What should I have done at the critical point?

[Romeo]

Main half up in nice condition is probably the key. Get it all up, if you struggle to tack, roll the jib in ( assuming it's on a furler) and tack with just the main, then unfurl again on the other tack.
Or, simplest way, my shitty little 18footer with crap sails often refused to tack, so just fire up the outboard, go full throttle and force the bigger round. That will get you out of trouble.

If you cannot tack because you do not have the power to get through the wind, gybe. Otherwise known as wearing ship. OK, you will not get round as quickly as a neat tack, but you will carry out your manoeuvre in less sea room than it would take to start an outboard, and with more certainty. Sounds to me like lots of practice is required.

 

[tatali0n]

I still wonder, at that time when I was careering towards the mud, and from reading the posts I think I must have been beam reach. Instead of struggling to turn 90 deg into the wind in vain, if I had just turned 90 deg away from the wind I would have immediately turned and avoided the mud? (assuming I hadn't inadvertently hove to)

1Shug, it occurs to me if you're wondering what actual point of sail you were on at the time, and whether or not you should've tacked or gybed, you could really benefit from some basic sailing instruction. Have you thought about doing a dinghy course? It may not be suitable to your age or level of fitness (EDIT: just wanted to add that I don't know what your age or level of fitness is, I'm not implying either is potentially an issue ) but might be cheaper and quicker than trying to get the same level of experience and tuition in a bigger boat, anything you learn about the wind and sails in a dinghy is immediately transferable to your bigger boat and crashing about in a little dinghy can be great fun.

A very typical newbie mistake is to try to tack directly from a reach, rather than hardening up to close-hauled first and then tacking. If you tack from a reach without pulling in the sails as you turn up into the wind (this is called hardening up), you are essentially trying to put the boat through a much bigger no-go zone (potentially up to 90 degrees before you go through the wind) where the sails aren't actually working or providing drive. You can get away with it in light conditions, but in a bit more of a blow your boat loses so much way it stops moving forward, and so stops turning and falls off the wind again again, failing to tack.

On the other hand, if you harden up close to the wind first with all the sails tight in, when you tack, the velocity of the boat only has to push through about 15 degrees of no-go zone without drive from the sails before you're through the wind, so it doesn't have time to stop.

So the top tip would be to only tack when you're close hauled, up on the wind with both sails already tight in and driving the boat.

Yes, it was fantastic , and yes, we were lulled into a false sense of security by the apparently benign conditions.

Welcome to the obsession It always amazes me, even now, how quickly conditions can change. Pay close attention to the forecasts, and in the early days at least whilst you are still working out your limits (which will be significantly less than the boat's, typically) always be cautious and expect and prepare for the worst.

Oh, and if you've got Navionics running on a tablet in your boat, do also buy the appropriate charts and learn how to read them. But DO absolutely keep the electronics running on board as well. Knowing unequivocally where you are, exactly where you're going and how far you are from everything else is utterly priceless.

It doesn't replace good planning, good seamanship or sound navigation, but GPS is brilliant, and what you can get with an app like Navionics running on tablet or mobile for a relatively cheap price and at relatively little power drain rivals many aspects of some of the really expensive, custom made kit you can otherwise buy.

 

[JimC]

Struggling to see why you couldn't de-power the sails. Do your jib sheets let the jib fly forwards? Are your sheets long enough?

Is it normal practice to have jib sheets this long? I know mine aren't.

 

[Vega1447]

Is it normal practice to have jib sheets this long? I know mine aren't.

Agree. It would be a PITA to have jib sheets long enough to let the jib "fly like a flag". If it was really necessary, just undo the stopper knot.

But a lot easier (and much much kinder to the sail) to just furl it.

 

[bitbaltic]

1Shug, it occurs to me if you're wondering what actual point of sail you were on at the time, and whether or not you should've tacked or gybed, you could really benefit from some basic sailing instruction. Have you thought about doing a dinghy course? It may not be suitable to your age or level of fitness (EDIT: just wanted to add that I don't know what your age or level of fitness is, I'm not implying either is potentially an issue ) but might be cheaper and quicker than trying to get the same level of experience and tuition in a bigger boat, anything you learn about the wind and sails in a dinghy is immediately transferable to your bigger boat and crashing about in a little dinghy can be great fun.

