UK cruising/circumnavigation planning - big questions so far

[Wansworth]

Of course its possible.

It's just not for everyone.

Boats of Oak,menof Iron……..Macmullen!

 

[capnsensible]

Boats of Oak,menof Iron……..Macmullen!

Hearts of Oak......RN theme tune!

 

[Daydream believer]

I can't think of a reason. It's not my cup of tea but it's entirely doable for committed sailors who don't feel the cold spending a high proportion of time on the water.

Is it colder on the east coast than the west then?

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Is it colder on the east coast than the west then?

Yes. There's quite a strong west to east temperature gradient; the west benefits from the North Atlantic Drift, and remains warm enough to grow palm trees at least as far north as Ullapool, while the east coast gets colder air from the continent, especially in winter.

 

[Daydream believer]

Yes. There's quite a strong west to east temperature gradient; the west benefits from the North Atlantic Drift, and remains warm enough to grow palm trees at least as far north as Ullapool, while the east coast gets colder air from the continent, especially in winter.

The OP was considering Inverness & south being his part of the East coast. I would suggest that as he moved south he would find the south east a little warmer than the west coast. . I lived in Berwick upon Tweed as a child & again in the 90s my distant memories do not support your assertions. But if the figures prove otherwise then I must accept it.
I did find thepoint below, in google, when I queried temperature gradient between west & east coast Uk..However, I admit that I did not dig deeper. It does seem to contradict itself though. I just watch BBC weather to see where the snow has fallen & it is not near me in the SE
.
Firstly, through the specific heat capacity of ocean; the Atlantic acts like a heat resevoir in the winter. As land surfaces cool down quickly the Atlantic retains its heat influencing a milder temperature keeping the west coast temperature a couple of degrees colder than the east.

 

[NormanS]

The OP was considering Inverness & south being his part of the East coast. I would suggest that as he moved south he would find the south east a little warmer than the west coast. . I lived in Berwick upon Tweed as a child & again in the 90s my distant memories do not support your assertions. But if the figures prove otherwise then I must accept it.
I did find thepoint belo, in google, when I queried temperature gradient between west & east coast Uk..However, I admit that I did not dig deeper. It does seem to contradict itself though. I just watch BBC weather to see where the snow has fallen & it is not near me in the SE
.
Firstly, through the specific heat capacity of ocean; the Atlantic acts like a heat resevoir in the winter. As land surfaces cool down quickly the Atlantic retains its heat influencing a milder temperature keeping the west coast temperature a couple of degrees colder than the east.

That seems like a classic non sequitur.

 

[Daydream believer]

That seems like a classic non sequitur.

The point made by Antartic Pilot was that the west coast was warmer than the east coast of the UK. There was no animosity in his post & none in mine. But I just made the point that I was not entirely in agreement & gave reasons. Why suggest it does not follow? Or was you trying to show that you did latin at school- as I did.

 

[mjcoon]

That seems like a classic non sequitur.

Probably written by a journalist without even proof-reading, compared with a scientific paper that has been peer reviewed...

 

[NormanS]

The point made by Antartic Pilot was that the west coast was warmer than the east coast of the UK. There was no animosity in his post & none in mine. But I just made the point that I was not entirely in agreement & gave reasons. Why suggest it does not follow? Or was you trying to show that you did latin at school- as I did.

The "report" says that the warmer water in the Atlantic retains its heat influencing a milder temperature, and somehow concludes that this milder influence keeps the temperature 2° colder. Maybe you would like to try to explain this strange anomaly?

 

[steveeasy]

Why

Of course its possible.

It's just not for everyone.

ok It is possible then, but not everyone. I think the op wanted to know if other members thought going thru the Caladonian Canal was feasible and an opinion if it was worth doing the East coast.

My view was to spend a couple of weeks along south west coast. A quick trip up to Scotland. A week or so cruising then head back and go with the flow.

Steveeasy

 

[steveeasy]

I can't think of a reason. It's not my cup of tea but it's entirely doable for committed sailors who don't feel the cold spending a high proportion of time on the water.

I don't want to run a marathon, but other people do, marathons *are* possible.

I didn't really want to say it but how many of us saying we don't fancy it are under 25? I'm guessing zero. That's a factor.

Having said that, I suspect the OP is closer in sailing ambition to me than Bill Tillman so I suspect he won't go round amd will have a superb cruise nearer to home.

