What boat for my circumstances?

[Tranona]

I have also been looking at the Hurley 22 which seems very capable for its size. I was even reading a few crazy stories about people crossing the Atlantic in them and one person even crossing the pacific in a Hurley 22!

Yes - can't recall the name of the lovely lady who did it - 'tis 40 years ago!. My then employer British Seagull gave her some assistance by lending her a new(ish) engine as her original was getting past it.

The 24/70 in post#132 is a derivative of the 22 with the extended stern, more freeboard, bit more displacement, bigger rig and crucially an inboard. If I remember it won its class in the first single handed round Britain race. Just the sort of boat that would do the job for you. A bit spartan, but the owners have done a good job in keeping it up to date with good nav gear, self tailing winches (at over £500 each!) and a good Yanmar inboard. If it is as good in the real as it looks in the pictures then maybe worth you jumping in your car to go and have a look to see what you can get well within your budget.

 

[penfold]

Something like the boat in the first photo possibly named Sheep might be closer to budget? Looks a neat little boat.

Looks like a seamaster 925, nice enough for what they are, capable of doing what he wants aside from the trailer sailing and available in the OP's budget.

I am trying to visualise a Wayfarer with a wheelhouse......

It will look a lot like those daft 'shortest' record seeking yachts crossing the atlantic etc; they all look like barrels and about as comfortable as an iron maiden.

 

[MisterBaxter]

Just a thought but if you're ok with the idea of spending a few hours shifting the boat in and out of the water, would you be ok with spending a couple of hours driving down the east coast instead? If you kept a boat somewhere slightly less dramatic in terms of tides, such as Inverness, you might get more sailing days. I know from experience of sailing in the Bristol Channel that it can be hard to get a day on the water when you need your own time and the weather to line up with the right tide times. I don't know Inverness but if there are deep water swinging moorings you can sail off at any time, it's vastly easier to get sailing, and your choice of boats is far less restricted.

 

[dunedin]

Just a thought but if you're ok with the idea of spending a few hours shifting the boat in and out of the water, would you be ok with spending a couple of hours driving down the east coast instead? If you kept a boat somewhere slightly less dramatic in terms of tides, such as Inverness, you might get more sailing days. I know from experience of sailing in the Bristol Channel that it can be hard to get a day on the water when you need your own time and the weather to line up with the right tide times. I don't know Inverness but if there are deep water swinging moorings you can sail off at any time, it's vastly easier to get sailing, and your choice of boats is far less restricted.

Somebody has already suggested Lochinver as an option. Great harbour and some of the UK’s best sailing waters, with modest tides

 

[Refueler]

Nobody has mentioned the Macgregor 26 yet...............

Yes I did .... but surely not for NE Scotland !! I wouldn't take it on a lake having experienced one !!

 

[Refueler]

Curiosity has got the better of me! Does anyone have a link to that thread?

He's being a bit unfair.

Its common practice to have an A frame to lower and raise the moderate to heavy weight masts .... they range from simple wood to metal poles as I use. Its ONLY for Deck Stepped masts.
My mast needs 3 people to carry it comfortably .. 2 can, but its not for me at my age.

Why A frame ? One of the biggest factors in lowering / raising mast is keeping it from swinging to the side - which can damage the mast if a tabernacle - or snap off the cast allow foot like mine.

Here's a video of it in use ... not that my pal ignores my advice to NOT move while we lower ... all he had to do was to steady the mast ... all weight etc. is on the tackle. He moves, boat leans and mast swings ...

I need to negotiate 3 bridges to get to harbour and Baltic Sea ..... previouly I used to get friends to help ..... now I can do it single handed and in same amount of time as with help.

Youtube is full of A Frame and various ways to do this.

I know some suggest a Gin Pole ... a single pole from front of mast to put rope runner to angle ... BUT I strongly advise not to. I did this one time ... I was lucky not to damage mast as the Gin Pole slewed to side as the mast went through the haltway point - because the line of force was now longer fwd ..

My A Frame is overkill ... but it was metal tubing I had from Towns Basket Ball hall ....

The base of each pole has two wood boards with long coach bolt through ... the bolt long enough to pass through my shroud eyes on toe rail. The wood protecting the GRP.
Heave / lowering tackle is my Mainsheets.
The mast lines are my spinnaker halyard and the lower storms'l halyard.

 

[tommy2]

I have to say I am very tempted to go for something a little smaller in the 22 -23 feet range. Out of interest, which of the below boats would people trust the most if they were caught out in bad conditions? I am guessing the Hurley 22 and the Westerly Pageant, but I would be interested to hear other peoples views.

