What has happened to all the motorsailers?

[Tranona]

All you motorsailor lovers form an orderly queue brighton.boatshed.com/fiskars_finnclipper_35-boat-336445.html bonus of not one but 2 Captain Pugwash steering wheels

 

[dancrane]

His and Hers. No arguments there, then. Doubtless there's also a tiller, for budding Billy Budd to heave on.

 

[Laminar Flow]

Not sure what the fuss is, unless its the deco steering wheels that cause offense. Twin, side-by-side, his & hers steering wheels are currently all de rigeur, even on ridiculously small boats, where the wheels almost touch in the centre and obstruct passage in the cockpit (HR 34). Apparently, they are necessary to operate the ever growing number of rudders needed to keep these things on track. Some yards not only offer models with the, meanwhile standard, two, but now with three rudders ( Sirius e.g.). Just to make sure the owners can safely park their half a million, 32' investment in their marina of choice.

On a technical level and by contemporary standards, I find this example rather restrained, even though the seafaring attitude on display is, in my opinion, precisely what killed the traditional motorsailer: Cottage by the sea, man cave for the nautically timid or the elderly, retired, but new to sailing crowd, where MOTOR in motorsailer is spelled in all caps.
What they could have been and still can be, with a bit of pimping, so that they can actually reach their destination under sail, is an all-weather, smaller and affordable ersatz for what are now called "expedition yachts"; for those occasions when you do not need the extra space to accommodate another five penguin researchers, do not want the expense of all aluminium construction and are willing to settle for ridiculously over-built GRP instead.

Been there, done that. Not Antarctica, but Norway, Shetland, Orkney and Scotland. Not much warmer, but wetter. Close enough to be called a challenging climate and distant enough, for us, to be called an expedition.

 

[Tranona]

Not sure what the fuss is, unless its the deco steering wheels that cause offense. Twin, side-by-side, his & hers steering wheels are currently all de rigeur, even on ridiculously small boats, where the wheels almost touch in the centre and obstruct passage in the cockpit (HR 34). Apparently, they are necessary to operate the ever growing number of rudders needed to keep these things on track. Some yards not only offer models with the, meanwhile standard, two, but now with three rudders ( Sirius e.g.). Just to make sure the owners can safely park their half a million, 32' investment in their marina of choice.

On a technical level and by contemporary standards, I find this example rather restrained, even though the seafaring attitude on display is, in my opinion, precisely what killed the traditional motorsailer: Cottage by the sea, man cave for the nautically timid or the elderly, retired, but new to sailing crowd, where MOTOR in motorsailer is spelled in all caps.
What they could have been and still can be, with a bit of pimping, so that they can actually reach their destination under sail, is an all-weather, smaller and affordable ersatz for what are now called "expedition yachts"; for those occasions when you do not need the extra space to accommodate another five penguin researchers, do not want the expense of all aluminium construction and are willing to settle for ridiculously over-built GRP instead.

Been there, done that. Not Antarctica, but Norway, Shetland, Orkney and Scotland. Not much warmer, but wetter. Close enough to be called a challenging climate and distant enough, for us, to be called an expedition.

Well. it is currently a houseboat in Brighton marina - hence the pot plants in the conservatory. It was never intended to be a sailing boat but a potterer in the short balmy Scandinavian summer.

 

[Laminar Flow]

Yes, started out as a MoBo, later had a bit of keel bolted under and a modest rig added. SA/D, at 9.95, actually better than a Colvic Watson 32 or 35 (9.4 and 8.6). The Finnsailer has also a lighter length/displacement ratio, which has a significant effect on max speed, 249 versus 361 (CW 32) and 437 (CW 35).
Still, most MS have dismal SA/D's and very few even reach the margins of 13 - 14, as proposed by T. Brewer and others. The Germanic LLoyd has for insurance purposes determined that the cut-off point between MoBo and motorsailer is a SA/D of 8, as they do not believe that such a vessel would be able to escape a lee shore under sail alone. It should be noted, that the danger of a lee shore is not restricted to storm force conditions, but also light airs, when a, ahem, snug rig may not develop enough drive to make way to weather. Going gently onto the rocks, apparently still counts as going on the rocks.

