First boat and novice

[Nudgie]

Hi, as title suggests relatively new to sailing and mainly as a deck hand but now want to branch out and acquire my own boat after I've completed some training/certification.

The sailing I'd like to do is mainly coastal, Im based north wales, possibly extended trips across to Ireland/IOM and Scotland but doubt I'd want to go too far from Irish Sea for now.

Just confused about what type of boat to go for. I like the idea of creature comforts when on-board, doubt I'd be in to racing, probably safe and steady vs having the boat heeled over. So AWB's tick a lot of boxes so far.

My max budget is £50k but that covers my contingency with a 2nd hand boat. Unsure about keel type- would a bilge keel be a "safer" option for mooring and getting close to coast? I see a few 30-32ft boats at ~mid £30k that look ok and then 34-38 seems to really stretch my budget- would i regret not making the extra investment?

Based on the above what sort of boat would you buy? I'd imagine mosty 2-4 people on board occasionally more if big enough, I would also probably try single handed once confidence is high enoug

 

[mrangry]

I would try and get aboard as many boats as possible as only you will know what levels of space and comfort you are looking for. Ideally go on local Facebook sailing pages and look for crewing opportunities. Join a local sailing club and talk to and meet other sailors.

When considering boat size remember bigger isn't always better if going to be sailing single handed as bigger boats can be a handful when maneuvering in close quarters in any wind.

As for keel types, where would you be keeping the boat? Will it be afloat on a mooring or marina pontoon, or drying out at low tide? I personally prefer a fin keel as generally more responsive but no use on a mooring that drys out.

Also when viewing boats consider what costs will be involved in fitting out or upgrading say the electronics etc as this can be expensive.

 

[Tranona]

Welcome to the forum.

It is impossible to be definitive about what sort of boat you should buy. The fact that there are so many different types in use for the type of sailing you are planning shows that individuals make different choices - and there is potentially a huge choice in the size/price range you are considering.

More helpful are general guidelines. As already suggested look at as many boats as you can. There are very few "duds" and if you stick to the popular makes and designs you can't go far wrong. A first boat is rarely the last and many people get 2 or 3 years' experience and then change so a boat that will sell easily is a good choice. In this bracket you should be able to get a boat with decent engine and sails plus evidence of regular maintenance, replacement and upgrading. Post purchase upgrading can be very expensive as new parts (electronics, sails, deck gear etc) is related to today's prices. You won't find many bilge keel ot lifting keel boats in this size range and unless you have a drying mooring or like exploring shallow rivers a fin keel is not a constraint.

God luck - expect to be confused along the way and also see a lot of frogs before you find the princess.

 

[MontyMariner]

How long do you envisige keeping the boat, is it an interim learner boat or one you want to keep long term?

 

[Nudgie]

I would try and get aboard as many boats as possible as only you will know what levels of space and comfort you are looking for. Ideally go on local Facebook sailing pages and look for crewing opportunities. Join a local sailing club and talk to and meet other sailors.

When considering boat size remember bigger isn't always better if going to be sailing single handed as bigger boats can be a handful when maneuvering in close quarters in any wind.

As for keel types, where would you be keeping the boat? Will it be afloat on a mooring or marina pontoon, or drying out at low tide? I personally prefer a fin keel as generally more responsive but no use on a mooring that drys out.

Also when viewing boats consider what costs will be involved in fitting out or upgrading say the electronics etc as this can be expensive.

Thanks for help hopefully can get out with a local friend soon and increase contacts to get on board some others. On the mooring...pontoon would be first choice pending cost and availability, floating/swing mooring second and drying moor 3rd but I've heard that moorings are in short supply hence the interest in bilge for 3rd choice and over wintering with 2nd choice.

 

[Andrew_Trayfoot]

Suggest you spend 10k on a nice 26' Westerly Centor or Griffon.
Play with it for a couple of seasons and then upgrade to something bigger when you have a better idea what you want....

 

[Nudgie]

How long do you envisige keeping the boat, is it an interim learner boat or one you want to keep long term?

Thats actually one of my questions, is the tendency to change after a few years anyway or is it a false economy to compromise...ie buy smaller then trade up? I could see myself quite comfortably doing Wales, Ireland and Scotland for the next 5 years beyond that not sure if I'd want to take time out for a med cruise etc.

 

[Nudgie]

Suggest you spend 10k on a nice 26' Westerly Centor or Griffon.
Play with it for a couple of seasons and then upgrade to something bigger when you have a better idea what you want....

