty of fin keeled and long keel boats so know pretty much what to expect with each. However, I have never sailed a bilge keeler. I can appreciate the benefits of bilge keels on the South and East coasts of England, and elsewhere, with the ability to take the ground. This seems to be much less of a benefit on the West Coast of Scotland where depth of water is seldom an issue.
Are the disadvantages of bilge keels, poorer windward performance, so great that I should avoid the bilge keel boats or are they moderate and not much greater than the less than sparkling windward performance of the two shallow long keel boats?

Any advice welcome, except of course, buy a benjenbav or whatever. The list above is what I am looking at and I don't have another lifetime to spare on the 12 pages of argument recently devoted to telling me I was looking at the wrong thing. No wish to offend anyone but I'm after advice about the relative sailing performances of these not some other boat which I will not be buying!

 

[markhomer]

Slight doubt about your westerly 33 , if its a storm 33 ,no brainer , of these three boats would by my choice , fin keel for west coast too , if an ole clunker westerly , nic 38 without doubt .

Good luck

I respect your wishes not to be cajoled into anything else

 

[Ceirwan]

Are the disadvantages of bilge keels, poorer windward performance, so great that I should avoid the bilge keel boats or are they moderate and not much greater than the less than sparkling windward performance of the two shallow long keel boats?

Yes.
IMO at least.
A fast boat with bilge keels will still be fast, but not as fast as the proper fin version. And a slow boat will still be slow with either, but maybe not AS slow.

If you NEED to take the ground the get a bilge keel, if not then I'd always take the fin.

 

[[3889]]

If you NEED to take the ground the get a bilge keel, if not then I'd always take the fin.

+1

 

[aquaplane]

I realise I'm probably in a minority here but my 2p worth.

Bilge keel boats do go to windward but not quite as well as fin keel boats.

My Centaur with not bad sails goes to windward better than the fin keel Jeanneau with tired sails.

I avoid sailing to windward anyway, but can do it if I want to, I don't usually want to, do you like beating?

The Westerly 33 is a popular boat, (ok, ok, popular in some circles) it must do something right.

 

[Sandgrounder]

I realise I'm probably in a minority here but my 2p worth.

Bilge keel boats do go to windward but not quite as well as fin keel boats.

My Centaur with not bad sails goes to windward better than the fin keel Jeanneau with tired sails.

I avoid sailing to windward anyway, but can do it if I want to, I don't usually want to, do you like beating?

The Westerly 33 is a popular boat, (ok, ok, popular in some circles) it must do something right.

Bob,

In a boat with a deep keel, I love beating to windward; nothing is more exhilarating, on a nice day of course.

 

[Tranona]

None of those will be sparkling performers to windward, and the Westerly twin keel will probably be just as good if not better than the other two. There is a big difference between going comfortably to windward as you might in long keel boat like the Nic and going quickly which you would if you had a modern fin keel boat, which will likely be faster if less comfortable.

All three boats on your short list are comfortable cruising boats with no pretence to performance.

If you fancy Westerly then the later Discus is a "better" boat than the early 33 and would fit your brief (except for the wheel shelter) and budget.

 

[Halo]

All I would add is that it is much more relaxing to push the tide , especially a falling tide, in a bilge. The shallower draft will also allow you to leave earlier and arrive later over tidal bars. I beat a 40 footer from Portpatrick to Bangor in my little W25 much to the disgust of its skipper.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

+1

+1 for bilge keeler if you want to dry out upright, if depth is not an issue, then fin or long keel is better for optimum performance.

 

[Topcat47]

Spoilt for choice IMO. I'd take the Nic but it'd depend on how recent the engine and electronics were. It's the first thing I look at these days.

