Who should be blamed in this collision???

[maxi77]

You don't know that he did think it was a sensible option. You don't know what was said to him by the escort boat. You probably don't know anything that was happening outside of the view of the YouTube video or the other side of the ship. Think outside of "passing ahead" as well - his intended destination (and that of the ship) wasn't where he was heading at the time of collision. I would think more on two converging vessels each turning to starboard - and one didn't.

None of what you say to my mind gives any decent reason for finding himself in the position he very clearly was in. In fact the tankers moderate speed perhaps saved them as they were carried away by the pressure wave at the bow.

Nothing on those tankers happens fast, at the speed he was going even full astern would take some time to have any noticable impact, so I find it difficult to see how the tanker could do anything unexpected.

As I have said I have very great difficulty is seeing any acceptable, in my opinion, justification for getting into that position

 

[dancrane]

Damned right, Maxi77. It's plain enough. Some people aren't happy with that, though.

I'm off for an early supper. French style. Snails, I think... A bien tot.

 

[l'escargot]

None of what you say to my mind gives any decent reason for finding himself in the position he very clearly was in. In fact the tankers moderate speed perhaps saved them as they were carried away by the pressure wave at the bow.

Nothing on those tankers happens fast, at the speed he was going even full astern would take some time to have any noticable impact, so I find it difficult to see how the tanker could do anything unexpected.

As I have said I have very great difficulty is seeing any acceptable, in my opinion, justification for getting into that position

I'm probably not that far from agreeing with you. I think he basically drove down a cul de sac without the foresight to see all the things that could could go wrong. Probably something we all do to a lesser or greater degree and because all those things seldom all go wrong we get away with it - or the consequences are just less spectacular. I think that possibly the actions of the tanker and possibly the escort boat, which were actions he had not considered, put him in a position he hadn't anticipated and from which he couldn't/didn't extricate himself.

 

[l'escargot]

...I'm off for an early supper. French style. Snails, I think... A bien tot.

Hope you have better luck at digesting them....

 

[Twister_Ken]

I've sailed (racing and cruising) in those waters for a very long time so can claim some knowledge. IM(NV)HO the driver and the crew had no appreciation of the way that merchantmen transit that area, no front of mind knowledge of the regs in the area of concern and were not keeping any sensible sort of lookout. Stupidity nearly killed them. I really don't care how they got there, they should never have got anywhere near that position.

 

[Leonidas]

[QUOTE IM(NV)HO the driver and the crew had no appreciation of the way that merchantmen transit that area, no front of mind knowledge of the regs in the area of concern and were not keeping any sensible sort of lookout. Stupidity nearly killed them. I really don't care how they got there, they should never have got anywhere near that position.[/QUOTE]

Which makes one wonder how entrants from overseas manage it. Looking at the class entries Class 0 IRC 4 out of 11 and Class 1IRC 8 out of 24 were from overseas.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Many ship aboard a local navigator. We used to use a local when racing in the CI.

 

[VicS]

Which makes one wonder how entrants from overseas manage it. Looking at the class entries Class 0 IRC 4 out of 11 and Class 1IRC 8 out of 24 were from overseas.

Reading the sailing instructions would be a good start.

B17 COMMERCIAL SHIPPING
B17 .1 southampton harbour Byelaws (changing RRS 60)
(a) Boats shall observe the Associated British Ports (ABP)
Southampton Harbour Byelaws 2003 (see page 12) at all
times and avoid any close quarters situation with large
commercial shipping . Particular note should be made of
Byelaws 10 & 11 and Associated British Ports Southampton
Notice to Mariners No . 3 of 2011 giving details of a moving
prohibited zone, which ranks as an obstruction for the
purposes of RRS 19 and 20 .
(b) Protests for infringements of B17 .1(a) may be brought only
by the race committee who may initiate a protest as the
result of a report from an ABP Pilot or Patrol boat . Note
that ABP may initiate court proceedings against boats that
infringe this byelaw.
B17 .2 use of engine - as permitted by RRS 42 .3(h)
(a) In order to avoid the risk of collision with commercial
shipping that is under way, a boat may use her engine, or
any other means of propulsion, without retiring .
(b) Such use shall be reported to the Protest Committee at the
Regatta Centre, who shall decide what, if any, penalty to
award .
B17 .3 anchoring in deep water
All competitors are advised to take extreme care when anchoring
in deep water since this may hamper commercial shipping​

PRECAUTIONARY AREA (THORN CHANNEL)
(see also diagram on laminated chartlet)
(a) All vessels navigating within the Port of Southampton shall ensure
that a vessel greater than 150m shall be given a ‘clear channel’
between the Hook Buoy and the Prince Consort Buoy, hereinafter
referred to as ‘The Precautionary Area’ .
(b)When navigating within the ‘Precautionary Area’ referred to above,
all vessels over 150m in length are automatically allocated a ’Moving
Prohibited Zone’ (MPZ) . The MPZ is an area extending 1,000 metres
ahead and 100 metres either side of any vessel of over 150 metres in
length overall whilst it is navigating within ‘The Precautionary Area’ .
(c) The master of a small vessel (less than 20 metres in length or a
sailing vessel) shall ensure that the vessel does not enter an MPZ .
(d) For the purpose of indicating the presence of the MPZ, the master
of any vessel of over 150 metres length overall shall display on the
vessel, where it can best be seen, by day: a black cylinder, and by
night: 3 all round red lights in a vertical line .
(e) When operationally possible the Southampton Harbour Patrol
Launch (VHF Call Sign “SP” - watching Channel 12) will precede
these vessels within ‘The Precautionary Area’ showing, in addition to
the normal steaming lights, an all round blue light . The absence of
the patrol launch will not invalidate the MPZ implementation .
When yachts with VHF radio are racing in the vicinity of commercial
vessels under escort of the Southampton Harbour Master’s patrol
launch (call-sign ‘SP’), they are advised to listen in on channel 12
to the intentions of the Pilot regarding the commercial vessel’s
movements .
The hull of the patrol vessel is dark blue in colour with very distinctive
yellow chevrons on the bows . The superstructure is white, displaying
on both sides the words HARBOuR MASTER: the launch wears a red
ensign, the ABP Southampton house flag and often a pilot flag​

Note that the Precautionary Area is shown on the laminated chart issued to competitors.

