Which boat to buy?

[MisterBaxter]

I'm looking for second opinions on buying a boat. My plan is to buy a yacht which will probably live on a mooring in Milford Haven, to use for 4-5 weeks of cruising a year, maybe taking in Lundy, the Scillies, Ireland, West Wales, sometimes with crew and sometimes single-handed. My priorities are:
1. Pure pleasure of sailing. Fast sailing with an easy, satisfying motion; at home out at sea in a wide range of wind and sea conditions; a pleasure to be at the helm.
2. Simple accommodation for four at most but more often 1-3 people.
3. Seaworthy - I have no intention of deliberately going out into bad weather but I want to sail, in the words of Claud Worth, "free from morbid anxiety about the weather".
4. Budget of £15k max once I've got the boat how I want it, which primarily means decent sails for a wide range of wind strengths; wind vane self steering; good ground tackle; electrical set-up to be independent of shore power.
I'm torn between two approaches. On the one hand, a well-made bilge keel yacht of 26-28 feet would seem sensible for the cruising area and would be a sensible investment too - Westerly, Hunter, Sadler. On the other, I can't help thinking about something like a She 31/Delta 94 - a fast, gorgeous classic, but deep draft and can't dry out easily, more work to maintain, harder to sell on and the big masthead genoa would be harder work on my own or with a small, inexperienced crew (which is likely).
What does anyone think? What would you be looking at in my situation?

 

[KevinV]

If you allowed your decision to be ruled only by logic, the logical thing is not to buy a boat. Set some baselines (purchasing budget, running budget, accomodation, condition), then let your heart have the final say - if it doesn't make you smile you've wasted your money.

 

[Concerto]

With your budget you are going to be looking at boats about 40 years old. The best advice is to buy a boat that is in the best condition, even if it costs slightly more than similar ones. To find the right boat is not like buying a secondhand car where there are plenty to choose from of a particular model. You may find up to 10 in your recommended boat, but they are dotted all over the country. So try and buy as local to Milford Haven as this will avoid the expense of delivery. Now start trawling all boats for sale with agents, owners association web sites, local clubs, etc. Choosing a Westerly, Moody, Hunter or Sadler would be wise, but you may find something not by these builders. Look at plenty of boats to get a feel what you like the look of and then you will realise when you find the right boat. The better equipped it is, will save you money in the long run. Avoid a fixer upper as this will cost at least 4 times what you expect and you will not be sailing.

If you click on my avatar and then on my about me button, there are plenty of links to things I have on the internet which you will find of interest. The more you can learn about sailing and boats will make you a better buyer.

 

[PhillM]

Its not the cost of the boat but the cost of the refit.

Most second hand boats for sale at the sort of price you mention have old rigs (or claim the age is unknown) knackered sails, engines in need of a rebuild, out of date electronics, old seacocks, etc, etc. In my view, if you exclude wooden boats and home built hulls, then just about all of the boats produced professionally are sea worthy (although many would argue long-keel, vs fin, vs bilge, etc.). Its all the stuff that wears out that makes them unsafe. So, if you really want to be sure of a boat in this price bracket, you are going to need to go over everything carefully and replace a lot of gear.

My take on this is that its better to buy a cheap boat and spend the money on a refit because at least that way I know how old the gear is and how well it was installed. It also means I get to know my boat very well and can fix most things should they go wrong.

 

[mrming]

If you want classic looks, you could consider a Contessa 26 or a GRP Folkboat. Smaller yachts seem to be excluded from the current hot used boat market, so a good (or even very good) example can be had within your budget. It won’t leave much money for upgrades, but if you get a well maintained and upgraded boat in the first place you should be able to go sailing in year 1 and take your time to work out what you need to spend on.

 

[E39mad]

MG C27

Fast, stable and pleasure to sail.