A very typical newbie mistake is to try to tack directly from a reach, rather than hardening up to close-hauled first and then tacking. If you tack from a reach without pulling in the sails as you turn up into the wind (this is called hardening up), you are essentially trying to put the boat through a much bigger no-go zone (potentially up to 90 degrees before you go through the wind) where the sails aren't actually working or providing drive. You can get away with it in light conditions, but in a bit more of a blow your boat loses so much way it stops moving forward, and so stops turning and falls off the wind again again, failing to tack.

On the other hand, if you harden up close to the wind first with all the sails tight in, when you tack, the velocity of the boat only has to push through about 15 degrees of no-go zone without drive from the sails before you're through the wind, so it doesn't have time to stop.

So the top tip would be to only tack when you're close hauled, up on the wind with both sails already tight in and driving the boat.



Welcome to the obsession It always amazes me, even now, how quickly conditions can change. Pay close attention to the forecasts, and in the early days at least whilst you are still working out your limits (which will be significantly less than the boat's, typically) always be cautious and expect and prepare for the worst.

Oh, and if you've got Navionics running on a tablet in your boat, do also buy the appropriate charts and learn how to read them. But DO absolutely keep the electronics running on board as well. Knowing unequivocally where you are, exactly where you're going and how far you are from everything else is utterly priceless.

It doesn't replace good planning, good seamanship or sound navigation, but GPS is brilliant, and what you can get with an app like Navionics running on tablet or mobile for a relatively cheap price and at relatively little power drain rivals many aspects of some of the really expensive, custom made kit you can otherwise buy.

Another good reason for hardening up first is just to pull the boom in so it's movement through the tack is less violent, especially for a beginner. So it has two advantages at once.

 

[Tomahawk]

1Shug,
I have been sailing for some 30 years. I don't like to think what I have learned.. or how I learned much of it. Indeed t would fill a decent book or three. But ... and this is the big but..

I am still learning.

Indeed every time I cast off, I take with me all my experience yet come back with more than I had before. There is never "just a potter down the river". And that's what makes sailing the best sport in the world. It gives you the opportunity to encompass, technology, science theory science application, meteorology, law, physical fitness, aerodynamics, hydrodynamics, balance.... and good company.

Welcome to the obsession

 

[dolabriform]

1Shug,
I have been sailing for some 30 years. I don't like to think what I have learned.. or how I learned much of it. Indeed t would fill a decent book or three. But ... and this is the big but..

I am still learning.

Indeed every time I cast off, I take with me all my experience yet come back with more than I had before. There is never "just a potter down the river". And that's what makes sailing the best sport in the world. It gives you the opportunity to encompass, technology, science theory science application, meteorology, law, physical fitness, aerodynamics, hydrodynamics, balance.... and good company.

Welcome to the obsession

:encouragement:

 

[ShinyShoe]

Agree. It would be a PITA to have jib sheets long enough to let the jib "fly like a flag". If it was really necessary, just undo the stopper knot.

But a lot easier (and much much kinder to the sail) to just furl it.

The snag with letting the sheets go completely is you can't 30 seconds later decide you want to restore power your sheets are now in-front of the boat...

Oh Furling it would make a ton of sense... ...I don't know what he's sailing, so no idea if he has a Furler...

 

[johnalison]

Letting the sheets go is a thoroughly bad idea. Not only will it shorten the life of the sail, but in doing so you lose all the drive from the sail and replace it with drag when the wind is from ahead, and additional force causing the boat to heel, making it harder all round to manage the situation. When the wind is too strong and there isn't time to reef, it is much better to pull in sheets really hard, flatten the rig and pinch when sailing to windward. Running away from the wind is even better, of course, but the Crouch wasn't designed for this.

 

[Vega1447]

The snag with letting the sheets go completely is you can't 30 seconds later decide you want to restore power your sheets are now in-front of the boat...

