Anybody else not, qualified?

[capnsensible]

I don’t recall it being a factor, or even discussed at all on my course/exam, maybe I’ll take that as a compliment. I got into cruisers on the back of being a long standing dinghy sailor though. You should also bear in mind that there are sailing schools with far less experienced staff than you and John, a couple of old shellbacks.

Tacking and gybing are straightforward maneuvers taught to competent crew. Reinforced during a Day Skipper course.

I've worked for a number of schools, owned one and seen dozens of others in action. All follow the prescribed syllabuses with qualified instructors. So what, exactly, should I bear in mind?

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Tacking and gybing are straightforward maneuvers taught to competent crew. Reinforced during a Day Skipper course.

I've worked for a number of schools, owned one and seen dozens of others in action. All follow the prescribed syllabuses with qualified instructors. So what, exactly, should I bear in mind?

Other schools may not be as thorough as yours, and not many instructor/examiners will have as many sea, well I’d say hours, but in your case we’d measure it in years. I completely agree these are basic manoeuvres, you’d most definitely expect any person in charge of a sailboat to be able to accomplish without drama. I have not experienced a lack of sailing skill in anyone with a qualification, though I most certainly have in the case of a powerboat. I know someone well who is an example of this, and he’s equally disastrous in a sailboat, though he’s not been examined for that. I don’t know where he did his level 2, nor do I understand how he passed.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

There is a range of competence for syllabus items as well as overall competency being demonstrated. A Day Skipper could be very good at many items, okay at some, a bit rough at others. Overall they meet the grade with weaknesses noted at end of assessment to work on and improve, but still satisfying the course completion requirements.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

There is a range of competence for syllabus items as well as overall competency being demonstrated. A Day Skipper could be very good at many items, okay at some, a bit rough at others. Overall they meet the grade with weaknesses noted at end of assessment to work on and improve, but still satisfying the course completion requirements.

That’s what I’d expect. I was told that 0.2 of a metre wasn’t sufficiently accurate on tidal heights for the purposes of examination, though of course it is in the real world. I understand the point the instructor was making, a discussion on the effects of atmospheric pressure on height, and rate of change ensued The odd glitch in boat handling could well be forgivable in a day skipper surely.

 

[Bouba]

That goes for everything not just sailing or helming a boat

Not necessarily…there are many professions and many activities that require qualifications….and while experience might have been grandfathered in in the early days…not anymore. Example you can’t drive a car without qualifications nor extract teeth with novocaine

 

[capnsensible]

Other schools may not be as thorough as yours, and not many instructor/examiners will have as many sea, well I’d say hours, but in your case we’d measure it in years. I completely agree these are basic manoeuvres, you’d most definitely expect any person in charge of a sailboat to be able to accomplish without drama. I have not experienced a lack of sailing skill in anyone with a qualification, though I most certainly have in the case of a powerboat. I know someone well who is an example of this, and he’s equally disastrous in a sailboat, though he’s not been examined for that. I don’t know where he did his level 2, nor do I understand how he passed.

I'm afraid it's simply not a case of being thorough. The syllabus is prescribed and annual inspections plus a feedback system ensures that the RYA schools meet the standards. Plus, of course, instructor requalifying. None of this is rocket science and its a vast step up from wrinkled old weatherbeaten ordinary seaman dishing out a few tips...

Of course, there are those who learn something and forget it all 5 minutes later. I'm like that with names, Dave.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Not necessarily…there are many professions and many activities that require qualifications….and while experience might have been grandfathered in in the early days…not anymore. Example you can’t drive a car without qualifications nor extract teeth with novocaine

You can drive a car without qualifications, what you are saying is you cannot drive a car on public without a valid driving license. Except my farther never took a test as he got his driving license before driving tests were required

My Brother had a driving license to drive a track laying tank but never passed a test as he learned in the UK Army,

Its only later that tests were needed.

I studied engineering direct from school at 15 and it was not until I was 23 when I was entered as a I Mech E /CEng that I was truly qualified legally allowed to take charge of government projects.

You could also get an I Mech E/CEng by years of proven experience

 

[Daydream believer]

I have a costal skipper ticket that allows me to sail up to 40 nm offshore night or day whereas my previous day skipper only allowed me to ail during the Day and where I sail would not allow me to sail from my home port to the next port along the coast.

That is not strictly true, You are allowed to sail where you like ( assuming it is not a legally restricted area of course) What may restrict your offshore limit is if you charter or your insurance Co make your qualification as part of any agreement. Otherwise the certificate only recommends that the safe distance within your trained ability is that stated on the cert. Nothing to stop you exceeding those limits.

 

[Gustywinds]

You can drive a car without qualifications, what you are saying is you cannot drive a car on public without a valid driving license. Except my farther never took a test as he got his driving license before driving tests were required

My Brother had a driving license to drive a track laying tank but never passed a test as he learned in the UK Army,

Its only later that tests were needed.

I studied engineering direct from school at 15 and it was not until I was 23 when I was entered as a I Mech E /CEng that I was truly qualified legally allowed to take charge of government projects.

You could also get an I Mech E/CEng by years of proven experience

Likewise my mother and my grandmother learned to drive on ambulances in the war and never passed a test. My mother then taught my father!

On the I Mech E /CEng, I qualified academically but there were several in the company who were grandfathered from proven experience as you say but this is much less common these days, the expectation is you will go chartered and you often remain on a "graduate" position until you do.