Thanks Andrew, seen a few of those around. I need to look at more 26ft as trying to keep open about it, initially it was 30ft that crossed comfort level

 

[johnalison]

Your budget may be £50,000, but many buyers of 2nd hand boats find they are faced with quite large bills within a year or two, so I would be looking at paying around £30k and keeping a reserve. Within limits, all boats go at much the same speed, give or take an hour or so on a day’s passage, so size becomes a matter of comfort largely. Larger boats are massively more expensive to run, so I would be thinking of 30-32’ to start with. The boat will be less complex, and easier to handle. Few of us buy our first boat as the one to last our lifetime, so any boat that properly serves the purpose will do. Look after it and when you need to move on you will basically get the money back.

 

[Andrew_Trayfoot]

I've had my Griffon since 1997 and never felt a need a bigger boat.

 

[Wansworth]

In my limited experience the boat is only part of e conundrum.My last boat I bought in a yard with attached moorings,handy as somewhere to keep the craft is handy.Bilge keelers like the Westerly 26 are easy to store over winter or take the ground on a public hard to fix any underwater problem or mid season clean off.

 

[Nudgie]

Welcome to the forum.

It is impossible to be definitive about what sort of boat you should buy. The fact that there are so many different types in use for the type of sailing you are planning shows that individuals make different choices - and there is potentially a huge choice in the size/price range you are considering.

More helpful are general guidelines. As already suggested look at as many boats as you can. There are very few "duds" and if you stick to the popular makes and designs you can't go far wrong. A first boat is rarely the last and many people get 2 or 3 years' experience and then change so a boat that will sell easily is a good choice. In this bracket you should be able to get a boat with

Welcome to the forum.

It is impossible to be definitive about what sort of boat you should buy. The fact that there are so many different types in use for the type of sailing you are planning shows that individuals make different choices - and there is potentially a huge choice in the size/price range you are considering.

More helpful are general guidelines. As already suggested look at as many boats as you can. There are very few "duds" and if you stick to the popular makes and designs you can't go far wrong. A first boat is rarely the last and many people get 2 or 3 years' experience and then change so a boat that will sell easily is a good choice. In this bracket you should be able to get a boat with decent engine and sails plus evidence of regular maintenance, replacement and upgrading. Post purchase upgrading can be very expensive as new parts (electronics, sails, deck gear etc) is related to today's prices. You won't find many bilge keel ot lifting keel boats in this size range and unless you have a drying mooring or like exploring shallow rivers a fin keel is not a constraint.

God luck - expect to be confused along the way and also see a lot of frogs before you find the princess.

Thanks for advice, i might sound naieve but what happens with residual boat value? Ie if i pay £30k for a 15-20 year old boat, obviously upkeep and general maintenance excluded, what would be residual value in another 5 years or so? Are they like cars where general run of mill depreciates but classics improve?

Resell is also a concern and the brands to avoid seems to be a nightmare; the nicest boats (comfort) I've seen are Hunters but a lot is said about sailing performance and how does that affect ability to resell- would i have to wait for someone with an identical needs set and experience to move it or are these points over dramatised?

 

[Graham376]

..........The sailing I'd like to do is mainly coastal, Im based north wales, possibly extended trips across to Ireland/IOM and Scotland but doubt I'd want to go too far from Irish Sea for now.............
My max budget is £50k but that covers my contingency with a 2nd hand boat. Unsure about keel type- would a bilge keel be a "safer" option for mooring and getting close to coast? I see a few 30-32ft boats at ~mid £30k that look ok and then 34-38 seems to really stretch my budget- would i regret not making the extra investment?
Based on the above what sort of boat would you buy? I'd imagine mosty 2-4 people on board occasionally more if big enough, I would also probably try single handed once confidence is high enoug

We used to be North Wales based, with 3 boats, 26ft, 32ft and 34ft, all bilge keelers which opened up options for visiting, where fin keelers not ideal. We sailed mostly 2 up and found 4 adults on a 26ft Centaur for several days too crowded. The 32 ft (Berwick) was better but going to 34ft (Moody 346) seemed positively spacious. We're no longer in UK and have fin keeler but, if returning to sail the Irish Sea would most likely buy another twin keeler.

If starting from scratch, I would have a look at older boats such as Moody or Westerly 33s, available in twin or fin keel and quite roomy and within budget. Popular boats which in good condition usually sell quickly.

 

[mrming]

Thanks for advice, i might sound naieve but what happens with residual boat value? Ie if i pay £30k for a 15-20 year old boat, obviously upkeep and general maintenance excluded, what would be residual value in another 5 years or so? Are they like cars where general run of mill depreciates but classics improve?

Resell is also a concern and the brands to avoid seems to be a nightmare; the nicest boats (comfort) I've seen are Hunters but a lot is said about sailing performance and how does that affect ability to resell- would i have to wait for someone with an identical needs set and experience to move it or are these points over dramatised?

The boat market isn’t really like cars. Models that are considered classics and therefore more valuable are rare - they sometimes exist for a few years until the people that remember them age through, but I could count the models on one hand.