Oh Furling it would make a ton of sense... ...I don't know what he's sailing, so no idea if he has a Furler...

My first boat was a little 20 foot Splinter bilge keeler with hank on jib.

I often needed to drop the larger jib in a hurry. Eventually I rigged up a downhaul led back to the cockpit.

No fancy clutches or such just main and jib halyard at the mast .

Small yachts are great, a few turning blocks and a few metres of line is all you need to tweak.

 

[Vega1447]

Letting the sheets go is a thoroughly bad idea. Not only will it shorten the life of the sail, but in doing so you lose all the drive from the sail and replace it with drag when the wind is from ahead, and additional force causing the boat to heel, making it harder all round to manage the situation. When the wind is too strong and there isn't time to reef, it is much better to pull in sheets really hard, flatten the rig and pinch when sailing to windward. Running away from the wind is even better, of course, but the Crouch wasn't designed for this.

What he said..

 

[Ravi]

Thinking about the question in the title about what you should have done "at the critical point"........

i.e. when you realised that you couldn't tack or motor away from the shoals.

You should have thrown your anchor overboard. Ideally a new generation anchor.

That would have averted the danger.

 

[Alan ashore]

1Shug - just a thought. I'm wondering if you were capturing your track in the Navionics app on your tablet? If so then perhaps you could share a screen shot showing the few minutes before you grounded. That might help the community to understand a little better exactly how the situation developed.

 

[1Shug]

Thinking about the question in the title about what you should have done "at the critical point"........

i.e. when you realised that you couldn't tack or motor away from the shoals.

You should have thrown your anchor overboard. Ideally a new generation anchor.

That would have averted the danger.

I'm picking up a second anchor tomorrow and will keep it somewhere in the cockpit so I can deploy it quickly next time.
Next time I'll probably deploy it and rip the transom off, Jaws style!

 

[1Shug]

1Shug - just a thought. I'm wondering if you were capturing your track in the Navionics app on your tablet? If so then perhaps you could share a screen shot showing the few minutes before you grounded. That might help the community to understand a little better exactly how the situation developed.

I'd not got round to using the tracks function but will do next time. One thing I did do on Navionics was mistake the sandbanks for land which didn't help my situation!

 

[Vega1447]

I'd not got round to using the tracks function but will do next time. One thing I did do on Navionics was mistake the sandbanks for land which didn't help my situation!

It is a very neat facility imo.

And nice to be able to review a day sail (or longer) with a coffee or other beverage to hand.

Reviewing tacking angles isn't always what you hoped for...

 

[Seven Spades]

You made a small error very large. You recognised the danger, you tacked but with too little speed you di not manage to make it round through the wind. You then started the outboard, good but... if you had just let the jib sheets fly you would have been able to turn the boat and you would to have had a story to tell.

So take the pressure off the sale by releasing the sheets and the boat will turn under engine quite easily.

 

[dolabriform]

Reviewing tacking angles isn't always what you hoped for...

Ain't that the truth! :disgust:

 

[kayenox]

One thing I did do on Navionics was mistake the sandbanks for land which didn't help my situation!

At certain states of tide, the sandbanks are land! At the point where things went wrong, you will have gone past several markers (inner crouch safe-water buoy, Holliwell point lateral marker and northerly cardinal "crouch"). I would strongly suggest that you need to have your head 'out of the boat' ie not focused on an app but rather looking out, knowing where you are by visual references.

Also, there seems to be a lot of focus on why the boat couldn't tack, starting an outboard (which takes time) - some valid points about speed through a tack - but I can't see if you'd struggled why you couldn't then just bear away and go all the way round and gybe out of trouble? Or maybe I'm just not visualising exactly the layout of your dilemma!

 

[Pye_End]

some valid points about speed through a tack - but I can't see if you'd struggled why you couldn't then just bear away and go all the way round and gybe out of trouble?

Indeed. My first thought.

Sometimes in a squall it is a struggle to tack, so it is best to stay well away from a lee shore - try to tack early so that if it fails then you still have enough sea room to go the long way round. If you do, make sure the gybe is controlled, and that all heads are lower than the boom.

It's all part of a learning curve.