Confused of Cowes

[Lightwave395]

I've just sailed my boat back to Falmouth from Southern Brittany with my OH, left Brest Saturday after a 5 minute trouble free checkout at the Frontier office near the Chateau marina. We arrived 20 hours later and picked up our new St Just mooring as the weather was closing in late Sunday with food and other luggage to offload but we abandoned the boat, just grabbed what we could and retreated to a local hotel as the boat was getting bounced around and we'd basically had enough...
I called Yachtline and had a pleasant conversation with a guy giving him all the details and explaining that I hadn't yet filled in the c1331 (if it still existed) and as I'd left my car at the boatyard we would be leaving first thing yesterday morning to drive home to Cowes. He said don't worry about that, fill it all in when you get home, you can take down your 'Q' flag and be on your way, well I've just tried to do the paperwork online but seems it can't be done as it's changed (again) since 29th April and it won't accept any sailing plan with past dates / times. I phoned Border Force and a guy says oh yes (laughing) , had that a couple of times now, just put today's date in the voyage plan and it'll be fine

I'm waiting to be hauled off to the tower...

 

[Boathook]

I get the impression that border force are realistic about paperwork and small vessels 'legally' crossing the channel. Time and place of arrival can vary quite a bit depending upon weather and sea state.

 

[Lightwave395]

I get the impression that border force are realistic about paperwork and small vessels 'legally' crossing the channel. Time and place of arrival can vary quite a bit depending upon weather and sea state.

My conclusion too thus far...

 

[st599]

I've just sailed my boat back to Falmouth from Southern Brittany with my OH, left Brest Saturday after a 5 minute trouble free checkout at the Frontier office near the Chateau marina. We arrived 20 hours later and picked up our new St Just mooring as the weather was closing in late Sunday with food and other luggage to offload but we abandoned the boat, just grabbed what we could and retreated to a local hotel as the boat was getting bounced around and we'd basically had enough...
I called Yachtline and had a pleasant conversation with a guy giving him all the details and explaining that I hadn't yet filled in the c1331 (if it still existed) and as I'd left my car at the boatyard we would be leaving first thing yesterday morning to drive home to Cowes. He said don't worry about that, fill it all in when you get home, you can take down your 'Q' flag and be on your way, well I've just tried to do the paperwork online but seems it can't be done as it's changed (again) since 29th April and it won't accept any sailing plan with past dates / times. I phoned Border Force and a guy says oh yes (laughing) , had that a couple of times now, just put today's date in the voyage plan and it'll be fine

I'm waiting to be hauled off to the tower...

All changed on the 18th April.

The form now queries the Border Force database to see if the crew can enter the UK. You have to wait for confirmation before starting the trip.

 

[st599]

I get the impression that border force are realistic about paperwork and small vessels 'legally' crossing the channel. Time and place of arrival can vary quite a bit depending upon weather and sea state.

It's now up to the skipper to send advanced passenger information, check paperwork if required or offload crew depending on what the database reply is.

 

[lustyd]

I think the new system is very good, although comms around it has been a little lacking.

The link is Tell Border Force and HMRC you are sailing to or from the UK in a pleasure craft if anybody is planning to cross the border. Register and fill in your boat and passport details now, and then when you go you just have to add any additional crew and your passage plan, making it very easy and quick. It even checks non-UK passports and tells you whether they need to report or if they can just carry on without.

 

[dunedin]

All changed on the 18th April.

The form now queries the Border Force database to see if the crew can enter the UK. You have to wait for confirmation before starting the trip.

That seems to be key - need to plan ahead and complete BEFORE setting off. Just like air travel has been for years, can’t leave till after landed. Good that the OP got a relaxed response to this mistake,

 

[st599]

I think the new system is very good, although comms around it has been a little lacking.

The link is Tell Border Force and HMRC you are sailing to or from the UK in a pleasure craft if anybody is planning to cross the border. Register and fill in your boat and passport details now, and then when you go you just have to add any additional crew and your passage plan, making it very easy and quick. It even checks non-UK passports and tells you whether they need to report or if they can just carry on without.

It was updated recently so that you get a reply for each person on board saying OK to travel, Skipper to check paperwork and report that it's not counterfeit or person may not board and must be left behind.

The skipper is now legally responsible for the paperwork checks that a Border Force officer would usually do.

The meeting the Home Office held for sailors raised a load of questions, none of which have been answered. For example, you have to report within 24 hours of arrival, which is a problem if your passage is multi-days long. And how do you offload a crewmember if already en route?

 

[Daydream believer]

I think the new system is very good, although comms around it has been a little lacking.

The link is Tell Border Force and HMRC you are sailing to or from the UK in a pleasure craft if anybody is planning to cross the border. Register and fill in your boat and passport details now, and then when you go you just have to add any additional crew and your passage plan, making it very easy and quick. It even checks non-UK passports and tells you whether they need to report or if they can just carry on without.

That link did not work for me

 

[mjcoon]

That link did not work for me

Glitch? It works for me in your cited version...

