What boat for my circumstances?

[tommy2]

In a previous thread I asked about launching an Albin Vega with a trailer / tractor, where the conclusion was that it would be impracticable for more than a few times a year. In light of this, I am exploring other options for boats. The problem is I live in the far North of Scotland and need something quite capable. I also want something I can grow into and do longer trips / sleep for multiple days overnight. I have spent the last year learning how to sail a dinghy and am booked onto the day skipper course next month. I then plan to do the coastal skipper course. I would mainly be using the boat around the Pentland Firth and would like to sail to Orkney and other Scottish Islands for overnight trips of a few days. I live about a mile away from a harbour and am planning to buy an agricultural tractor for my small farm, which I could also use to launch the boat with. Budget would ideally be under 10 thousand pounds. I could spend more at push, but I would rather spend as little as possible. What would people suggest given my circumstance?

 

[Poignard]

The answer to all "what boat should I buy" questions is:

a Twister.

 

[dunedin]

Firstly, what is your budget? That is critical.
Secondly, did you think about the suggestion from other locals to consider keeping a boat afloat in one of the local harbours? (Taking home only at end of season)
Worth looking around the local harbours to see what sort of boats others sail in these waters. I haven’t been past for a few years, but suspect quite a variety, but many would be traditional British built bilge keelers if using shallow harbours and for low cost wintering.
Hunter Horizon would be on my list as a good practical sailing boat with decent interior for size.
But need view of budget.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

The boat is the easy bit. Where are you going to keep it is the difficult question as you have discovered on the other thread. It's just not practical to "day sail" i.e. launch it every time you want to sail unless you can keep it on the hard at the harbour. Keeping it in the water somewhere is the most practical solution so I would be looking at those options first. Then buy a Twister!

 

[Fr J Hackett]

There are a number of boats like and of a similar age to the Vega that would suit your purpose depending on budget but your idea of launching as and when with a tractor seems / is the problem or restraint. As has been suggested find somewhere that you can keep one on a mooring launch and drag it out on a heavy duty trailer at the start and end of the season. A set of legs or even a submersing cradle would enable you to buy a boat with a decent keel rather than bilge keels if a drying mooring is all you can find.
Vancouver 27, Twister, Albin Vega some older Westerlies or Moodys are all possibilities don't get fixated on any one or option think about what is possible.

 

[boomerangben]

There are perfectly capable drop keel boats in the 20 - 25 foot range which would satisfy the convenience of launching close to home. Bilge keelers have been suggested but keeping one afloat would depend on shelter available.

The bottom line is that the Pentland Firth is one of the most challenging stretches of water in Britain and possibly the world - my Grandfather who served on Atlantic Convoy Escorts in the war said it was the worst piece of water he experienced. But that is not to say you can’t enjoy it, armed with a good weather forecast, tide times and atlas along with a large dose of local advice. You could safely use any reasonably seaworthy boat providing you respect its and your own ability. The more seaworthy, the more days you could use it.

I would suggest you make sure you have an inboard engine that is powerful and reliable as a key safety factor and a boat that will be as comfortable as possible in steep waves.

 

[garymalmgren]

Hi Tommy.
You can choose a boat, OK I want an "A".
Then go looking for one and find there aren't any.
Or you can see what is around for sale and choose from them.
A question back to you.
What boats are available around where you are?

That simplifies things.

Gary

 

[Fr J Hackett]

There are perfectly capable drop keel boats in the 20 - 25 foot range which would satisfy the convenience of launching close to home. Bilge keelers have been suggested but keeping one afloat would depend on shelter available.

The bottom line is that the Pentland Firth is possibly one of the most challenging stretches of water in Britain and possibly the world - my Grandfather who served on Atlantic Convoy Escorts in the war said it was the worst piece of water he experienced. But that is not to say you can’t enjoy it, armed with a good weather forecast, tide times and atlas along with a large dose of local advice. You could safely use any reasonably seaworthy boat providing you respect its and your own ability. The more seaworthy, the more days you could use it.

