Wansworth
Well-known member
You could well be right ?
Which boat to buy?
- Thread starter MisterBaxter
- Start date
Praxinoscope
Well-known member
My current boat is now just over 40 years old, (it was 36 years old when I bought it) engine was replaced 22 years ago with a Beta 14 and has still only logged 990 hours, sails were 3 years old as was the standing rigging.
I have made a few mods since I bought her, some new carpentry in the cabin ( to modify it more to what I want), a new Houdini hatch, the old one was sort of OK but had a strange locking system which I felt was not brilliant, renewed running rigging ( I wanted differentt colour flecks on each , bought as reel ends)replaced 3 old plastic skin fittings with Trudesign skin fittings and replaced the two genoa winches with Lewmar 16’s found on the ybw for sale thread, and that’s about it, total amount spent on these items? Just over £1k.
Just don’t jump at the first boat you see, there are plenty of good 40 year old boats that have been looked after and well naintained, and will not need major expense,
I have made a few mods since I bought her, some new carpentry in the cabin ( to modify it more to what I want), a new Houdini hatch, the old one was sort of OK but had a strange locking system which I felt was not brilliant, renewed running rigging ( I wanted differentt colour flecks on each , bought as reel ends)replaced 3 old plastic skin fittings with Trudesign skin fittings and replaced the two genoa winches with Lewmar 16’s found on the ybw for sale thread, and that’s about it, total amount spent on these items? Just over £1k.
Just don’t jump at the first boat you see, there are plenty of good 40 year old boats that have been looked after and well naintained, and will not need major expense,
Obi
Active member
It has been nearly a decade since I sold this one, and there are certainly items missing. Subsequent owners replaced electronics for nav, bimini covers, sail covers, possibly sails.
I thought I had costs included in this xls, but sadly not. Nevertheless it should give you a good idea of the kind of things you might face.
It covers nearly an eight year period on a 1979 hull launched in 80. It might have to cover a couple of posts.
I thought I had costs included in this xls, but sadly not. Nevertheless it should give you a good idea of the kind of things you might face.
It covers nearly an eight year period on a 1979 hull launched in 80. It might have to cover a couple of posts.
1 | Gearbox rebuild | Aug-02 |
2 | New clutch | Aug-02 |
3 | Engine rebuild, new pistons, rings, bores, gaskets. | Sep-02 |
4 | Reface valves | Sep-02 |
5 | Fuel injection overhaul | Sep-02 |
6 | Service on starter motor | Sep-02 |
7 | Head reconditioned - refaced | Sep-02 |
8 | New lift pump | Sep-02 |
9 | Heat exchangers & Coolers replaced | Sep-02 |
10 | Engine hoses replaced | Sep-02 |
11 | Osmosis treatment, re-epoxy & new anti-foul | Nov-02 |
12 | Rudder exam and reapir. | Jan-04 |
13 | Hull strengthening for increased rig | Jun-04 |
14 | New Iroko toe rail capping | Nov-04 |
15 | New halyards - part2 | Dec-04 |
16 | Old teak deck removed, sealed and & painted | Aug-05 |
17 | New sea cocks | Nov-05 |
18 | New nav lights | Aug-06 |
19 | Mast & Rigging checked | Aug-06 |
20 | Stern gland & cutlass bearing replaced | Sep-06 |
21 | Prop shaft replaced | Sep-06 |
22 | Propeller replaced | Sep-06 |
23 | New cockpit sole teak locker doors fitted | Sep-06 |
24 | New hatches - part 1 | Sep-06 |
25 | New furling wire stay | Oct-06 |
26 | babystay backing plate replaced | Oct-06 |
27 | Mizzen chain plates replaced | Oct-06 |
28 | Rigging replaced | Oct-06 |
29 | Mast heads replaced | Oct-06 |
30 | Check & refit vang gooseneck | Oct-06 |
31 | New mizzen mast rigging backingplates | Oct-06 |
32 | Electric supply renewed (charger/wiring/fuse panel) | Apr-07 |
33 | New batteries | Apr-07 |
34 | New battery charger | Apr-07 |
35 | New battery box | Apr-07 |
36 | Anti-foul | Aug-07 |
37 | New sacrificial anode | Aug-07 |
38 | New speed log | Aug-07 |
39 | New hinges on cockpit lockers | Aug-07 |
40 | New SS pipe for internal mast (mizzen) electrics | Aug-07 |
41 | New halyards | Aug-07 |
42 | Mast electrics all checked | Aug-07 |
43 | Cooker replaced | >2002 |
44 | Fridge replaced | >2002 |