 

[MisterBaxter]

Thanks all, some food for thought there. Maybe it's just going to be about shopping around to find the right individual boat rather than getting hung on up brands and designs. I'm quite old-school in my tastes and sailing habits, and I want a boat with the rig and ground tackle really well sorted out, but I don't want to pay for a fancy interior with hot running water and widescreen tv, nor do I want lots of electronics - I'm quite happy navigating off paper charts with a basic GPS for back-up.

 

[Praxinoscope]

As Concerto points out with a budget of around £15k you will be looking at boats 30-40 years old, not a major problem there are a lot of them around still in good condition and sailing well.
If sailing from Milford I would choose to go for a bilge keeler as many of the harbours along the West Coast of Wales dry out, you will lose a small degree of windward sailing, but unless you intend to go in for really competitive racing this is not a major problem.
My starting point would be to look at the Sadler 29, it sails well, a good reputation, bilge keel versions are common, reasonable accommodation and is still agile enough to be used for club racing if desired.
We have a small fleet of them in Aberaeron, (5) and they certainly seem to rate highly, unfortunately out of my budget otherwise I would have one.
Additional thought on mrming’s #5 suggestion, the Contessa26 is a lovely boat to sail, but like my previous boat an Invicta 26 (Van de Stadts version) it is a long single keel, superb sailing , great for areas that don’t dry out, but very restrictive if you want to visit many of the West coast harbours and cramped accomodation compared to later designs.

 

[Stemar]

As PhillM says, any boat within your budget will most probably have outdated electronics but, if they still work, does that matter? A set of paper charts (which you should have anyway, regardless of electronics) and Navionics on a tablet with a backup on your phone will be plenty for the kind of sailing you're talking about.

ISTM that there are two ways to go about buying a £15K boat. The first is to look for the best boat you can find for £10K and spend the rest on upgrades. The second is to spend most of your budget and hope that the boat won't need too much urgent work. Thinking you can buy for your max budget and go off sailing almost never works at any budget.

 

[Kelpie]

If you want to dry out but have fun sailing, a Seal 26 might work. Maybe too small though?

 

[Wansworth]

I'm looking for second opinions on buying a boat. My plan is to buy a yacht which will probably live on a mooring in Milford Haven, to use for 4-5 weeks of cruising a year, maybe taking in Lundy, the Scillies, Ireland, West Wales, sometimes with crew and sometimes single-handed. My priorities are:
1. Pure pleasure of sailing. Fast sailing with an easy, satisfying motion; at home out at sea in a wide range of wind and sea conditions; a pleasure to be at the helm.
2. Simple accommodation for four at most but more often 1-3 people.
3. Seaworthy - I have no intention of deliberately going out into bad weather but I want to sail, in the words of Claud Worth, "free from morbid anxiety about the weather".
4. Budget of £15k max once I've got the boat how I want it, which primarily means decent sails for a wide range of wind strengths; wind vane self steering; good ground tackle; electrical set-up to be independent of shore power.
I'm torn between two approaches. On the one hand, a well-made bilge keel yacht of 26-28 feet would seem sensible for the cruising area and would be a sensible investment too - Westerly, Hunter, Sadler. On the other, I can't help thinking about something like a She 31/Delta 94 - a fast, gorgeous classic, but deep draft and can't dry out easily, more work to maintain, harder to sell on and the big masthead genoa would be harder work on my own or with a small, inexperienced crew (which is likely).
What does anyone think? What would you be looking at in my situation?

Varvet lying in Vigo after trip from Finland has everything you could want. 20,000 euros. Finish flag. Cosa de barcos web page

 

[doug748]

