Would you do a yachtmaster practical if you didn't need the crew component?

[Adios]

For anyone with a genuine interest in the establishment and development of safety at sea this web page is a worthy read.

The United Nations through its International Maritime Organisation cascades this responsibility via national government agencies, in our case the Martime and Coastguard Agency, MCA.

Noting that a YM Cert of Comptetence is issued by RYA on behalf of the MCA.

There are regular reviews between these two organisations to ensure that the syllabus is up to date and appropriate to needs.

I’m afraid that RYA does not have the power to create “the exclusive club” that many fear.

(I’m a YMI and welcome open-minded dialogue that may or may not lead to improved safety while deriving more pleasure and a sense of achievement out of our chosen recreational activity. Just concerned about the lack of context expressed by some)

Brief History of IMO

Would you agree that RYA certifications are primarily to encourage safety of recreational boaters and any use that can be made of a commercially endorsed certificate (YM coastal), which only requires 2 days previous skipper experience, is a very low stepping stone at most and if they do it without crew its not going to enable someone utterly incapable of handling people to find a backdoor into a commercial shipping role with responsibility for crew without anyone noticing their problem. This seems to be the main accusation thrown at the idea.

Also would you agree that it is better to bring people into the orbit of RYA assessment rather than not. IE someone put off by the idea of going from solo or with wife or one friend on a modest boat to having 5 crew and having to try to think of things for them to do on a different type of yacht. People are missing the point that someone put off isn't necessarily or even likely to be so incapable of managing a different boat and a few more bodies that he'd fail just because of that element, but the image is just putting them off and as its not compulsory they don't bother doing a YM. Isn't that a bad thing? Couldn't the RYA encourage them with a picture on their website of someone in their own older modest boat sailing along having a chat with the assessor doing their YM exam. The RYA already answer this point by allowing people to undertake assessment in their own boats as small as 23ft and rather than saying "a full compliment of crew" they say effectively crewed, clearly not skipper, 5 crew and examiner on a Leisure 23 though I'd love to see it tried. The difference between someone with a single friend on a boat that can hardly take more than 3 people to someone sailing solo is so insignificant in terms of what test it is of crew handling that I can't see any argument for forbidding it done without that one crew.

 

[Adios]

That being the case, the other point about a solo YM qualification is that single handing offshore is generally frowned upon as risky. Keeping a lookout being the main issue of course. Absolutely nothing unsafe about a passage you can stay awake for, day or night, in my book. But theres surely some conflict between single handing and other parts of the YM course, not just managing a crew or not.

they don't seem overly concerned or discouraging about single handing offshore https://www.rya.org.uk/news/guy-waites-gets-set-for-golden-globe-race

 

[Chiara’s slave]

To be fair, the middle of an ocean, you’re unlikely to hit someone. Single handing in yachtmaster exam territory, you couldn’t contemplate taking a nap for 5 minutes.

 

[Skylark]

@Athomson

To commercially endorse an RYA certificate requires the applicant to, among other things, pass this course. It’s well worth reading as it may help demystify some of your concerns.

https://www.rya.org.uk/training/courses/Professional-Practices-and-Responsibilities-Course-PPRC

The course opens one’s eyes to the wonderful world of MGN 280 (M). This is highly recommended bedtime reading.

Let’s also recall the RYA mantra “education, not legislation”. RYA is fiercely opposed to there being mandatory training/qualifications before Joe Public puts to sea in either his MAB or his AWB.

It sometimes seems to me that the RYA is on a hiding to nothing.

 

[Praxinoscope]

To be fair, the middle of an ocean, you’re unlikely to hit someone. Single handing in yachtmaster exam territory, you couldn’t contemplate taking a nap for 5 minutes.

The potential of an event occurring should not override the requirement to maintain a watch, which is why, despite having admiration for long distance solo sailors, I still have reservations about long distance solo.

 

[Adios]

To be fair, the middle of an ocean, you’re unlikely to hit someone. Single handing in yachtmaster exam territory, you couldn’t contemplate taking a nap for 5 minutes.

currently zig zagging about in a busy shipping/fishing area. I don't see why you can't do the reality of what the sailing you're being assessed on is. There are sensible and not sensible ways to managed getting some rest when single handing. Sleeping while passing in front of dover not good, anchoring at Dungeness to wait for the tide, fine.

