Autopilot trying to kill me?

[Wandering Star]

Funny that. My Raymarine AV100 went wrong - veering 30-40 degrees when I was below deck & under power- just near the Kessok bridge in 2014. I did not notice course change. I ran aground & inspite of it being flat calm & only on the bank for an hour I lost my rudder on a rock or small boulder. A dolphin swam round & round taking the p..ss. I was towed back to Inverness marina by the inshore RNLI, who happened to be under the bridge on a training run. So they used me as a real life training exercise.

Are you sure it was only taking the piss and not taking photo’s to post on the internet?

 

[Daydream believer]

My hanse 311 will not hold a course if one is not on the helm for more than 2 seconds. It is highly sensitive to the rudder movements & I just cannot leave the helm unless under AP or Aries. So when running on a broad reach with a quartering sea, one will never adjust the sail to make the boat balanced as it has a big main & ST jib.
If I am helming, it is easy to hold the boat on course & I have never broached, unless due to loss of concentration. It has a very large rudder. But autopilots do not anticipate.
The AV100 allows the boat to start broaching & then it is gone. The dangerous thing is that if I am below & do not notice, or cannot get on deck in time the tiller ram goes hard over then the AP cuts out past 70 degrees off course, without centralising. As the boat comes off the wave the boat goes back on course, but then carries on past the course into a massive gybe on the opposite tack.
In F6 or more this can be very dangerous. If not with a dismasting with mainsheet whipping across the cockpit. At least my older TP2000 version continues working & centralises the tiller. I use that as a backup sometimes.
My solution to risking the gybe is to set the Aries. It steers me all over the ocean but always gets me back on course & so far I have not hade the dreaded crash gybes that the dangerous Raymarine causes

 

[Daydream believer]

Are you sure it was only taking the piss and not taking photo’s to post on the internet?

Well you know dolphins. They have been photo'd so many times that they have probably decided that it is time to have ago themselves. They sit on the sea bed laughing at the pictures of efforts of daft old codgers in boats. After all there are probably thousand of mobile phones chucked overboard every year, so they must have sussed how to use them by now.

 

[RupertW]

I've had two similar issues. The first was when the screws holding the bracket on the tiller tore out! The second was finger trouble - I entered the wrong waypoint on the chart plotter and suddenly discovered I was heading for the shore!

I'd agree with those who suggest that the conditions were far beyond anything an autopilot could be expected to handle. I almost always steer manually under sail, for several reasons:

1. I do a better job of reacting to wind shifts, gusts and waves than the autopilot.
2. I have limited battery capacity, and the autopilot uses a lot of power.
3. I enjoy sailing the boat! I only use the autopilot under sail to allow me to take short breaks.
4. I mainly use autopilot when under engine, because it's boring to steer under engine!

I don’t agree that the conditions were too hard for the autohelm. I have used my autohelm without problems in Atlantic waves and 40-50 knot winds many times without a problem, but only with good sail trim for the wind angle and gustiness.

I would be very worried on longer trips if I couldn’t use the autohelm 24 hours a day in anything a ocean is likely to throw at me, but I would have to accept that certain angles and speed will be beyond me if I’m compromising on speed for ease of helming.

 

[Birdseye]

Perhaps not a lot of help unless you decide to change pilot, but I had a Robertson / Simrad below deck hydraulic pilot on my Starlight 35 and that pilot would steer the boat goose winged downwind in more than 30kn without a waver. I know - not paying attention we did just this until the bow wave on one surge was higher than the guard rails and panic stepped in. Some credit has to go the Stephen Jones for the boat / rudder design but the pilot was bulletproof

 

[jbweston]

I did change it from leisure mode to cruiser mode now, so the autopilot will keep a more strict course. The autopilot is ACU 200 btw. There was no joystick options.

Broach was exactly what happened twice in a row. I started sailing full time 6-7 months ago and it was my first broach. Scary s... In 32 knots wind

It varies from boat to boat, but I found with my last one that she behaved best downwind without the main. In light airs under just the cruising chute, and in a better breeze under just the genoa. With that setup the autopilot could handle things fine in any conditions.