 

[niccapotamus]

My recent perambulations around the second hand market to find a suitable candidate for a boat to keep on the West Coast of Scotland have produced three boats so far: -
Nicholson 38 - Long Keel
HR Rasmus - Long Keel
Westerly 33 - Fin or Bilge

I have sailed plenty of fin keeled and long keel boats so know pretty much what to expect with each. However, I have never sailed a bilge keeler. I can appreciate the benefits of bilge keels on the South and East coasts of England, and elsewhere, with the ability to take the ground. This seems to be much less of a benefit on the West Coast of Scotland where depth of water is seldom an issue.
Are the disadvantages of bilge keels, poorer windward performance, so great that I should avoid the bilge keel boats or are they moderate and not much greater than the less than sparkling windward performance of the two shallow long keel boats?

Any advice welcome, except of course, buy a benjenbav or whatever. The list above is what I am looking at and I don't have another lifetime to spare on the 12 pages of argument recently devoted to telling me I was looking at the wrong thing. No wish to offend anyone but I'm after advice about the relative sailing performances of these not some other boat which I will not be buying!

where you are talking of sailing - forget the bilges. we sail the south coast and moor on club moorings and have a b/k sadler 32. very happy, but the deep fin tracks better, has about 5 degrees less weather helm, points about 3 degrees higher and makes less leeway. also motion of long keel is steadier.

 

[Andrew E]

They'll slam going to windward, but if you ease off a little the slamming reduces. I think the ability to take the ground is priceless, meaning a mid season scrub is completely free.

 

[Bikesailer]

I sail a sloop rigged W33, goes as well to windward and at far less angle of heel than my previous Rival long keel.

 

[dylanwinter]

I think that even in scotland twin leels opens up whole new areas for sailing

when you have twin keels the consequences of running aground are less drastic so you can poke your nose into places that would make me nervous with a boat that falls over

and there are also drying harbours to visit


it is hard too beat a nice day aground on a sandy beach

http://www.hilbre-arisaig.co.uk/images/morar.jpg


finally - boatyards love us because there is no need for a cradle

 

[Gwylan]

Well that was interesting.

For the last 15 years we've had various bilge keel boats. We've endured the suggestion that they do not point and taken advantage of not being afraid to dry out wherever takes our fancy.

If i was starting again I'm not sure that I would not settle for the joys of the bilge keeler. But then again, I do not know what I might have missed.

Not needing a cradle is a big plus.
Then being able to take the ground rather than bobbing up and down does give you some comfort when the weather goes off.

Not sure about the West of Scotland, have sailed there in bilge keelers and wondered why. But in the Bristol Channel I knew exactly why we had a bilge keeler.

 

[langstonelayabout]

My Centaur with not bad sails goes to windward better than the fin keel Jeanneau with tired sails.

LOL Yah, right. Try sailing the Jeanneau and you'll soon enjoy the difference...;

Bilge keel boats do go to windward but not quite as well as fin keel boats.

I avoid sailing to windward anyway, but can do it if I want to, I don't usually want to, do you like beating?

Beating? One of the more satisfying things you can do in a cruiser. You just can't beat the feeling of getting 'into the groove'

 

[Bow42]

We once had a twin keel boat , and every time we beach her one keel always seen to find an hole to sit in .

 

[Kelpie]

Or go for lifting keel with ballast stud and beaching legs- perhaps the best or worst of all worlds depending on your point of view.
Our boat sails herself upwind, points about as well as similar fin keelers, but draft with the keel up is only 1.2m and you can beach her using telescopic legs. I have only used them when carrying out maintenance, although it is nice to know that they are aboard 'just in case'.

 

[aquaplane]

LOL Yah, right. Try sailing the Jeanneau and you'll soon enjoy the difference...;

Beating? One of the more satisfying things you can do in a cruiser. You just can't beat the feeling of getting 'into the groove'

Yer, I sailed both and enjoyed sailing the Centaur more, possibly because expectations were lower.

I have to admit that the Jeanneau sailed much better today with it's new main.

I like to get in the groove too, sailing any boat as well as it will go is good, but beating is best when being discussed in the bar later.