Snapdragon 23
Anderson 22
Westerly Pageant 23
Westerly nomad 22
Hurley 22
Elizabethan 23
Seamaster 23

 

[Refueler]

I have to say I am very tempted to go for something a little smaller in the 22 -23 feet range. Out of interest, which of the below boats would people trust the most if they were caught out in bad conditions? I am guessing the Hurley 22 and the Westerly Pageant, but I would be interested to hear other peoples views.

Snapdragon 23
Anderson 22
Westerly Pageant 23
Westerly nomad 22
Hurley 22
Elizabethan 23
Seamaster 23

It will be personal bias and as a consequence poor way to decide ...... those boats - you will find many here have had one or other ... that will 'colour' their reply ... as is mine listing ...... listing #1 as my preferred and then down to #7 as least ...

#4 Snapdragon 23
#6 Anderson 22
#1 Westerly Pageant 23
#5 Westerly nomad 22
#7 Hurley 22
#2 Elizabethan 23
#3 Seamaster 23

Out of those boats - I have personal sailing experience of #1, #3, #4, #5. Knew owners and sailed in company with #2, #6 and #7.

If I was presented with that lot and had to choose one ... its hands down the Pageant. None of the others can touch it for accommodation ........ full headroom ... full 4 berths .... and because of the bow spray chine - remarkably dry boats even in weather.

#2 and #3 .. its a toss up on those two ... decider would be what comes with the boat but if similar spec etc. - the the Seamaster despite my rating in the list ... why ? Again its down to accommodation - but it has a strange offset cabin sole which takes some getting used to. The Elizabethan will tend to a wetter boat into weather ....

I've tried to be as unbiased as possible - but I declare as an ex owner of Snap 23 and a fondness for the Pageant.

 

[onesea]

My suggestion would be to small and easy to rig and launch. Your more likely to sail her if it’s simple.

Drascome long boat? Falmouth bass boat? Cornish crabber? Anderson 22? Cape cutter 19? Supper Sea22?

There are plenty more of the type.

Yes they are going to restrict sailing a little in heavier weather.

However they are much easier to trailer Sail and could be recovered easier and towed by decent sized car to and from distant ports.

 

[tommy2]

My suggestion would be to small and easy to rig and launch. Your more likely to sail her if it’s simple.

Drascome long boat? Falmouth bass boat?

If I am being honest, I think they are a bit small for what I am looking for. I already have a sailing dinghy and really want something I can grow into over time and spend extended periods sleeping on the boat during holidays. I am also mindful of the conditions up here.

 

[tommy2]

If I was presented with that lot and had to choose one ... its hands down the Pageant. None of the others can touch it for accommodation ........ full headroom ... full 4 berths .... and because of the bow spray chine - remarkably dry boats even in weather.

Thanks for your opinion. I suppose my only surprise is how low you ranked the Hurley 22, considering that it has sailed oceans. I thought this may say something about its seaworthiness.

I note in your ranking you have drawn on accommodation etc, but leaving everything aside apart from seaworthiness, would your rankings change? If you found yourself in very bad conditions, what would you choose?

 

[WoodyP]

Kingfisher 20 may be worth a look. If you can find one that hasn't been neglected. Kingfisher 20 - NOT FOR SALE, details for information only

 

[jamie N]

A Folkboat is designed for the conditions and the manner of usage, a fraction longer than the OP stated a preference for, but regularly available at a suitable price.
Yes, I own a Folkboat and have a bias towards them, but one would never doubt that it'd be as suitable for the area as any other in this category.

 

[fredrussell]

Snapdragon 23
Anderson 22
Westerly Pageant 23
Westerly nomad 22
Hurley 22
Elizabethan 23
Seamaster 23

From that lot, I reckon the Anderson 22 would be the most rewarding to sail. I’d echo Daydeam Believer’s post earlier in thread where he says in boisterous conditions you want a boat that’ll point high and sail well - mist bilge keelers (but certainly not all) will not point as high as a fin keel. The A22 has a big old lump of cast iron at the bottom of its lifting keel, so stiff boat for its size. I was once overtaken by one in my Super Seal 26 - bit of a blow and I didn’t reef when I should have, but I was very impressed with how the A22 was standing up to the weather.

 

[Tranona]

Thanks for your opinion. I suppose my only surprise is how low you ranked the Hurley 22, considering that it has sailed oceans. I thought this may say something about its seaworthiness.