 

[Leonidas]

Thank you Vics for the as usual comprehensive reply which answers most of my questions.
It would therefore appear that
A; Racing yachts's engine may be used to get out of trouble without being disqualified. i.e another option available to the skipper of the Atalanta once he lost the wind.
B.- Use of VHF service with dedicated channel was available, so communications between Atalanta and the tanker could have been established when alteration of course was intended.

Of course we are speculating here as we do not know all the facts, however clear rules concerning navigation were in place.

 

[Oscarpop]

Jaysus you boys,
You really should have gone sailing this weekend and left the thread alone. I looked on Thursday afternoon and since then another 8 pages have been added.
Well now I'm back, keep up the good work, it will keep me amused until next weekend .
But can you please all promise to go sailing next weekend? It's a bank holiday and time will be best spent on water

 

[VicS]

You really should have gone sailing this weekend

Yeah I know.
Plan A was to keep a doctors appointment on Friday morning and go straight from there to the boat for the whole weekend.
Was planning on going to Cowes too.

Good job I didnt......... when I went off to the doctors i'd locked the back door ... SWMBO was in the garden....... I think she would not have been pleased to be locked out from 1000 on friday until sometime this evening!

 

[l'escargot]

Jaysus you boys,
You really should have gone sailing this weekend and left the thread alone. I looked on Thursday afternoon and since then another 8 pages have been added.
Well now I'm back, keep up the good work, it will keep me amused until next weekend .
But can you please all promise to go sailing next weekend? It's a bank holiday and time will be best spent on water

I got back last weekend after 2 weeks on the boat and am off next weekend for another week - teenage daughter demanded a weekend at home this weekend so boat free.

Trouble is that with iPhones, marina wifi etc., being away sailing doesn't prevent posting....

 

[Topcat47]

I wasn't going to add anything to this after my last post, but I'm just back from a mini trip on my boat and I want to make a public "Thankyou" to both the perpetrator and the guy who posted the clip on U-tube. I sail the Solent most weeks and I have got complacent. I dug out my copy of the bye-laws and reminded myself about the turning area. I've been caught there a couple of times in the last 15 years, (not nearly as badly as the racing yacht and nowhere I couldn't get away from) and been ticked off by the Southampton VTS traffic wombles but never really thought about the consequences. This week I've been checking and double checking my encounters with commercial traffic, both at sea and in the Solent and come to the conclusion that the guys involved have done us all a great service in reminding us that in a contact like this, there's no way the yachtie is going to win. Twice on the way over, I decided to turn and run parallell to a commercial vessel's track, despite knowing from HH bearings that we weren't on a collision course. In both cases they looked bl00dy big as they passed within half a mile of me. I also altered course to stay out of the deep water channel as a cruise ship went past in the Solent; they really do crack on once they leave the VTS and it had gone from Cowes to Bembridge in the half the time it took me to get from Bembridge ledge to No-Mans Land fort.

 

[joha]

QUOTE: I think the inference being made is that to be high up in the RN, the skipper would logically be expected to be able to comply with regulations and not make a risky decision.

Thank you, FishyInverness, that's exactly what I meant.

One might expect someone to cock things up magnificently at some point, but if there's one crew we might hope would never, ever break basic rules and make a jaw-dropping public spectacle of their incompetence, surely that'd be the RN?
Hence, let the skipper's name be known, rather than let his individual daftness stain his whole crew and the noble service behind them.

I have it that the crew member who jumped off was in fact an admiral, and the driver from the engineering branch. I also hear that a prosecution is about to follow.

j

 

[Poignard]

When I was in the RN, very many years ago, admirals always seemed incredibly old to me. I find it hard to imagine them agile enough to leap off boats. Still, nothing like several thousand tons of steel heading towards you to get the adrenalin flowing.

 

[dancrane]

I have it that the crew member who jumped off was in fact an admiral, and the driver from the engineering branch. I also hear that a prosecution is about to follow.

j

That would perhaps account for their silence thus far. With any luck it may even silence the no-blame theorists, too!

 

[LADY B]

Of course we are speculating here as we do not know all the facts.

Quite. So why have there been 275 posts, most of them baying for blood?

 

[marina95]

I have it that the crew member who jumped off was in fact an admiral, and the driver from the engineering branch. I also hear that a prosecution is about to follow.

j

Hollywood allegedly interested in the film rights. Working title "Bugger's Muddle" apparently...

 

[Heckler]

That would perhaps account for their silence thus far. With any luck it may even silence the no-blame theorists, too!

A simple freedom of info request might get more?
Stu

 

[Poignard]

How dare they ignore us?

Can it possibly be that these yachtsmen are not aware that the Yachting and Boating World Forum is calling upon them to give a full account and explanation of their recent activities?

Perhaps the elder brethren of this august forum should immediately despatch a tipstaff to apprehend these malefactors so that they may be arraigned before the full YBW court, and a suitable punishment imposed on them.