I recently had a look at a Cabo Rico MS 40. This boat has a proper wheelhouse, nice cockpit with a geriatrically useful transom gate with bathing platform and a tall, efficient rig. Underwater, a partially immersed transom allows for an extremely flat run and all appendages, with a long fin (for grounding safely) and skeg hung rudder, are fastidiously faired (unlike some others). This boat, according to all reports, can motor at 9 kts and make good some 9.5 kts under sail.
There is no doubt in my mind, that such a vessel would make a very fine cruiser.

Ironically, it has been the advent of "expedition yachts" that have made people realize that a "real" cruiser will by necessity be a displacement yacht and moreover, can have some form of covered steering.
A notable example are the Boreals that provide a Star Wars' pod on deck, where the Skipper may watch his penguin research crew chip the ice off the deck, their astonishingly low AVS not withstanding.

 

[MisterBaxter]

Huge props are one thing that slows them down, but most MS have abysmal SA/D ratios (sail area/ displacement), by comparison with "real" sailboats., which is the real culprit.

Some hull shapes could not stand to carry more sail, the Fisher is one of them (for all of those who dream of putting a large rig on one of them).
I saw a Fisher 34 that had a 50' tall mast on her and had a chat with her owner. I had seen her sales documentation and had noted that she did appear to sail at rather startling angles of heel. The owner told me that she would never do more than 5kts. In 20kt on the beam she would top out at 5kt, in 25 kt she would still only do 5 kt. I was rather astonished by this as our "pimped" CW 32 will be doing well over 7kt in 20kt and 8 kts or more in 25kts of wind. My conclusion is that the Fisher hull with large amounts of immersed volume does not have enough initial stability to carry that kind of rig.

I would think that if you want to drive a bulky hull that doesn't have a deep bulb keel to keep it upright, you'd want to do what the builders of similar hulls did in the days of working sail, which is to extent the rig fore and aft rather than vertically - long bowsprit, long boom, not too tall a mast.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I would think that if you want to drive a bulky hull that doesn't have a deep bulb keel to keep it upright, you'd want to do what the builders of similar hulls did in the days of working sail, which is to extent the rig fore and aft rather than vertically - long bowsprit, long boom, not too tall a mast.

But length (even if it's bowsprits) = marina fees......

 

[Laminar Flow]

I would think that if you want to drive a bulky hull that doesn't have a deep bulb keel to keep it upright, you'd want to do what the builders of similar hulls did in the days of working sail, which is to extent the rig fore and aft rather than vertically - long bowsprit, long boom, not too tall a mast.

Yes, I agree. Some MS would indeed be better off with a gaff rig. Also, putting a high aspect rig, which is excellent for going to windward, on a hull that is not, makes little sense.

How to deal with long bowsprits in port has been well established for ages, if not centuries.
Ours can be folded up.
No one has ever asked us to do that or charged us for it and mostly we have been well within the from 9m -12m price model.

 

[dancrane]

But length (even if it's bowsprits) = marina fees...

Even today, when I pictured my gaff schooner-rigged Fisher 25 (or perhaps something less cramped) I was thinking the overhanging main boom would need a disconnectable gooseneck, so that with the retracting bowsprit, she could stay within her length-on-deck, in her berth.

I always thought telescopic carbon topmasts might be entertaining too, for huge topsails in light airs when heavy motorsailers are apt to wallow.

In the real world the weather stops me buying a yacht, and hull speed stops me buying a motorsailer. In my brief time off work I'd never make a landfall beyond Hampshire, so any sailing yacht is likely to feel poor value in cost versus reward. I'm tempted to buy a small hardtop motorboat.

The motorboat could have a Mirror dinghy in davits. I could sail the Mirror from home, or once we reach a distant location of interest.

I could sail as long as I liked, while first mate keeps a discreet distance at the heated helm of the idling motorboat, amused by her iPad. Each night the Mirror is hoisted in and I camp in luxury; and when the weather turns, we sit inside, 18 knots all the way home. Have I solved cheap fun motorsailing?
.

 

[Stemar]

All you motorsailor lovers form an orderly queue brighton.boatshed.com/fiskars_finnclipper_35-boat-336445.html bonus of not one but 2 Captain Pugwash steering wheels

Could be a nice boat with a bit quite a lot of TLC. If I did take the plunge, the first job would be to get rid of that saloon carpet!

Big thumbs up to Boatshed for the very honest photos but, given the amount of work needed, the price seems optimistic, especially with an engine of that age, that may not have run for several years