45 | Fluxgate compasss stripped down, cleaned, tested all at Raymarine | |
46 | Course computer tested, compass, drive, clutch all operating as expected - tested at Raymarine | |
47 | Manual Bilge pump fiited | Jul-09 |
48 | Life raft service (HYS - Universal) | Jul-09 |
49 | Re varnish of most interior wood | Jul-09 |
50 | Metal-polish of galley sinks | Jul-09 |
| | |
Obi
Active member
Part 2 of 3 :
51 | New galley taps | Jul-09 |
52 | New aft head taps | Jul-09 |
53 | Re-Anti-Foul | Aug-09 |
54 | Rudder Checked | Aug-09 |
55 | Keel checked | Aug-09 |
56 | 2x new self tailing winches Harken 56-2s | Aug-09 |
57 | New holding tank | Aug-09 |
58 | 50% re-plumbing of entire vessel | Aug-09 |
59 | New calorifier | Aug-09 |
60 | New shower mixer unit - aft | Aug-09 |
61 | New shower sumps & pumps | Aug-09 |
62 | Solar panel fitted 12v | Aug-09 |
63 | Wind gen fitted 12v and bracket for mizzen fitted | Aug-09 |
64 | 12v battery and isolation switch installed | Aug-09 |
65 | 12v Battery charge controller installed (solar) | Aug-09 |
66 | 12v battery voltmeter fitted | Aug-09 |
67 | New tek-dek decking fitted to all deck and cockpit areas | Aug-09 |
68 | Upholstery replaced - saloon | Aug-09 |
69 | Windows replaced - all, new screws, sealant. | Aug-09 |
70 | Prop earthing connected | Aug-09 |
71 | Gearbox - Engine earth connected | Aug-09 |
72 | New aircraft bulbs in mast lights x2 | Aug-09 |
73 | New bulb fitted in steaming light | Aug-09 |
74 | New davits and bracket for solar panel fitted | Aug-09 |
75 | New plates for davits (internal/ext) | Aug-09 |
76 | Recover all head/cabin linings (saloon) | Aug-09 |
77 | New Mizzen halyard | Aug-09 |
78 | New Mizzen sheet | Aug-09 |
79 | New offshore flarepack | Aug-09 |
80 | New handhled VHF | Aug-09 |
81 | Hull paint "cut" with cutting paste | Aug-09 |
82 | Hull paint polished with 3m polish | Aug-09 |
83 | Capping rail sealed with 50/50 blakes x2 | Aug-09 |
84 | Capping rail varnished 1 coat | Aug-09 |
85 | Remote windlass switch fitted (c/pit) | Aug-09 |
86 | Fuel cleansing and tank treatment | Sep-09 |
87 | Water tank treatment | Sep-09 |
88 | Diesel tank scrubbed clean | Sep-09 |
89 | Cutter rig checked by rigger for decommission and temp moved to granny rail | Sep-09 |
90 | Fore hatch resealed (sycaflex) | Sep-09 |
91 | New battery and holder fitted/soldered into GPS Garmin | Sep-09 |
92 | New ensign and flagstaff | Sep-09 |
93 | S/S wire jack stays fitted | Sep-09 |
94 | New lazy jacks fitted to main mast/boom | Sep-09 |
95 | New toilet seat and seals - forepeak | Sep-09 |
96 | Check Water tank breather - port side | Sep-09 |
97 | Clear diesel tank breather hose and tube checked and cleared | Sep-09 |
98 | Check diaphram in diesel lift pump | Sep-09 |
99 | Raw water impeller checked | Sep-09 |
100 | 2 litres of oil into engine | Sep-09 |
Obi
Active member
Part 3 of 4
100 | 2 litres of oil into engine | Sep-09 |
101 | Main mast checked for hair line fractures - all clear | Sep-09 |
102 | Main mast lights all checked | Sep-09 |
103 | Sea cocks removed and serviced | Sep-09 |
104 | Engine tested after diesel infection - all ok | Sep-09 |
105 | Re-wiring to seperate bi & tri color from one breaker switch | Sep-09 |
106 | New batteries in to Hecta depth sounder | Sep-09 |
107 | Replaced log display in cockpit | Sep-09 |
108 | UV Strip completely re-stiched & other repairs. (Headsail) | Sep-09 |
109 | Stern gland greased | 19/09/2009 |
110 | Steering cables greased and checked | 19/09/2009 |
111 | Rudder stock greased | 17/09/2009 |
112 | Depth callibration checked | Sep-09 |
113 | Greased furler at top of fore stay | Sep-09 |
114 | Greased furler at bottom of fore stay | Sep-09 |
115 | Steering quadrant dismantled, greased and tightened | Sep-09 |
116 | AutoPilot union to quadrant check, greased and tightened. | Sep-09 |
117 | Emergency tiller operation checked | Sep-09 |
118 | DSC Radio installed with gps integration | Sep-09 |
119 | Servi ce toilet seals and pumps | Sep-09 |
120 | New fuel filters fitted (Racor and CAV296) | Sep-09 |
121 | Replacement log transducer fitted | Sep-09 |
122 | New grease nipple on stern gland to prevent leakage | Oct-09 |
123 | Re-position main sheet onto new boom attachment | Oct-09 |
