What has happened to all the motorsailers?

[wully1]

Yes they are close! But like I said in my last post I’ve ruled out Amel because too big (over 50ft), too expensive and mostly only 2 cabins whereas I want 3.

Sharky.....

 

[Sharky34]

Sharky.....
[/QUOTE


You called?

 

[wully1]

you should buy an Amel Sharky - or are you lucky enough to already own one?

 

[Sharky34]

Nope

you should buy an Amel Sharky - or are you lucky enough to already own one?

 

[Rob_Webb]

Thanks, Amel Sharki is a new discovery but.... slightly too small at 39’ and 2 cabins, whereas I’m looking for 45-50ft and 3 cabins. But you guys are coming up with some interesting ideas!

I agree the definition of “Motorsailor” could be debated long and hard - and in fact it already has been by the sound of it. So I’m not intending to re-open that debate here.

In my original post and title I was using the term Motorsailor as a proxy for a style of boat that offered enclosed wheelhouse comfort with the ability to motor or sail reasonably in short sleeves in inclement weather. I don’t want to take on Cape Horn - just go family cruising without the need for wet weather gear if it starts drizzling.

 

[Rob_Webb]

Have you looked at a jongert ? When the waves roll down the deck and the large Mercedes diesel ploughs on you stay cozy under the hard top and even when on night passage in the med under mizzen and headsail the hardtop and wheel with comfy chair means it's not too arduous standing the early morning watch and keeping an eye on radar up top. . Plenty of older smaller versions out there - they did do them in smaller versions than 23 m which might be a bit OTT .

No I haven’t. First glance interesting looking boats. Possibly bigger versions of the Salar 40 and similar era i.e. not as modern as today’s designs down below but nice looking wheelhouse shelter for when it’s bad and nice open aft deck space for when it’s good.

 

[rotrax]

It is horses for courses.
We have the most modern design for a motorsailer so far, the Island Packet SP Cruiser.
The SP stands for sail/power. Use what is best for the conditions or a combination of both.
We are both unashamed travellers by water. If the wind will not serve, up goes the Iron Jib. Sailing ability, for us, is a nice to have, not a must have. The single power winch makes sail handling really easy for a couple of pensioners, one with a very arthritic right wrist. The major must have was easy on/off from the large swim platform. This feature alone should keep us sailing - or at least boating - for a good few years longer. No climbing up the freeboard!
We average 1700NM's each season we use the boat. Use 400 litres of fuel. Aboard most years for 5 months non stop.

Our boat was chosen the way we chose our other boats. Make a list of must haves and nice to haves.
Then check them off. We chose the SP Cruiser because it had almost all the must haves and plenty of nice to haves and I have added several nice to haves since, like a sodding great genset and an extra 40 litre freezer unit.

The boat was the only one we could find that had side by side pilot seats at the helm. With the large pilot house table extended it can seat nine. It has a walk round double bed in the main cabin plus two singles for guests, but with limited headroom in that cabin.

After looking at how Laminar Flow improved his lovely Colvic around the rudder /keel area I can see that our boat might benefit from such work also.

But, can I be arsed? Going astern and turning circle, like most long keelers, is a bit of a lottery. But we manage as we have a bow thruster.

What I can say is thay it is BY FAR the most comfortable boat for extended living on we have had, to the extent that a major downsize at home is on the cards. This, when we are suitably " De Junked " will mean we will move to a smaller and less expensive dwelling.

Perhaps releasing funds for more cruising.

A centre cockpit/hard wheelhouse boat is an option but in no way IMHO are they motorsailers.

 

[dunedin]

...................... what I’m looking for is a centre-cockpit protected sailing boat. You could take many of today’s modern centre cockpit boats and if you simply made the dodger solid and moved the wheel forward (and slightly to one side probably) then you would have it.

Or put another way, a smaller, more affordable version of an Amel above decks ...............

Each to their own, but for me the Amel wheel position might have been useful 30 years ago, before good autopilots, but is an anachronism and the worst possible solution today. The Amel wheel position would certainly be a deal breaker for me.