I'm looking for second opinions on buying a boat. My plan is to buy a yacht which will probably live on a mooring in Milford Haven, to use for 4-5 weeks of cruising a year, maybe taking in Lundy, the Scillies, Ireland, West Wales, sometimes with crew and sometimes single-handed. My priorities are:
1. Pure pleasure of sailing. Fast sailing with an easy, satisfying motion; at home out at sea in a wide range of wind and sea conditions; a pleasure to be at the helm.
2. Simple accommodation for four at most but more often 1-3 people.
3. Seaworthy - I have no intention of deliberately going out into bad weather but I want to sail, in the words of Claud Worth, "free from morbid anxiety about the weather".
4. Budget of £15k max once I've got the boat how I want it, which primarily means decent sails for a wide range of wind strengths; wind vane self steering; good ground tackle; electrical set-up to be independent of shore power.
I'm torn between two approaches. On the one hand, a well-made bilge keel yacht of 26-28 feet would seem sensible for the cruising area and would be a sensible investment too - Westerly, Hunter, Sadler. On the other, I can't help thinking about something like a She 31/Delta 94 - a fast, gorgeous classic, but deep draft and can't dry out easily, more work to maintain, harder to sell on and the big masthead genoa would be harder work on my own or with a small, inexperienced crew (which is likely).
What does anyone think? What would you be looking at in my situation?

If I have it right, you have no more than 15k to spend and be ready to go? In which case you will want to lay out no more than say 10k on the boat, given your other requirements, good sails etc.

I think I agree with mrming, you may be better looking for a good smaller boat rather than a needy larger one, maybe a Westerly of some sort.

Having said that:

No doubt you have seen this:

1970 SHE 31 Traveller Racer/Cruiser for sale - YachtWorld

There are other slightly unfashionable boats that may come up like the Morgan Giles 30 or Great Dane but it's probably best to chase up all reasonably local leads till the right thing turns up rather than setting your heart on a particular type.
I would not worry about huge headsails, with the coming of roller reefing these are impractical and the vast majority were dispensed with years ago. Ordinary big headsails may not be entirely convenient to tack but they come into their own off the wind.

.

 

[mrming]

If you want to dry out but have fun sailing, a Seal 26 might work. Maybe too small though?

This is a great suggestion. They are actually pretty roomy inside providing you can cope with the low down seating in the saloon. The completely lifting plate is ideal for shallow draft and drying out upright. Sailing performance and seaworthiness is fantastic (I raced one which had done the AZAB and also amassed a large club racing trophy collection), and they look reasonably pretty to boot.

 

[MisterBaxter]

If I have it right, you have no more than 15k to spend and be ready to go? In which case you will want to lay out no more than say 10k on the boat, given your other requirements, good sails etc.

I could spend more, but I don't want too much money tied up in a boat - simple and inexpensive means less stress and responsibility.
The Seal 26 is a good thought. Something like that would do the job very nicely. I had thought about a Hunter Delta too, which is a similar boat in some ways.

 

[Wansworth]

Vane steering gears areabout3,000euros and other attendant equipment could set you back 5,000 euros.Many yachts might have a new engine or reconditioned one that will jack the price up in relation to others of the same class.

 

[Wansworth]

I am also looking for a similar craft but the availability is more limited in Galicia..Depending on your age and skill set access to the engine and fuel tank has been paramount and I have discarded several boats unless you aim to have a professional mechanic keep the boat ready.I found on my last 27 footer engine access was a real hardship bending and twisting to gain access at ancillary bits

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Twister if you can up your budget a bit.

 

[Praxinoscope]

If you want to dry out but have fun sailing, a Seal 26 might work. Maybe too small though?

Not a great fan of lifting keel boats, ( but it may have been my experience with a Foxterrier 22 that put me off them,) but having said that the Super Seal is worth looking at it’s a good design, sails well and has reasonable accommodation, (dare I say that it is a ‘grown-up Anderson 22).

 

[Kelpie]

Vane steering gears areabout3,000euros and other attendant equipment could set you back 5,000 euros.Many yachts might have a new engine or reconditioned one that will jack the price up in relation to others of the same class.

I sold my Navik for £750, and you can build a Hebridean vane for similar money.

 

[Wansworth]

I sold my Navik for £750, and you can build a Hebridean vane for similar money.

Yes but some people don’t have the skill I was thinking about a new Windpilot and installation,may of bumped up the price a bit