Anybody else not, qualified?

[crewman]

I do not know if my friend had done a comp crew course first, I know their sailing experience was mainly limited to flotilla sailing in Greece with friends who had sailing experience. I took over after 3 uncontrolled gvybes in succession with the mainsheet and boom flying across the cockpit with no waring. She said on her course she never gybed! When I did my DS and Coastal the need to give crew fair warning and to control the main in a gybe was emphasised

 

[rogerthebodger]

That is not strictly true, You are allowed to sail where you like ( assuming it is not a legally restricted area of course) What may restrict your offshore limit is if you charter or your insurance Co make your qualification as part of any agreement. Otherwise the certificate only recommends that the safe distance within your trained ability is that stated on the cert. Nothing to stop you exceeding those limits.

That may be the case in the UK but other countries have different regulations and as a resident I have to comply with the laws of the country.

Visitors are very obtain allowed to do what the country they live in do.

I used to drive in the UK on my South African Driving license as I used to drive in Europe on my UK driving license and I hired a car in Canada using my UK driving license and through Southern Africa and Australia on my SA driving license

 

[ylop]

I do not know if my friend had done a comp crew course first, I know their sailing experience was mainly limited to flotilla sailing in Greece with friends who had sailing experience. I took over after 3 uncontrolled gvybes in succession with the mainsheet and boom flying across the cockpit with no waring. She said on her course she never gybed! When I did my DS and Coastal the need to give crew fair warning and to control the main in a gybe was emphasised

As it was on mine, but also on comp crew. My day skipper was very much about managing the crew rather than basic sailing - I consider safely executing tacks and gybes (and knowing when they will happen) is basic sailing. I think it’s more likely that she has simply forgotten rather than it not being covered. I am sure that despite aims to moderate the quality of training different schools and instructors will be better/worse, but bear in mind that before even starting DS Practical the candidate is supposed to have the knowledge of DS Theory and Comp Crew and 5 days / 100 miles / 4 night hrs experience.

The problem with someone who only charters once a year is they have a lot of time to forget what they learned between use and so it never becomes “muscle memory” - all the more so if they regularly sail with more experienced people who do all the thinking. On flotilla charters I imagine the lead skipper is also picking routes which require simple sailing (or people motor the “hard” sections) so experience never really becomes consolidated.

 

[Sea Change]

A long time ago when I did my first DS, we never got the anchor wet once yet that part was all signed off in my little book. Hmmm.
More recently, I was put through DS power (theory and practical) by work, and it was much more thorough. Perhaps being a commercial provider helped?

 

[capnsensible]

Just look at the amount of rubbish car drivers there are on the road......that doesn't move......according to the usual suspect posters.

 

[boomerangben]

I did my CS practical last year, my first experience of an RYA training school. I must admit to thinking that the standard required of one of the other crew for his DS was somewhat lower than I expected. After all you can charter a large yacht with just a DS ticket. I was also told that with a prep course, I could be competent enough for my YM Offshore next time around. Which left me feeling like it was a case of putting another dollar in, to use the anachronism for a well know diving school.

But the big plus with sailing schools and the RYA of doing things is to allow newbies who have no sailing contacts to safely make a start in a regulated system. It also allows the likes of me who have some experience but no qualifications to get access to the charter market. Then again there is nothing to stop someone who can afford it buying a large yacht and clattering off into the distance having never set foot on any vessel. At least the RYA is there to help those who have sufficient common sense to learn something before they do make such an investment.

What does make me smile though is the lights and shapes subject. When presented with a piece of card with three green lights arranged in a triangle peering through darkness with steaming lights, suggesting it is a minesweeper and to keep well clear, absolutely no guidance is given on a) how to avoid minefields in the first place or b) how one should go about keeping clear of a minesweeper whilst surrounded by mines

 

[Daydream believer]

That may be the case in the UK but other countries have different regulations and as a resident I have to comply with the laws of the country.

Being a bit pedantic--I did add the caveat "assuming it is not a legally restricted area of course". In countries other than the UK then if you are saying that offshore limits may be enforced as illegal limits in to which they may not sail
ie may be a legally restricted area for someone not suitably quailified.
So my comment was not actually wrong was it?

 

[finestgreen]

did my CS practical last year, my first experience of an RYA training school. I must admit to thinking that the standard required of one of the other crew for his DS was somewhat lower than I expected.

Hm, I was under the impression they're not allowed to mix DS and CS students on the same course

 

[Daydream believer]

, suggesting it is a minesweeper and to keep well clear, absolutely no guidance is given on a) how to avoid minefields in the first place or b) how one should go about keeping clear of a minesweeper whilst surrounded by mines

I would have thought that pretty obvious. Follow his track & do not deviate one inch from that track

 

[Graham_Wright]

If there is a safety to others required, it's easy to understand why for form of paper /experience/knowledge id required.



I have a costal skipper ticket that allows me to sail up to 40 nm offshore night or day whereas my previous day skipper only allowed me to ail during the Day and where I sail would not allow me to sail from my home port to the next port along the coast.

Allows?
As I understand it, no "tickets" are required to go anywhere at sea.
(Tbc, I have a full YMO).