 

[lustyd]

For example, you have to report within 24 hours of arrival, which is a problem if your passage is multi-days long. And how do you offload a crewmember if already en route?

I'm not sure I see the problem. Reporting in within 24 hours of arrival is regardless of voyage length. For most that will mean arriving then reporting, for some that means getting it done over Starlink while still en route. Even with Starlink I'll wait until I'm near land.
If you're thinking of ditching crew then you've entirely misunderstood the process. You're responsible for checking they can travel, within reason. You're also responsible if it turns out they aren't allowed in, so may have to pay for a flight. You are perfectly entitled to ask them (the crew) to pay for their exit ticket if they are denied entry, but you are still responsible.

I can't envisage a more sensible way for this to work?

 

[lustyd]

That link did not work for me

This is where the system falls down. Not everyone is IT literate enough to manage with the new system or troubleshoot when it doesn't work so hopefully the old paper forms will remain acceptable or a new procedure put in place.
As shown on this thread though, the UK doesn't have a very effective border and a friendly phone call is usually sufficient to sort it. Let's hope the Daily Mail don't read the thread and realise!

 

[st599]

I'm not sure I see the problem. Reporting in within 24 hours of arrival is regardless of voyage length. For most that will mean arriving then reporting, for some that means getting it done over Starlink while still en route. Even with Starlink I'll wait until I'm near land.
If you're thinking of ditching crew then you've entirely misunderstood the process. You're responsible for checking they can travel, within reason. You're also responsible if it turns out they aren't allowed in, so may have to pay for a flight. You are perfectly entitled to ask them (the crew) to pay for their exit ticket if they are denied entry, but you are still responsible.

I can't envisage a more sensible way for this to work?

I haven't misunderstood the process. The process changed on 18th April 2024 and the Home Office had a long Zoom call with clubs about it..

They were very specific that you must be outside the UK when the form is used and now can not report on arrival and then, for each person on the form, the skipper is told:

1. This person can travel to the UK
2. This person requires a check of visa and passports, to be undertaken by the skipper and reported to Border Force
3. This person can not travel to the UK and must be offloaded.

They were also specific that anyone in category 3 could not enter the UK at all. Not that they could land, then get a flight back.

 

[lustyd]

With respect, you're still missing the point. The initial report with your trip plan obviously goes in before you travel, otherwise how else would you submit it? You then confirm you got to the UK within 24 hours of arrival to tell them you carried out the planned voyage.
If you get a refusal of entry for one of your crew and still decide to travel then that's entirely on you. I would get them off before setting sail like any sensible skipper. If you arrive having been told they are OK and they are refused entry then there are various ways to get them out of the country, a flight being one.

 

[ithet]

I have had the issue of not being able to enter a departure time in the past. Last year I forgot to go online and enter my departure from Alderney although I had the details pre prepared. I could not get signal again until passing the needles, so set the departure as current time and estimated Lymington half hour later. I decided that the arrival in UK is more important to them anyway.

 

[Seven Spades]

I just use the paper forms and email them and call the yachtline when I arrive. I have a PDF on my lap top and I just fill it out it is so much simpler than trying to fight with useless technology.

 

[Seven Spades]

Incidently you don't need a passport when going to the CI's and the electronic form tries to make you enter a passport number and without it does not work so this is an over reach it is a backdoor way of trying to force us to use passports internally within the British Isles.

 

[lustyd]

I just use the paper forms and email them and call the yachtline when I arrive. I have a PDF on my lap top and I just fill it out it is so much simpler than trying to fight with useless technology.

It’s not useless it authorises passports prior to arrival among other things. You may not personally find it useful but that doesn’t mean it’s not.
Hopefully the paper forms remain and you won’t have to learn to live in the modern world, but it might be worth putting in a tiny bit of effort just in case. The alternative could be a free flight to Rwanda (you are on a small boat, I assume!)

 

[lustyd]

Incidently you don't need a passport when going to the CI's and the electronic form tries to make you enter a passport number and without it does not work so this is an over reach it is a backdoor way of trying to force us to use passports internally within the British Isles.

Not sure I agree. You don’t need to check in, but you do need to identify who is on the boat. Since you could very easily end up in French waters it’s only sensible to have your passport with you.
Unfortunately the portion of people in the UK screaming for border controls is currently louder than those shouting for freedom so this will only get worse, and thanks to democracy it will be on purpose and totally our own fault as a nation.

 

[Seven Spades]

Not sure I agree. You don’t need to check in, but you do need to identify who is on the boat. Since you could very easily end up in French waters it’s only sensible to have your passport with you.
Unfortunately the portion of people in the UK screaming for border controls is currently louder than those shouting for freedom so this will only get worse, and thanks to democracy it will be on purpose and totally our own fault as a nation.

No the channel islands are part of the "Common travel area" and no passport is required. I am old enough to remember flying from Hern Airport to Jersey for a holiday before I possessed a passport.