I would suggest you make sure you have an inboard engine that is powerful and reliable as a key safety factor and a boat that will be as comfortable as possible in steep waves.

I have only sailed in or to be more precise across the Pentland Firth twice in a well found longish keel yacht twice and it was nothing exceptional but I chose my conditions carefully. I would suggest that it gets its reputation from vessels both power, sail large and small transiting in contrary stone / very strong wind and tide situations when it can be as testimony and pictures show, fearsome. So whilst it may well be limiting and there are not so many places of refuge it is not with a degree of foresight and planning a place to be avoided.

 

[Refueler]

Pentland Firth .... mmmmm that can be a tricky bit of water !

Anyway .... my advise is to get online with the sites such as Boatshed .... Boats24 ..... Boats For Sale ..... and use filter of your max price .... Bilge Keel ... Lift Keel .... and lets say max 27ft.

Some sites allow filter of Trailer Sailer ....

Asking here will be extreme bias answers ... and TBH - most I would not consider having been a Trailer Sailer owner in past.

I strongly suggest to stay away from fixed fin keel ... long keel boats ......... the trailers are usually specific and the water depth needed is deeper than you really want to be playing around in .............

I had Alacrity 19 bilge keeler ... good boat ... more like a large dinghy with a roof on !!

Good strong boat - but not really for rough waters .... but will get you home.

Then I changed to Snapdragon 23 triple keel .... this was a boat that I was in storms and bad weather ... she proved to be well capable .. trailer was straight bilge keel with centre U channel ... towed by Pickup ... I bought a Land Rover S3 in the end ..



Both those boats had deck stepped masts .. myself and young son or my Wife - we could lower / raise mast on those.

Mt present main boat is a 25ft Motor Sailer with bilge keels .... runs out just under 4 ton .. so needs serious tow vehicle. I basically get a trucking pal of mine to do it his truck has a 30t Hiab on it.

then plonked down in my front garden on purpose made hard standing ...

What I am trying to convey is that its great to have a larger boat with its cabin etc. But the lift in / out ... as well as storage becomes more serious matter. With the Snapdragon 23 ... I bought an old 1953 Land Rover to tow it on its trailer ... it used to stand outside my house .... but I always felt I had reached a practical limit.

 

[Wansworth]

There is a place ,Findhorn in Scotlandthat builds Drascome boats

 

[scottie]

Go and speak to the locals and you are likely to get some idea of solutions to the problems and may actually avoid re inventing the wheel you may well find out that the locals may have local knowledge lacking to the far flung helpful forum experts
start off with a blank sheet and try and keep it that way

 

[Wansworth]

A nice ex fishing boat with a Gardinerengine ……and steadying sails

 

[tommy2]

Firstly, what is your budget? That is critical.

I am flexible, but I was thinking around ten thousand pounds or less. I could afford more, but I would rather spend less money. So if there was something substantially less price wise, I would be very happy.

 

[jamie N]

I've a Folkboat, which isn't a dissimilar concept to the Vega. As others have said, where you are, a reliable motor is critical to being able to relax, as I'm sure you realise.
I'm Inverness based and have sailed up & down the Pentland a number of times, usually overnighting in Rispond Bay. Many boats are really good for what you envisage, simply hopping over to Orkney, then perhaps up to Fair Isle and onto Shetland is really quite a simple jaunt, once (of course) you've got a reliable boat with everything sorted. I believe that Caley Marine in Inverness have a few boats that might interest you up for grabs now.
Are you at the Eastern or Western end of the North coast?

 

[Refueler]

I am flexible, but I was thinking around ten thousand pounds or less. I could afford more, but I would rather spend less money. So if there was something substantially less price wise, I would be very happy.

10K is actually more than enough to get a reasonable boat .... as long as you accept that its not new and maybe in need of a little TLC.