The boat often didn't settle well goosewinged. Sailing downwind under just the main seemed to exacerbate rolling and I always found it more of a faff than using just the genoa or chute.

I'm speaking as someone sailing alone who valued easy progress and low workload rather than speed. I guess with a crew I'd have set them to work steering and sail trimming with dire warnings about what I'd do to them if they gybed or broached.

Once we were far enough away from dead downwind for the main and genoa to set on the same side then it was a different matter. Then the autopilot worked fine provided we weren't overpressed and the sails were properly trimmed.

I spend a lot of time under autopilot. I like sailing but helming I'm happy to leave to the autopilot or crew on the occasions when I have one.

 

[Refueler]

My hanse 311 will not hold a course if one is not on the helm for more than 2 seconds. It is highly sensitive to the rudder movements & I just cannot leave the helm unless under AP or Aries. So when running on a broad reach with a quartering sea, one will never adjust the sail to make the boat balanced as it has a big main & ST jib.
If I am helming, it is easy to hold the boat on course & I have never broached, unless due to loss of concentration. It has a very large rudder. But autopilots do not anticipate.
The AV100 allows the boat to start broaching & then it is gone. The dangerous thing is that if I am below & do not notice, or cannot get on deck in time the tiller ram goes hard over then the AP cuts out past 70 degrees off course, without centralising. As the boat comes off the wave the boat goes back on course, but then carries on past the course into a massive gybe on the opposite tack.
In F6 or more this can be very dangerous. If not with a dismasting with mainsheet whipping across the cockpit. At least my older TP2000 version continues working & centralises the tiller. I use that as a backup sometimes.
My solution to risking the gybe is to set the Aries. It steers me all over the ocean but always gets me back on course & so far I have not hade the dreaded crash gybes that the dangerous Raymarine causes

You need to sail my Conq 38 ..... you can 'balance' sails to course / wind and let go tiller .............

Can't do it every time ... but nice to know she can do it ....

But sheet her in hard to race - you need be on the tiller !

I like using tiller pilot ... lets me observe - adjust sheets ... sort things ..... but only for cruising.

 

[Daydream believer]

I am not impressed. You are sailing sort of up wind as can be seen from the flags. My old Stella would do that with full main as well as the genoa . Many long keeled boats would. But show me a picture of your boat in F 5 in a 2 metre quartering sea with the wind on the aft quarter steering itself. If you have not got some wild set up of bits of heath robinson backed sails & lengths of bujgee etc I very much doubt that you can sail it without some form of assisted steering. Beit AP or manual helm.
People talk about balancing sails & much of it is b..x. Courses involve more than upwind. They involve reaching & running as well. Down wind one can hoist twin headsails. But for general coastal cruising - that is a faff for many boats. OK for longer offshore passages.

 

[MontyMariner]

I furled in the Genoa and it behaved better

I haven't read all the previous posts but IMO
You are furling the wrong sail!
Ditch the Main and the force will be on the bow of the boat, not midship on the main, then there will be less strain on the autopilot.

 

[sailboatliving]

I haven't read all the previous posts but IMO
You are furling the wrong sail!
Ditch the Main and the force will be on the bow of the boat, not midship on the main, then there will be less strain on the autopilot.

I have in-mast main sail, so I would have to turn up wind in 32 knots of wind to reef or pull in the mainsail, so that is out of the question. Easier to just sail close to downwind and roll up the Genoa then

 

[Daydream believer]

I have in-mast main sail, so I would have to turn up wind in 32 knots of wind to reef or pull in the mainsail, so that is out of the question. Easier to just sail close to downwind and roll up the Genoa then

Sounds like someone should have dealt with that mainsail operation a LOT earlier

 

[mrming]

A side point, but I’ve find that in these kind of conditions my Raymarine system steers better to the wind than to a compass heading. F6-7, downwind, big-ish following sea. When set to a compass bearing, it can yaw around a fair bit, but when set to steer to the wind its movements seem far more “damped”. Obviously you may need to adjust to account for shifts. I too lose the main when it starts to get spicy, particularly at night.