I note in your ranking you have drawn on accommodation etc, but leaving everything aside apart from seaworthiness, would your rankings change? If you found yourself in very bad conditions, what would you choose?

The "crossing oceans" bit is really misleading as a basis for buying a boat for coastal cruising. All of those boats would be capable of doing what was done in the Hurley 22. Success in such extreme endeavours is more to do with the person than the boat. Resourcefulness and ability to cope with living in cramped conditions for weeks on end are far more important than specific choice of boat.

All of the boats on that list will do your job, but they vary enormously in terms of the comfort and space that they offer. They are all scaled down versions of larger designs aimed at the time they were built for people doing exactly what you intend - moving into cruising for the first time, probably from a dinghy background. Some are more performance orientated, some more comfort (which often means slower because of the extra bulk and weight) but in terms of "seaworthiness" doubt you would ever get anywhere near their limits. Just some would be more comfortable than others.

At this end of the market it is far more important to consider condition and equipment. A really good Elizabethan may be a better buy than a Pageant but will be cramped and wet to sail in comparison. My personal choice in your situation would be to go bigger into Centaur territory. Until you have experienced it difficult to appreciate how much more capable a boat you get for the extra 3 or 4 foot length. That is why they were so popular (2500 Centaurs compared with a low hundreds of Pageants). Like going from one of those collapsible trailer tents to a Sprite caravan. As already shown, you can get a good 26' boat well within your budget and there is a lot of growing room in the larger boat for little additional running cost.

 

[tommy2]

Yes, I own a Folkboat and have a bias towards them, but one would never doubt that it'd be as suitable for the area as any other in this category.

Which Folkboat do you own? You also say a fraction longer, which models do you have in mind?

 

[Refueler]

Thanks for your opinion. I suppose my only surprise is how low you ranked the Hurley 22, considering that it has sailed oceans. I thought this may say something about its seaworthiness.

I note in your ranking you have drawn on accommodation etc, but leaving everything aside apart from seaworthiness, would your rankings change? If you found yourself in very bad conditions, what would you choose?

I assume you will not be alone when you go sailing ?

That makes for a serious factor when considering small boats. Believe it ... 2's good ... 3's a crowd ... 4's murder.

I see the Centaur mentioned - Yes this is a boat that would be good ... BUT is not a Trailer Sailer ... of course you could but average Centaur like my SR25 have taken up moisture in the hull, laden down with gear and would be 4T mark ... may be lucky at 3.5 .. 3.7T .... so with trailer - serious weight. Mast is heavy ... A frame job.

Whatever you throw at me - I will still put the Pageant at top of your list. Its designed to get you home and with some comfort.

Folkboat ? Which version as there are at least 4 that I know of ... with the EC1D based on one of them. Yes very fine boats but like the Elizabethan - tend to be wet boats and internal volume less compared to others of similar size. But are people really suggesting OP should delve into Long Keel for his endeavo9urs of li8ft out etc.

 

[Kelpie]

I have to say I am very tempted to go for something a little smaller in the 22 -23 feet range. Out of interest, which of the below boats would people trust the most if they were caught out in bad conditions? I am guessing the Hurley 22 and the Westerly Pageant, but I would be interested to hear other peoples views.

Snapdragon 23
Anderson 22
Westerly Pageant 23
Westerly nomad 22
Hurley 22
Elizabethan 23
Seamaster 23

None of these are really trailer sailers, as in something that you dry sail and don't leave afloat for the season.

If you're only launching/recovering in spring and autumn you could probably go a bit bigger, depending on the equipment and facilities you have. But it will be much easier and less stressful at this size.

Btw you could consider a Leisure 23 as well, pretty similar to a Pageant.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I have to say I am very tempted to go for something a little smaller in the 22 -23 feet range. Out of interest, which of the below boats would people trust the most if they were caught out in bad conditions? I am guessing the Hurley 22 and the Westerly Pageant, but I would be interested to hear other peoples views.

Snapdragon 23
Anderson 22
Westerly Pageant 23
Westerly nomad 22
Hurley 22
Elizabethan 23
Seamaster 23

Anderson 22 need you ask and in any case it can outrun any storm or hurricane

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Thanks for your opinion. I suppose my only surprise is how low you ranked the Hurley 22, considering that it has sailed oceans. I thought this may say something about its seaworthiness.

I note in your ranking you have drawn on accommodation etc, but leaving everything aside apart from seaworthiness, would your rankings change? If you found yourself in very bad conditions, what would you choose?

Coconuts and drift wood have traversed oceans.