No doubt someone is now going to start posting about rigging more than 10yrs old .... Engine is xxx and yyy .... etc. Don't let nay sayers put you off.

Believe me - there are boats out there for well under 10K that are good to go ......

Lets see ...... you say you will get a tractor. That means you can tow a reasonable weight. If you can push yourself to a reasonable trailer ..... assuming the tractor is not part of the 10K .....
What about a nice Westerly Pageant ? 23ft ... standing headroom .... with a trailer - tractor will have no problem. Max draft just under 3ft so plus trailer .... looking about 4.5 - 5ft water on slip as minimum. Bilge keel so no storage problems. Mast is deck stepped and two people can raise / lower .... with A frame as I have - a one man job.

Jaguar 22 Lift Keel .... but limited headroom

Snapdragons .... from 19 to 27ft ... lift and Bilge keel

Mirage ....

Loads of boats under 10K can do what you want

 

[srm]

I know your waters having lived (and kept boats) in Shetland for 14 years and Orkney for just over 20 years. They deserve the greatest respect and a seaworthy / seakindly well balanced boat that can look after you in rough water if you get your timing wrong.

My preference is a pre-IOR design with longish keel and keel hung rudder. As well as providing a nice balanced hull the keel hung rudder also protects the prop from floating fishing gear/pot buoy lines. The Twister is a good example along with the Folkboat variants like the Contessa 26 but there are a number of other designs that do not have as enthusiastic a following and will be within your budget. I sailed a Trintella 29 for a number of years in Shetland and Orkney waters as well as west Norway. My other boats had the same hull form but were bigger.

Can you keep the boat afloat in Scrabster? I have only been there with the Orkney ferry but remember seeing yachts there at various times.

I will also suggest that a copy of the relevant Admiralty tidal stream atlas NP 209 is essential for your plans.

 

[Supertramp]

Much depends on the harbour you have in mind. As others have said, the Pentland Firth can be fearsome and in any case the tides need careful planning. Traversing the firth needs careful planning due to cross tides and eddie's. Even in calm weather tackling 8 knot tides with a maximum speed of 6 knots needs thinking through. The enclosed Scapa Flow however is much more gentle and an interesting place for a shoal draft yacht. Further North in Orkney is beautiful.

Not sure I understand the tractor bit, some harbours may allow wintering on land in car parks or similar which is much less hassle and allows for a larger boat. Talk to local boat owners.

All that said, and given your budget, a good engine with enough horsepower to get through adverse weather would be important to me, plus as much displacement as I could afford. Twister style would work well. We used to do it in a Westerly Centaur which was surprisingly competent. Get a spray hood.....

 

[dunedin]

I've a Folkboat, which isn't a dissimilar concept to the Vega. As others have said, where you are, a reliable motor is critical to being able to relax, as I'm sure you realise.
I'm Inverness based and have sailed up & down the Pentland a number of times, usually overnighting in Rispond Bay. Many boats are really good for what you envisage, simply hopping over to Orkney, then perhaps up to Fair Isle and onto Shetland is really quite a simple jaunt, once (of course) you've got a reliable boat with everything sorted. I believe that Caley Marine in Inverness have a few boats that might interest you up for grabs now.
Are you at the Eastern or Western end of the North coast?

The Caley Marine link is a good one - indeed the first photo of the Dufour 2800 for sale in Lossiemouth is a good one - as looking at the rest of the boats in the background gives a fair view of the diversity of boats the locals keep in that area.

 

[Sandy]

Have you thought about a Mirage 28?

Might ve worth looking at this Instagram account, https://www.instagram.com/sailing_glenaffric/ as Roy is not far from you.

 

[srm]

Even in calm weather tackling 8 knot tides with a maximum speed of 6 knots needs thinking through.

Every summer in Orkney I would see visiting boats that had found that magic spot where speed through the water is equal and opposite to tidal stream and ground speed was near enough zero for an hour or two.