I can't think of a reason. It's not my cup of tea but it's entirely doable for committed sailors who don't feel the cold spending a high proportion of time on the water.

I don't want to run a marathon, but other people do, marathons *are* possible.

I didn't really want to say it but how many of us saying we don't fancy it are under 25? I'm guessing zero. That's a factor.

Having said that, I suspect the OP is closer in sailing ambition to me than Bill Tillman so I suspect he won't go round amd will have a superb cruise nearer to home.

I don’t know what you are trying to say. If I guess right , are you thinking those under 25 would be more keen?. If so I think your very wrong.
Id Hazard a guess most of those saying they would prefer not too base their decision on experiance and the fact they know it’s not the best time to do it. They also have probably done it anyway.
Steveeasy

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Hi All,

My partner and I have a charter yacht (31ft, fixed 1.6m draught) from mid-August this year to the Start of November, out of Portsmouth. Its insurance covers it up to 20nm off the coast of the UK and it will just be the two of us crewing.

With a UK scale chart and almanac in hand I'm starting to work out how far we can realistically get in this time and whether a circumnavigation (via the Caledonian Canal) is realistic at all. Given that this is a charter, we do have to be back to Portsmouth on time, so in all cases we'll be carefully watching our timing and planning the remaining (or backwards!) passage to make sure we don't get caught out. We see this as more of a cruising holiday than an all out attempt to get around the country, so generally don't intend to be doing long overnight passages with single-handed watches.

Looking around online, it seems most typical for people to go around anti-clockwise, but one of my major concerns is that if our progress is slow and we are forced to return down the east coast, we will have missed out on everything on the west coast. My gut instinct is that if we are to stay stuck on one side of Great Britain, it should be the West.

Firstly, I'd love any thoughts on what I've noted so far from those with experience of a circumnavigation (or part thereof).

In starting to plan the clockwise circumnavigation (very roughly), I have come up against the following:

a) Depending on prevailing winds, the passage around Land's End from a starting point of Penzance (close to the tidal gate to help get the timing right) might end up being a continuous passage all the way to Lundy (100nm or so!), because our fixed 1.6m draught will not allow us to make use of drying ports on the North Cornwall coast and the few and far between anchorages may not be sheltered. Relying on Padstow also appears to be quite a risk as the entry and exit over the bar is very dependent on conditions. Would you just wait until the right weather window for being able to anchor at St. Ives before making the rounding?

b) Without overnight passages, my estimates make the journey from Portsmouth to Lundy approximately 12 days if we sail every day (which is weather dependent). That's with a rough plan of overnights at: Lymington, Portland, Bridport, Torquay, Salcombe, Plymouth, Fowey, Falmouth, ?, Penzance, ?, Lundy. Extrapolating this progress very roughly (270nm bee line along coast over 12 days), I make it about a month and a half to get up to the Firth of Lorne, which doesn't leave us enough time to get up the canal and back down the east coast (based on the same rate). On that basis I'd also be worried about getting all the way up to the Caledonian Canal and back down the west in time, given that we could get caught out with tides and weather trying to round Land's End again and Portland Bill to get back to Portsmouth on time. What are people's thoughts on the rate of progress estimation?

I haven't yet started looking at the anti-clockwise options and rate of progress, but on the assumption that we can't make it up to the Caledonian Canal, is there any argument for being on the east coast?

That's all for now - thanks in advance!

To start with one can anchor of stepper point or pentire point of padstow and big trawlers and dredgers get just oatside padstow and the doom bar is merely a brown bar or dark bar not a deadly one in normal weather.

In a slow yacht in mostly familiar waters we did plymouth to the inner hebrides and man and back (22 islands) in 3 months.

Going round landsend is simple - arrive at low tide and rise up the other side. Stop padstow, go milford then arklow then up coast of ireland s and north and continue to mid point timewise. If not halfway round, turn back

Some folks tale 6 monts of liesure but you only have 10 week, which allowing for storm bound days in harbour, is over tight for complete circumnavigation Imho

 

[Daydream believer]

The "report" says that the warmer water in the Atlantic retains its heat influencing a milder temperature, and somehow concludes that this milder influence keeps the temperature 2° colder. Maybe you would like to try to explain this strange anomaly?

Milder winters, but much cooler summers, lots more rain. so perhaps the mean average is effectively lower. Just a thought.