124 | New wheels onto furling blocks for furling line | Oct-09 |
125 | Repaired, valetted and re-waterproof of sprayhood. | Oct-09 |
126 | Main sail patched on sail tie, Valetted and whitened. | Oct-09 |
127 | Boom vang refitted to boom with stainless bolt | Nov-09 |
128 | New wooden sliders for cockpit washboard | Nov-09 |
129 | Lazerette internals partially re-painted | Nov-09 |
130 | Deck switch for windlass modified to accomodate new tek-dek | Nov-09 |
131 | Fore peak leak (anchor switch) fixed with sealant and screws | Nov-09 |
132 | New marine speakers and car stereo/dvd/mp3/bluetooth/batt monitor (12v),sat nav(lat/long), fitted. | Nov-09 |
133 | 350w Invertor fitted | Nov-09 |
134 | Outboard engine - points re-set | Jan-10 |
135 | Outboard engine - new shearing pin fitted. | Jan-10 |
136 | Outboard engine - greased prop bearings and clamps | Jan-10 |
137 | Outboard engine - water cooling checked. | Jan-10 |
138 | Replacement Jabsco waste sump water pump fitted | Feb-10 |
139 | Leaking waste water connection from aft (sink & shower) made good into sump pump | Feb-10 |
Obi
Active member
Part 4 of 4
140 | Campanion way storage repainted | Feb-10 |
141 | Aft heads sink taps re-located to prevent water splashing over vanity unit | Feb-10 |
142 | Galley top 1 re-grouted | Feb-10 |
143 | AutoHelm Course computer checked at Raymarine | Mar-10 |
144 | AutoHelm control unit checked and connection cable re-wired at Raymarine | Mar-10 |
145 | New binnacle connector fitted to autohelm remote unit. | Mar-10 |
146 | New pump Guard water filter fitted | Feb-10 |
147 | Re-stiched port lights, pocket seams and windows into spray hood | Apr-10 |
148 | New LVM 12v twin battery regulator and dump resistor for Aerogen3 installed | Apr-10 |
149 | Autohelm tested under sail and engine - 5 hours all ok. | Apr-10 |
150 | New feet on spray hood to replace old ones. | Apr-10 |
151 | S/S splash backs around stove in galley fitted | Apr-10 |
152 | Tank tender for diesel pressure leaks solved. Diesel tank guage now working | Apr-10 |
153 | Re-calibrated flux gate compass | Apr-10 |
154 | Bimini re-attached and tested (needs a patch on the aft end) | Apr-10 |
155 | Port side saloon floor sanded & varnished | Apr-10 |
156 | Campanion way side linings sanded and varnished | Apr-10 |
157 | Cockpit table sanded and varnished x3 | Apr-10 |
158 | Capping rail sanded and sealed with TWO coats 50/50 blakes classic varnish/thinners | Apr-10 |
159 | New B&G replacement boat speed purchased and installed (previous replacement did not match the set) | May-10 |
160 | New transducer wheel installed on log transducer. | May-10 |
161 | Capping rail abraded and varnished with 1 coat of Blakes classic varnish | May-10 |
162 | Capping rail abraded and varnished with 2nd coat of Blakes classic varnish | May-10 |
163 | Capping rail abraded and varnished with 3rd coat of Blakes classic varnish | May-10 |
164 | Coaming "cut" with 3M Finesse cutting powder | May-10 |
165 | Cockpit rope/anchor locker "base" fixing screws resealed andwooden suport resealed to resolve leak into companion way storage. | May-10 |
166 | On going autopilot testing successful | May-10 |
167 | Another coat of blakes on companion way bulk head, saloon wood, saloon table | May-10 |
168 | Top sides cut with 3M Finesse to restore and refresh paint finish | May-10 |
Tranona
Well-known member
Sorry for delay in responding - somehow missed this. I see Obi has provided a detailed list of his major refit, but sadly no costs! I find it easier to group typical items and give a range of costs. The 3 items you mention are the "biggies". 30hp engine £7500 for well specced new plus £2k professional fitting, plus typically £1-1.5k new/replacement ancillaries Exhaust, plumbing, seal, prop etc. full rigging replacement including turnbuckles for simple masthead rig materials £1600, rigger fitting £400. Sails based on 50 sqm main and genoa basic Dacron £3-3500. Rewire including batteries £1500-2000 DIY (forget it professionally!). Reupholster typical 5/6 berth using existing foam £2-3000 professional. Other common items are taking lines back to cockpit £1-1500 for hardware, electric windlass £1500 including wiring. electronics are probably the biggest money eaters. a full integrated set including autopilot but not radar £6-8k.