 

[sailboatliving]

A side point, but I’ve find that in these kind of conditions my Raymarine system steers better to the wind than to a compass heading. F6-7, downwind, big-ish following sea. When set to a compass bearing, it can yaw around a fair bit, but when set to steer to the wind its movements seem far more “damped”. Obviously you may need to adjust to account for shifts. I too lose the main when it starts to get spicy, particularly at night.

Okay, I will try the steering to the wind function next time. Thanks for the advice!

 

[dunedin]

How I love my Aries when the going gets tough. Steers me all over the place in light airs but just gets better as the wind gets up & the Raymarine death trap begins to fail

You need to fix the Raymarine then.
If boats can fly on foils at 30+ knots through the southern ocean using autopilot day and night, should be able to cope with a wee Hanse on the East coast

 

[Roberto]

If boats can fly on foils at 30+ knots through the southern ocean using autopilot day and night, should be able to cope with a wee Hanse on the East coast

He should sell the Hanse to buy one of those pilots

 

[dunedin]

He should sell the Hanse to buy one of those pilots

That is true for the Vendee autopilots. But equally I have done at least 12,000 miles using basic Raymarine autopilots, upwind and downwind. And plenty of boats with large mains and small jibs sail fast downwind on similar basic autopilots. So DD perhaps needs to rethink his a/p use.

 

[Roberto]

using basic Raymarine autopilots, upwind and downwind. And plenty of boats with large mains and small jibs sail fast downwind on similar basic autopilots.

Yes, FWIW I found a significant difference with quartering seas comes with the gyro sensor, my control unit was without and after installing one the boat really behaved better, one needs to increase the reaction parameter -however it s called- the pilot works a lot more but when there are waves arriving to the stern side and beginning to lift the hull the pilot really anticipates and reacts very well, it keeps a very satisfactory course.

 

[Daydream believer]

That is true for the Vendee autopilots. But equally I have done at least 12,000 miles using basic Raymarine autopilots, upwind and downwind. And plenty of boats with large mains and small jibs sail fast downwind on similar basic autopilots. So DD perhaps needs to rethink his a/p use.

I am on my second ram & my second control unit with the AV 100. Raymarine are aware of the issue & know it cuts out. When asked what they intend to do & I get zero response as they do not consider it a problem. I have had 3, TP2000.s that have all failed at some point. ( changed on warranty)
Last year we motored from Bradwell to Ostend at average 6.5kts over the journey,(88 miles 13.5hours) in seas that reached 2.5m near the Longsand Head & past the West Hinder. The AP struggled to keep the boat on course. For a while my son decided to helm as the AP was clearly working at its limit & we were veering all over the place.
Yes, I could get an AP to work if I wanted to spent 15K+ for the basic unit from a Figaro 3. I would rather rely on my Aries

 

[Refueler]

My AH2000 - the older one with separate Compass rose controller - coped remarkably with the 4m waves / swell and tail end of storm from Gotland to Ventspils ... unlike the bow nav light that was ripped off ... the solid walls of water coming over deck and drenching yours truly !!

The only failure of the Autohelm - was the pin worked loose in the tiller with the amount of force and kicks it took ... had to lash the ram to tiller in the end ... no way was I going to helm in that for 14hrs solid ...

 

[noelex]

On an ocean-going yacht, autopilots should be more than capable of steering in adverse conditions. The drive units can (or should be able ) exert more steering force than a human helmsman. The computer cannot anticipate the wave conditions as well, but the better units are close and certainly better than a tired and distracted helmsman.

The Raymarine linear drives are typically reliable on small or medium-sized yachts (I have used these units). The problems may lie in other components such as the power supply, computer, rudder sensor, or fluxgate compass.

These separate, but important parts make diagnosing issues with autopilots harder than most yacht systems. The best you can do is note the exact type of fault together with any error messages, and hopefully, forum members can point you in the right direction.