 

[ylop]

Probably overwelmed saying don’t do it. He really wanted to know if it was feasible to do the East coast and canal which it’s not.
Nothing wrong with dreaming. We all do it or we’d not go anywhere.
Steveeasy

It’s certainly feasible. Whether it’s fun, or you can manage to spend the time you want in the places you want is much harder to say and will depend on the weather. capn sensibles’ 1600 NM seems about right - he’s got 10 weeks. Let’s plan for a week of trouble somewhere along the way, with no sailing at all. Let’s assume that the weather, distractions ashore or other factors mean he only actually moves 4 days a week - that’s <45 NM per day on average. Even if the weather is mediocre on those days - you are looking at day trips not massive epics. Is it the perfect time to do it? Probably not. Is it the best way to spend 10 weeks on charter? A totally different question. The only real valid “oh that could be a snag” point raised here was the winter opening plans for the Caledonian canal. I haven’t seen a plan announced this year yet but my memory is that they are usually open longer than Crinan at least. There is always the risk of arriving and having a bridge issue or other problem that stops you - but if people let that stop them nobody would ever use it - and yet there’s plenty who do.

 

[mjcoon]

Milder winters, but much cooler summers, lots more rain. so perhaps the mean average is effectively lower. Just a thought.

I thought the point was that although a mass of water effectively does some of the averaging for you, this particular mass of water is moving north and thus giving us an average that belongs to a lower latitude.

 

[dunedin]

……

In a slow yacht in mostly familiar waters we did plymouth to the inner hebrides and man and back (22 islands) in 3 months.

….

Yes but which 3 months? That is the key issue here.
May, June, July - ideal.
Mid August to early November very different- it can be lovely, but can also get 2 weeks or more of strong winds from the SW preventing any comfortable return.
I keep a boat in sailing commission all year round - but some months get very few sailing days at all, others lots.

 

[Mark-1]

I keep a boat in sailing commission all year round - but some months get very few sailing days at all, others lots.

Of course, if you have 365 days access to a boat you typically pick and choose the best days, whereas if you charter you typically go out in whatever weather there happens to be at the time you have the boat.

If the OP wants a challenge and 2 months of committed sailing then going round Britain is feasable at the proposed time of year. If he wants the sort of sailing I'd prefer it's probably not for him. Only he knows.

 

[Doodles_McStrife]

Hi Again all, thanks very much for all the replies! I think my main takeaway points are:

- We don't have enough time to get around with a port hopping approach limited to 20nm offshore. This was what I expected from my initial calculations. Good to verify.

- We might be able to spend the time venturing around the east and west 'corners' and up the coast and each side a little way and staying well within reach of the south coast to get back when the weather permits aspects like re-rounding Land's End.

- We should definitely check if there's any scope to scrap the 20nm limit (but this may be unlikely because it's probably driven by vessel coding, so may not be as easy as an increased insurance premium)

 

[Mark-1]

Hi Again all, thanks very much for all the replies! I think my main takeaway points are:

- We don't have enough time to get around with a port hopping approach limited to 20nm offshore. This was what I expected from my initial calculations. Good to verify.

- We might be able to spend the time venturing around the east and west 'corners' and up the coast and each side a little way and staying well within reach of the south coast to get back when the weather permits aspects like re-rounding Land's End.

- We should definitely check if there's any scope to scrap the 20nm limit (but this may be unlikely because it's probably driven by vessel coding, so may not be as easy as an increased insurance premium)

Have a great two months, I'm envious!

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Hi Again all, thanks very much for all the replies! I think my main takeaway points are:

- We don't have enough time to get around with a port hopping approach limited to 20nm offshore. This was what I expected from my initial calculations. Good to verify.

- We might be able to spend the time venturing around the east and west 'corners' and up the coast and each side a little way and staying well within reach of the south coast to get back when the weather permits aspects like re-rounding Land's End.

- We should definitely check if there's any scope to scrap the 20nm limit (but this may be unlikely because it's probably driven by vessel coding, so may not be as easy as an increased insurance premium)

The 20nm stuffs you in the irish sea or west wales route and even makes padstow to milforld convoluted. Good luck with seeing if that can be amended.

However a trip as far as Padstow covers some of the best sailing south of the scottish western isles - so do what you can in such manner as still fun