If you think about the way we tend to sail these days, I think twin wheels plus a Scandinavian windscreen and sprayhood (like modern Halberg Rassy, some X-Yachts etc) is ideal.
The only time people tend to hand steer is when manoeuvring (on off pontoons etc) and when enjoying the fun of sailing, when wind in the hair, sitting on the high side and being able to see the luff of the sails is what you want. An enclosed steering position is the worst option for these situations.
When motoring, when on passage, or when wet, most of us put the autopilot on - and on a wet night watch, sitting in the companionway looking through the windscreen with a mug of coffee is perfect. Why waste the precious dry space with a redundant steering position.

NB. I tend to sail in northern latitudes, and yet only had an oilskin jacket on about 4 days last season - and never during winter sailing.

 

[JumbleDuck]

... a variable pitch prop. Such a system is unpleasantly expensive and I'm saving my kidney for something else.

Brilliant!

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Each to their own, but for me the Amel wheel position might have been useful 30 years ago, before good autopilots, but is an anachronism and the worst possible solution today. The Amel wheel position would certainly be a deal breaker for me.

If you think about the way we tend to sail these days, I think twin wheels plus a Scandinavian windscreen and sprayhood (like modern Halberg Rassy, some X-Yachts etc) is ideal.
The only time people tend to hand steer is when manoeuvring (on off pontoons etc) and when enjoying the fun of sailing, when wind in the hair, sitting on the high side and being able to see the luff of the sails is what you want. An enclosed steering position is the worst option for these situations.
When motoring, when on passage, or when wet, most of us put the autopilot on - and on a wet night watch, sitting in the companionway looking through the windscreen with a mug of coffee is perfect. Why waste the precious dry space with a redundant steering position.

NB. I tend to sail in northern latitudes, and yet only had an oilskin jacket on about 4 days last season - and never during winter sailing.

I think you're overstating the usefulness of autopilots. Yes, many people have them (including me!), but they aren't universal by any means. And further, although I've got an autopilot, I tend to use it only when I'm under engine; under sail a) I prefer not to flatten my batteries and b) I can do a better job than the autopilot anyway - I can see the sails, wind shadows and waves and react to them; the autopilot just ploughs ahead! Its main use under sail is to liberate me from the tiller for a few minutes while I attend to something else. Under engine, it does a better job than I do; it doesn't get bored! But even under engine, I can make life easier for everyone by adapting to the waves to make the motion easier; the autopilot can do that to a limited extent as long as the wave pattern is consistent, but it is of limited effect in most UK coastal waters.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I think you're overstating the usefulness of autopilots. Yes, many people have them (including me!), but they aren't universal by any means. And further, although I've got an autopilot, I tend to use it only when I'm under engine; under sail a) I prefer not to flatten my batteries and b) I can do a better job than the autopilot anyway - I can see the sails, wind shadows and waves and react to them; the autopilot just ploughs ahead! Its main use under sail is to liberate me from the tiller for a few minutes while I attend to something else.

Same here, almost. I had an old Navico tiller pilot which came with the boat and a spare as backup. Very handy, but like you I only use it continuously under power, partly because I try to be electrically frugal and partly because I actually like sailing. I also have a Sea Feather wind vane which I have been meaning to recommission for years - it's a bugger to set up but when it's working it steers far better than I can.

Last year I was given a posher Navico, which uses the same fittings but has a remote control. That has changed things a little, because I can sit in the companionway, legs dangling into the cabin and steer interested courses while sheltering from rain under the sprayhood. With the old Navico changing course is a lot less convenient.

We also sometimes use a tiller line and turning blocks to steer directly from the companionway.

 

[Refueler]

Thanks, Amel Sharki is a new discovery but.... slightly too small at 39’ and 2 cabins, whereas I’m looking for 45-50ft and 3 cabins. But you guys are coming up with some interesting ideas!

I agree the definition of “Motorsailor” could be debated long and hard - and in fact it already has been by the sound of it. So I’m not intending to re-open that debate here.