 

[Adios]

@Athomson

To commercially endorse an RYA certificate requires the applicant to, among other things, pass this course. It’s well worth reading as it may help demystify some of your concerns.

https://www.rya.org.uk/training/courses/Professional-Practices-and-Responsibilities-Course-PPRC

The course opens one’s eyes to the wonderful world of MGN 280 (M). This is highly recommended bedtime reading.

"importance of correct manning" so that comes into it before any commercial endorsement. Seems like fussing over the recreational part was unnecessary, its different to commercial sailing unsurprisingly.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Candidate to examiner, ‘OK if I sling the hook down here, could do with a kip’.

 

[Skylark]

………Seems like fussing over the recreational part was unnecessary………

Perhaps, had you know the facts earlier it would not have been necessary to make 30+ postings to this thread?

Good luck with your YM assessment. A wise old bird once said to me “generally, candidates get the result they deserve”

 

[lustyd]

I cannot see what possible benefit there would be in gaining a "YM(single-handed)". It might even be seen as proof of inability to cope with other humans well enough to get a proper qualification. Whereas the present YM indicates an ability to interface with a crew and keep them safe - though like a car MOT it only really applies to the day of test.

Or to reverse everything you said, surely currently it shows proof of an inability to sail solo? A solo qualification would indicate an ability to handle all aspects of a passage without help.

 

[Adios]

Candidate to examiner, ‘OK if I sling the hook down here, could do with a kip’.

How long is the offshore assessment? I thought it was just a day still but you need more sea miles to apply. If its multiple days then sure why can't the boat stop? Examiner might want a kip too. Even if not, anchoring for lunch or even just to use the loo in a busy area is part of sailing to be assessed.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Having never sailed any of my cruisers single handed, what do you do about a visit to the heads? Nightmare in the solent, a 15 second break to put the kettle on is as much as I’d dare to not look ahead. In the summer, we probably alter course for other boats about once every 2 miles.

 

[awol]

Having never sailed any of my cruisers single handed, what do you do about a visit to the heads? Nightmare in the solent, a 15 second break to put the kettle on is as much as I’d dare to not look ahead. In the summer, we probably alter course for other boats about once every 2 miles.

Maybe there could be an argument for a YM(Solent) or like the driving licence for automatic only a YM(Autopilot)? Somehow I doubt the MCA would concur.

 

[capnsensible]

YM Troll

 

[Kukri]

Having never sailed any of my cruisers single handed, what do you do about a visit to the heads? Nightmare in the solent, a 15 second break to put the kettle on is as much as I’d dare to not look ahead. In the summer, we probably alter course for other boats about once every 2 miles.

You look around and then you heave-to on the starboard tack. Which is why boats traditionally had the heads on the port side (not that mine has!)…



The solution to boiling the kettle is to have an air pot lashed in the galley; fill it with boiling water before you set off for your 17 hours coastal sail.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Tedious business this solo sailing. That solution is obvious now you say it, I’m sure I’d have thought of it if the need had arisen. It’s a lot easier to turn to a fellow sailor and say, ‘I’m just going below, I may be some time’.

 

[WindyWindyWindy]

The resistance to this has been truly bizarre. But now that we're down to fearing it would be beyond a yachtmaster examiner to sail a few miles alone I guess we're near the bottom of the objections barrel?

I guess I've seen more rubbish boats than you.

 

[GHA]

Having never sailed any of my cruisers single handed, what do you do about a visit to the heads? Nightmare in the solent, a 15 second break to put the kettle on is as much as I’d dare to not look ahead. In the summer, we probably alter course for other boats about once every 2 miles.

Solo can be deeply unpleasant coastal. We might be a bit cash strapped but most do have a pot to pee in ?
Though most of the seas popping down to put the kettle on or have a pee isn't a problem. The solent might be fun for some but in many ways it's really unpleasant......
Offshore is bliss imho when do don't see another ship for a week at a time & ais/radar alarms keep a better watch than most crew..

No way to abide to the letter rule 5,but no-one seems too bothered about that.

But let's face it, it's just plain ridiculous banging on about a solo YM cert. Nothing more than ranting forum noise ?

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I count myself very very lucky to have a wife who sails.

 

[GHA]

I count myself very very lucky to have a wife who sails.

Easy to see how that could help in the solent. ?