What you say is exactly right - people run boats almost into the ground until the prospect if all that work and cost in the next few years outweighs the joy they get out of the boat - but the difference in asking prices between that sort of boat and one that has been regularly updated and still has life left in all the major bits can be small - as little as a few £000 on, say a +/- £20k boat. hence the advice that if you prefer sailing to fixing then pay the extra and follow the policy of regular updating. No 30-40 year old boat is ever going to be perfect.
Of course I broke this rule big time with my project, but that was because I wanted a very specific boat and I wanted the refit project. unfortunately there are very few if any really usable ones around - in the year or so I was looking only 2 came on the market (at twice the price of the one I bought) and I missed one because of Covid and on the other the survey revealed problems I would rather not have, even when fixed. However I have a 5 year plan of which the first year was a blitz on the major jobs to get top the point where I can have the following years relatively trouble and cost free sailing. So far going roughly right but I do have more to do this winter than I expected - and I have spent nearly £50% more than I planned, partly because i replaced more and partly because parts costs have gone up and I have used more professional labour than I expected.
Hope this helps
TwoFish
Active member
Very much so. Thank you for taking the time to summarise that. It's very helpful indeed and (as you say) confirms my own concerns. It's great to put some 'ball park' numbers on those concerns though.
Obi. Thank you too. That long list gives me a great idea of the 'and the rest' that may need to be added on to the bill on top of the 'biggies' that Tranona has covered.
Last edited:
Obi
Active member
Morning, yes, very sorry about the lack of costs, I really thought I had detailed them in that file. That said, the costs on a 40' are a bit of a step up from the size you are talking about, so perhaps they would have been more "alarming" than helpful to you. Particularly costs for the like of: engine, rigging, qty of materials would not be a fair comparison.
A lot of what I did was "upgrade" rather than required, so if you don't want hot water or showers, fresh upholstery, and so on
. I am sure it all makes sense.My aim was to take an old but solid yacht and get everything working, fresh, with all "mod-cons" for long cruises without need for regular trips to shore-power outlets. So, your 4-5 week trips might benefit from some of the "upgrades", but with simple accommodation you can possibly skip many a job I undertook.
What I was hoping was of use to you, was things like liferaft service, seacocks, stern gland, rudder checks and so on - lots of ideas in that list that might help you when you get started.
Don't be discouraged, you have years to go through your to-do list. My advice is get the right boat, get started and prioritise your safety, practicalities and comfort - in that sort of order. Few things are insurmountable with the will and the money.
Last edited:
Obi
Active member
Had friends who I met up with in L'Orient in a Westerly. They left Gosport for Exeter. Rested, and then waited for the best window to go for it and I think they headed to Brest first, was it 5 days sailing? Maybe 3 days. I cannot remember exactly the kind of Westerly they had, but some might be able to pin it down.
Also, whilst "off watch" one night helping a friend take a Hunter "thirty something foot" down to Nice, around Ouessant, I came back on deck several hours later to find out we had been going backwards. It does happen.
MisterBaxter
Well-known member
Reading this thread has definitely focussed my mind on simplicity and ease of maintenance! My ideal boat might now be a Hunter Delta with twin keels and an outboard, if such a thing exists... But failing that I'm leaning towards twin keels, 26-28 ft - the smaller end of the range I'd considered so that everything is cheaper and simpler, and twin keels for the obvious cruising advantages but also for cheap, simple yard storage and hull maintenance.