In my original post and title I was using the term Motorsailor as a proxy for a style of boat that offered enclosed wheelhouse comfort with the ability to motor or sail reasonably in short sleeves in inclement weather. I don’t want to take on Cape Horn - just go family cruising without the need for wet weather gear if it starts drizzling.

Maybe the term PIlothouse fits the bill better ............

 

[Refueler]

I'm surprised that the Moody Eclipse hasn't been mentioned ... for me the 43 says it all ..... comfort ... sails well ... motors well .... layout is good ...

 

[Sticky Fingers]

I'm surprised that the Moody Eclipse hasn't been mentioned ... for me the 43 says it all ..... comfort ... sails well ... motors well .... layout is good ...

OP was after something much newer I think....:

...So why isn't there a modern equivalent of this? imagine a 40-45ft modern version of the Salar with all the ergonomic, performance and space benefits of modern yacht design plus the huge benefits of wheelhouse comfort? And at an affordable, production boat price point not expensive niche market semi-custom builds....

 

[Refueler]

OP was after something much newer I think....:

OK ... I did notice that ... but for me - the ME 43 actually bridges the old to new design gap.

It must have something going for it .......... seen the second hand prices ? And you don't see many on market ... they are what are termed 'Keepers' !!

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Yes I agree, it was a great boat, and commendably rare (38 built over a couple of years) so good ones likely to have done all the depreciation now. But it looks and feels old compared to modern designs (and that may be a good thing or not). Small cockpit especially.

 

[Rappey]

think you're overstating the usefulness of autopilots

I would agree with the poster you disagree with. I've a very heavy long keel with wheel steering.
Was out in a F7 with 4m seas and wind on the beam. I was struggling to maintain direction as no visible reference point other than the compass whilst the boat laboured then surged over each wave.
The hydraulic auto pilot was vastly superior keeping heading. With solar and wind generation powering it is no problem.
Yes it's nice to "sail the boat" but it can also become tiresome over a longer distance

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I would agree with the poster you disagree with. I've a very heavy long keel with wheel steering.
Was out in a F7 with 4m seas and wind on the beam. I was struggling to maintain direction as no visible reference point other than the compass whilst the boat laboured then surged over each wave.
The hydraulic auto pilot was vastly superior keeping heading. With solar and wind generation powering it is no problem.
Yes it's nice to "sail the boat" but it can also become tiresome over a longer distance

I'd argue that the whole point is that maintaining an exact compass course isn't what you should be doing under those circumstances; steering to the waves and wind with occasional checks of the compass will give a more comfortable journey. If I were habitually doing long passages, I'd look for windvane steering systems, which do react to changes in wind. It's also my habit to work up to windward of the compass course, other things being equal; it's much easier to drop down to leeward when necessary than it is to have to make up to windward But obviously it's horses for courses; what suits me, my boat and my type of sailing may not suit another.

 

[Rappey]

I do agree with your strategy.
I just wanted to get home after my crew had all left and was holed up for 3 days of bad weather . It was an 18 hr journey and didn't relish adding many many more hrs for a more comfortable ride.

 

[dunedin]

I think you're overstating the usefulness of autopilots. Yes, many people have them (including me!), but they aren't universal by any means. And further, although I've got an autopilot, I tend to use it only when I'm under engine; under sail a) I prefer not to flatten my batteries and b) I can do a better job than the autopilot anyway - I can see the sails, wind shadows and waves and react to them; the autopilot just ploughs ahead! Its main use under sail is to liberate me from the tiller for a few minutes while I attend to something else. Under engine, it does a better job than I do; it doesn't get bored! But even under engine, I can make life easier for everyone by adapting to the waves to make the motion easier; the autopilot can do that to a limited extent as long as the wave pattern is consistent, but it is of limited effect in most UK coastal waters.

You might be amazed by the abilities of the best modern autopilots (ram driven, gyro and modern software at a minimum). These have developed hugely, partly due to the need to race Open 60s through the southern oceans on autopilot. In most conditions, but especially at night, the AP can steer much better than 99% of humans.
NB No relation to ancient autohelms which were near useless by comparison.