 

[Daydream believer]

I've got the ICC when it first came out. No test involved back then, just a signature from a suitable person or existing yachtmaster. Been boating all my life, so some things like the OP's just seem commonsense.

I also have a copy of the original ICC from way back in the 70s. Signed by the club commodore. However, it is no longer valid & if one tried to have it updated it would be refused. So basically you no longer have ICC unless you take the current test.

 

[trapper guy]

hmm, interesting topic..
on my first outing in a boat i attracted the attention of the RNLI, as my choice of anchorage location was suspect in their mind.
maybe in the right winds and sea conditions the location may have been better...
however, in conversation with them, they asked if i had a radio on board, which i do.
but i told them that i didnt have the operator licence, though i have the pass certificate that will allow me to sit the exam.
their response was, and also the response of the coastguard after the RNLI escorted me to a safe harbour, was 'dont worry about that, if you need to call us, call us'

which left me wondering why the license is even needed, except for conversation at sea?
because i cant think of any reason why i would want to use a radio unless i felt i needed help.

 

[Bouba]

You can drive a car without qualifications, what you are saying is you cannot drive a car on public without a valid driving license. Except my farther never took a test as he got his driving license before driving tests were required

My Brother had a driving license to drive a track laying tank but never passed a test as he learned in the UK Army,

Its only later that tests were needed.

I studied engineering direct from school at 15 and it was not until I was 23 when I was entered as a I Mech E /CEng that I was truly qualified legally allowed to take charge of government projects.

You could also get an I Mech E/CEng by years of proven experience

I actually did say all that in my post….but the world is changing, apprenticeships are turning into degree courses and things that used to just require a little instruction have become apprenticeships….for example, bus driving and sandwich making (although I suspect that some form of government assistance has led to everything becoming an apprenticeship).

 

[Boathook]

I also have a copy of the original ICC from way back in the 70s. Signed by the club commodore. However, it is no longer valid & if one tried to have it updated it would be refused. So basically you no longer have ICC unless you take the current test.

Renewed mine in 2021 and due in 2026. 'Grandfather rights' is I think the term. It has been renewed on a regular basis, every 5 years and so far not a problem.

Edit. I don't have the original any more. The RYA kept it at one renewal. I should have scanned it .

 

[thinwater]

For an American's point of view, this is at least as funny as an anchor thread. If the irony is not obvious, then it can't be explained.

 

[NormanS]

Just think, you can bring babies into the world without any qualifications at all.

 

[Sea Change]

hmm, interesting topic..
on my first outing in a boat i attracted the attention of the RNLI, as my choice of anchorage location was suspect in their mind.
maybe in the right winds and sea conditions the location may have been better...
however, in conversation with them, they asked if i had a radio on board, which i do.
but i told them that i didnt have the operator licence, though i have the pass certificate that will allow me to sit the exam.
their response was, and also the response of the coastguard after the RNLI escorted me to a safe harbour, was 'dont worry about that, if you need to call us, call us'

which left me wondering why the license is even needed, except for conversation at sea?
because i cant think of any reason why i would want to use a radio unless i felt i needed help.

You're legally allowed to use a VHF without having any qualifications, if it's an emergency.

There are plenty of other reasons to use your radio. You might get shouted at by Dublin VTS for example.

 

[trapper guy]

I actually did say all that in my post….but the world is changing, apprenticeships are turning into degree courses and things that used to just require a little instruction have become apprenticeships….for example, bus driving and sandwich making (although I suspect that some form of government assistance has led to everything becoming an apprenticeship).

i totally get here you are coming from.
alas the days of on the job training have long become a rotting cadaver.

i do question regularly these days the suitability of so called qualified candidates though.

take a conversation i had with a dentist recently.

dentist- do you smoke?
me- why do you ask?
dentist-because you dont have any plaque on your teeth
me- thats because i clean them
dentist-so you do smoke then?
me-yes
dentist-so that is why you have an abcess!
me-so none smokers dont get abcesses?
dentist- yes they do
me- so what cause their abcesses?
dentist- trapped food particles.
me- so smokers dont eat??

i fear that logic and reason are a fast dying skill also

 

[trapper guy]

Just think, you can bring babies into the world without any qualifications at all.

for now...
im sure government are currently wworking on a licensing and fees structure as we speak.

theyve already mastered the art of taxing the air we breath via 'climate change'

 

[trapper guy]

You're legally allowed to use a VHF without having any qualifications, if it's an emergency.

There are plenty of other reasons to use your radio. You might get shouted at by Dublin VTS for example.

why ould anyone want to enter dublin?
greystones is a much nicer location

 

[Sandy]

which left me wondering why the license is even needed, except for conversation at sea?
because i cant think of any reason why i would want to use a radio unless i felt i needed help.

It is to get people into the habit of how to speak on a VHF radio in order that others understand what is going on.

We can all recite examples of, usually fisherfolk, general chatter.

Originally, I was taught on a different net where it custom to start a transmission with, 'Hello X this is Y', the instructor peered over his halfmoon glasses and said that is not how we do it on marine band.

On visiting Portsmouth last week I needed to talk to KHM, in Plymouth we just call 'Longroom' or 'Flag', lots of us need to use the VHF for things other than MAYDAYS.

On the topic of Solent 'radio checks' I did not hear any, where were you all? The wind was a good 25 knots gusting 35 and the sea was slight.