 

[rogerthebodger]

Being a bit pedantic--I did add the caveat "assuming it is not a legally restricted area of course". In countries other than the UK then if you are saying that offshore limits may be enforced as illegal limits in to which they may not sail
ie may be a legally restricted area for someone not suitably quailified.
So my comment was not actually wrong was it?

Allows?
As I understand it, no "tickets" are required to go anywhere at sea.
(Tbc, I have a full YMO).

The irony is that the laws normal extend to 12 nm of shore it the territorial waters of the country except when ion the high seas where the laws of the country of registration is the pertaining law which can differ greatly from each other.

To me it's the freedom and use of common sense and you own knowledge and experience that attracts me to sailing.

The issue is that not all who go sailing have common sense and sufficient knowledge to keep themselves out of trouble, then the authorities clamp down an all of us and not just those who get themselves into trouble or just wish to control everyone for their own ego

 

[boomerangben]

I would have thought that pretty obvious. Follow his track & do not deviate one inch from that track

Fine if you are seeing his stern light, but if you seeing nav lights and a steaming light, you are in the bit where mines might not have been cleared……

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Fine if you are seeing his stern light, but if you seeing nav lights and a steaming light, you are in the bit where mines might not have been cleared……

Sailing into a war zone is hardly recommended practice in the first place. Unless your boat is grey, and armed.

 

[johnalison]

Sailing into a war zone is hardly recommended practice in the first place. Unless your boat is grey, and armed.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[boomerangben]

Sailing into a war zone is hardly recommended practice in the first place. Unless your boat is grey, and armed.

Absolutely. So why is it part of the syllabus, or more practically, why does it come up so often in teaching when the marking for a minefield on a chart is not emphasised? But perhaps I am wrong and our illustrious grey funnel line spend time sweeping for old WW2 mines around our coastlines to this day. I don’t know. It just makes me smile to think of the answer to the exam question seems to recommend manoeuvring in mine infested waters when trying to avoid a minesweeper. To me it would make sense to get on the radio and seek advice from the approaching minesweeper before moving.

To be fair to the course I did, I learned a huge amount, did things I’ve never done before, especially handling a boat in the confines of a marina, which private owners are in my experience and perfectly justified not happy to delegate.

 

[14K478]

I will stick my hand up.

I have messed about in boats since I was a little boy, did my first cruise single handed in my own boat at 17, and am now 72, having owned decked boats throughout that time.

I do have a VHF license, but I never use the d… thing. I have passed the “Yachtmaster offshore” shore based course three times, at twenty year intervals, and I have never bothered with the practical exam.

I have disturbed the repose of the Lifeboat once, in 1973, by accident. I had a broken rudder and had signalled another boat asking for a tow. They had that then rare thing, a VHF set, and used it, so within a very few minutes we got not only an ILB but a chopper, neither of which were wanted or needed.

I made a claim once, after the 1987 hurricane. The boat was laid up.

I am a member of the OCC, as no doubt many are, here.

I do think that some of the procedures taught on the courses are sound and I have adopted several of them.

I do think that it is as much the right of a British citizen to own a boat as it is the right of an American citizen to own a gun.

I don’t think I have any other sins to confess where boats are concerned.

Clearly, I am a dinosaur and my species will soon be extinct.

I do keep in mind one very useful thing that I heard:

Most people stop learning after about three years. What they call thirty years’ experience is really three years experience with the third year repeated twenty-seven times.

 

[Gustywinds]

I do think that it is as much the right of a British citizen to own a boat as it is the right of an American citizen to own a gun.

As part of a "well regulated militia", of course.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

As part of a "well regulated militia", of course.

Captain Calamity, set course for parliament at once, we have a lynching to organise.

 

[rogerthebodger]

I will stick my hand up.

I have messed about in boats since I was a little boy, did my first cruise single handed in my own boat at 17, and am now 72, having owned decked boats throughout that time.

I do have a VHF license, but I never use the d… thing. I have passed the “Yachtmaster offshore” shore based course three times, at twenty year intervals, and I have never bothered with the practical exam.

I have disturbed the repose of the Lifeboat once, in 1973, by accident. I had a broken rudder and had signalled another boat asking for a tow. They had that then rare thing, a VHF set, and used it, so within a very few minutes we got not only an ILB but a chopper, neither of which were wanted or needed.

I made a claim once, after the 1987 hurricane. The boat was laid up.

I am a member of the OCC, as no doubt many are, here.

I do think that some of the procedures taught on the courses are sound and I have adopted several of them.

I do think that it is as much the right of a British citizen to own a boat as it is the right of an American citizen to own a gun.

I don’t think I have any other sins to confess where boats are concerned.

Clearly, I am a dinosaur and my species will soon be extinct.

I do keep in mind one very useful thing that I heard:

Most people stop learning after about three years. What they call thirty years’ experience is really three years experience with the third year repeated twenty-seven times.

Having had 4 different engineering related carries in my 77 years I have been constantly learning new things all my life

 

[14K478]

As part of a "well regulated militia", of course.

That’s what it says, afaik, but I don’t presume to tell the cousins what to do. My father’s mother was one and it looks like my elder son will soon be marrying another, so I shall keep my head down.