UK cruising/circumnavigation planning - big questions so far

[capnsensible]

This is not the person's own boat and the owner's insurers have placed a restriction that seriously compromises what is possible. Of course it is possible to do it as a challenge, but the OP has already indicated that he wants to port hop.

Did you read the post I was responding to about non stop?

When I had a small charter business in Portsmouth we had no problem with extended charters or insurance. Mebbe times have changed.....

 

[mjcoon]

I wasn't exaggerating, I just said it in confusing way. Day one of the school summer hols you have ~15 hours of daylight. On the last day ~13 hours.

OK, at last I understand!

 

[dunedin]

That is the wrong time of year to do that trip. The best time to be on the west coast of Scotland is now, mid May to mid June. After that it goes downhill & August is often 'orrible. The unwritten rule is to be off the west coast of Scotland by the end of August. Then the equinoctial gales start - wet and windy. Many years ago I tried to get south down the North Channel in October. After 10 days of persistent strong SW winds I gave up in Stranraer & went home. I retrieved the boat in November during a period of autumnal anticyclonic gloom.

Sad but true (written in sunshine i May at 59N).
Can be lucky - or can have 3 solid weeks of SW gales in October.
Would need to be planning on back round Lands End at least a month before end date. Or find out costs of lorry to bring South from the Clyde?

 

[Concerto]

You are running a very high risk of not completing a round Britain in the time available. What would you then have to pay to return the boat to the charter base say from Hartlepool? With good weather it might be possible but you would be sailing most days and not visiting any of the places you stop at. I took 5 months to circumnavigate singklehanded via the top of Shetland and had periods of adverse weather which either meant staying put or sailing in stronger winds of up to force 7 (5 days exceeded this!). There are links in my signature to videos and forum posts of my trip.

My advice would be to sail to the East Coast and explore up to Lowestoft or Wells-next-the-Sea. Then work your way back along the South Coast to the Isles of Scilly. This would let you then remain up wind of the prevailing SW winds to return to Portsmouth.

 

[srm]

I wasn't exaggerating, I just said it in confusing way. Day one of the school summer hols you have ~15 hours of daylight. On the last day ~13 hours.

You must be talking about darkest England. Day one of the school summer hols in the Northern Isles we had ~24 hours of daylight. On the last day ~22 hours as the sun was only a few degrees below the horizon. Winters were of course the opposite with only a few hours of the sun above the horizon.

My advice would be to sail to the East Coast and explore up to Lowestoft or Wells-next-the-Sea. Then work your way back along the South Coast to the Isles of Scilly. This would let you then remain up wind of the prevailing SW winds to return to Portsmouth.

An alternative would be to get insurance for the Irish Sea and Scilly Isles, and cruise the south coast and around Lands End, thus staying to windward for the return trip.

 

[Mark-1]

You must be talking about darkest England. Day one of the school summer hols in the Northern Isles we had ~24 hours of daylight. On the last day ~22 hours as the sun was only a few degrees below the horizon. Winters were of course the opposite with only a few hours of the sun above the horizon.


An alternative would be to get insurance for the Irish Sea and Scilly Isles, and cruise the south coast and around Lands End, thus staying to windward for the return trip.

Maybe the Northern Isles aren't where I think they are or maybe the Summer holiday starts at a different time to us Sassenachs but I'm not totally convinced:

Sunrise and sunset times in Lerwick (Shetland Islands)

I agree that digging into the insurance situation is likely to pay dividends. I'm pretty sure (if insurance is the only issue) that 20 mile limit will evaporate for a small change in the premium.

 

[SaltyC]

I agree with Concerto, if it is a cruise, I would coast hop west, to the Scilly Isles if insurance allows.
Return to Solent can visit different ports.
If time allows you can then go East, up the Thames to London &/or across tge Thames and explore tge East Coast rivers.
In this way an 'easy ' return can be ensured by weather watching in October.

 

[capnsensible]

It could be that a 31 foot yacht is limited by coding?

 

[SaltIre]

I wasn't exaggerating, I just said it in confusing way. Day one of the school summer hols you have ~15 hours of daylight. On the last day ~13 hours.

The school holidays in Scotland finish in August, having started late June. Does this mean more or less daylight in September?

 

[Mark-1]

The school holidays in Scotland finish in August, having started late June. Does this mean more or less daylight in September?

Dunno, but it makes SRM's post correct!

 

[Tranona]

It could be that a 31 foot yacht is limited by coding?