It’s best not to think about the money too much. A well maintained example of a popular boat will usually depreciate slower, but the cost to keep it in that condition will usually make it a losing game overall. I try to think of it as the cost of doing a hobby that I love instead.

 

[Tranona]

Thanks for advice, i might sound naieve but what happens with residual boat value? Ie if i pay £30k for a 15-20 year old boat, obviously upkeep and general maintenance excluded, what would be residual value in another 5 years or so? Are they like cars where general run of mill depreciates but classics improve?

Resell is also a concern and the brands to avoid seems to be a nightmare; the nicest boats (comfort) I've seen are Hunters but a lot is said about sailing performance and how does that affect ability to resell- would i have to wait for someone with an identical needs set and experience to move it or are these points over dramatised?

Difficult to predict future values for all sorts of reasons. Relative values are historically high at the moment following Covid and Brexit which together caused used boat prices to rise significantly, particularly in the price/size bracket you are looking at. For example boats like a Bavaria 32 from the early 2000s are selling for about 20% more than 10 years ago and my 2001 Bavaria 37 I sold for just over £40k in 2015 recently changed hands for closer to £50k. While prices have fallen back recently the long term view is that good well maintained boats will hold their value.

This is an example of what you could get for your money. originyachts.co.uk/yachts/1997-bavaria-35-holiday/2634217 I know the boat well and is one owner (sadly deceased) that has been constantly updated. Many boats come on the market because they are at a point where they need serious money to get them up to scratch often because owners are getting older and find the cost of running the boat becomes a strain for the use they get, or health limits their use. However there are boats like this around and for a first time buyer worth looking out for as getting going actually sailing is the way to find out what you really like and don't like. You might be lucky and hit it right first time. Like changing cars or houses (or wives!) the transaction costs can be high so it pays to take your time.

 

[Nudgie]

We used to be North Wales based, with 3 boats, 26ft, 32ft and 34ft, all bilge keelers which opened up options for visiting, where fin keelers not ideal. We sailed mostly 2 up and found 4 adults on a 26ft Centaur for several days too crowded. The 32 ft (Berwick) was better but going to 34ft (Moody 346) seemed positively spacious. We're no longer in UK and have fin keeler but, if returning to sail the Irish Sea would most likely buy another twin keeler.

If starting from scratch, I would have a look at older boats such as Moody or Westerly 33s, available in twin or fin keel and quite roomy and within budget. Popular boats which in good condition usually sell quickly.

Thanks, all boats that I'm considering

 

[Concerto]

To improve your sailing experience, might I suggest before buying a boat, you join a local club and volunteer to crew. Try and sail on a variety of boats to decide what is important to you for when you decide to buy. This may also be a cheaper route to gain the sea miles you need for any of RYA certificates.

Tranona does give some very sound advice and hopefully so do I. When it comes to buying for the first time, try finding the best equipped and best condition boat. It will cost you less in the long run and should also give you more sailing time, rather than fixing/improving the boat.

Having been sailing since 1965, I learnt all of sailing by doing it and have no RYA qualifications, times have changed so much over the decades. However over the decades, I have gained a lot of experience in boat maintnenace and have been renovating over the past 10 years my 32ft Westerly Fulmar. Have a look at the links in my signature to see what a well maintained and extensively sailed boat. There are videos and presentations that will encourage you. This video is of Concerto at the Southampton Boat Show in 2021 when she was 41 years old.

 

[MontyMariner]

Thats actually one of my questions, is the tendency to change after a few years anyway or is it a false economy to compromise...ie buy smaller then trade up? I could see myself quite comfortably doing Wales, Ireland and Scotland for the next 5 years beyond that not sure if I'd want to take time out for a med cruise etc.

It's very difficult to say how long people keep a boat, circumstances can change, people (wives) become disenamored / get seasick, some master the boat they have and want a new challenge.
I've only owned two boats, a 22 footer for 15 years and a 33 footer for 24 years to date. Some change every two or three years.

 

[KompetentKrew]

I thought the Fulmar was a size of boat I could live with for quite a long time if I was only sailing weekends and holidays.

 

[Skylark]

Welcome, @Nudgie

You’ve probably had as many different suggestions as number of replies. Sailing is a broad church and there’s plenty of room on the water for all.

Ultimately, you and your family will intuitively make a decision, it’ll just feel right.

Of all the suggestions, the link by Tranona in #15 looks eminently suitable. I’d put a modern boat built by a volume builder well ahead of a small, defunct British boat from a bygone day.

I had >20 years based in N Wales cruising Ireland, IoM and Scotland. I never once would have wanted to swap a fin keel for a bilge.

As to costs, well, that’s another open book. Depends upon how handy you are and also the definition of “want versus need”

Good luck with your search.