Probably. Category 3&4 are up to 20 miles from safe haven - 4 in daylight only. Insurance restrictions would follow category. Category 2 is 60 miles and probably most common - but most charter boats would be bigger than 31'. Very few 31' boats get CatA under RCD and coding stability requirements are similar.

 

[ylop]

Having said all that, the nicest part of your trip will be the west Coast of Scotland. Why not just charter there and spend the months there?

That would be my inclination… although it can start to get grim in Scotland by autumn the classic cruising grounds would provide sensible options to hide out on most of those days. But I do realise there is something in the human psyche that says going round something is a bigger achievement. Personally I’d either want to do that with some serious time pressure, essentially a race/challenge or to be able to take my time. It would be infuriating to have to rush the best bits so that you could get back in time.

It could be that a 31 foot yacht is limited by coding?

In which case it should technically be 20 miles from a safe haven, not 20 miles for the U.K. coastline.

A ten week charter is not going to be cheap… have you considered buying - even if you sell it again at the end?

 

[srm]

Maybe the Northern Isles aren't where I think they are or maybe the Summer holiday starts at a different time to us Sassenachs but I'm not totally convinced:

Sunrise and sunset times in Lerwick (Shetland Islands)

Look at the civil and nautical twilight times in the Nautical Almanac. When the sun is less than 6 degrees below the horizon, between sunset and end of civil twilight, it is light enough for most people to read a newspaper out of doors. It is only fully dark at the end of Nautical Twilight when the sun is 12 degrees below the horizon. Having lived in Shetland for 14 years I can assure you that it does nor get properly dark for around two months across midsummer. The locals call it the "Simmer Dim". On my first summer in Shetland, on a survey vessel, a group of us were talking on the bridge (anchored to the south of Fetlar) as the sun went down, we were still there not so long afterwards when the sun came up again. The sun sort of skims along just below the horizon.

Moving to Orkney was a bit of a disappointment, only four or five weeks of not getting fully dark across midsummer. It was light enough though to take visitors sightseeing to the stone circles across the middle of the night.

Between the equinoxes and northern summer solstice the further north you are on any given day the longer the period of daylight and twilight. Conversely the periods of daylight and twilight are shorter during the winter. Again check the Nautical Almanac.

 

[Mark-1]

Probably. Category 3&4 are up to 20 miles from safe haven - 4 in daylight only. Insurance restrictions would follow category. Category 2 is 60 miles and probably most common - but most charter boats would be bigger than 31'. Very few 31' boats get CatA under RCD and coding stability requirements are similar.

...and the coding specifically says "safe haven" which is more restrictive than just 20 miles off shore.

 

[Mark-1]

Look at the civil and nautical twilight times in the Nautical Almanac. When the sun is less than 6 degrees below the horizon, between sunset and end of civil twilight, it is light enough for most people to read a newspaper out of doors. It is only fully dark at the end of Nautical Twilight when the sun is 12 degrees below the horizon. Having lived in Shetland for 14 years I can assure you that it does nor get properly dark for around two months across midsummer. The locals call it the "Simmer Dim". On my first summer in Shetland, on a survey vessel, a group of us were talking on the bridge (anchored to the south of Fetlar) as the sun went down, we were still there not so long afterwards when the sun came up again. The sun sort of skims along just below the horizon.

Someone else has already pointed out that school hols start in midsummer in Scotland. So, yeah, you're spot on, or as near as makes no difference.

 

[Mark-1]

A ten week charter is not going to be cheap… have you considered buying - even if you sell it again at the end?

I think a ten week charter that time of year is going to be highly negotiable and you get all the other advantages of chartering. Plus you avoid the temptation to keep it long term. (I bought my little boat with 3 months left on its marina berth on the basis that I could scrap it or give it away when the marina berth ran out and 9 years later it's still a millstone around my neck joy to own.)

You can't put a price on putting 5 years worth of wear and tear on a boat in two months and then handing it back to someone else to sort out.

 

[ylop]

I think a ten week charter that time of year is going to be highly negotiable and you get all the other advantages of chartering.

Some of those advantages are going to be significantly diluted or lost completely though on such a long trip so far from base. You can't just pop back to base for the engineer to take take a look etc. If your wind instrument breaks on week 3 who's going to fix them? Does that mean you lose the ability to "sail to wind" on the autopilot? If there's a bunch of niggles when you pick it up - on a week long cruise you maybe just ignore them; if you were setting off round britain you'd definitely fix them. Perhaps the charter co can fix them if you don't go too far in the first week...

Its not like hiring a car from a big chain where if you have a problem them (a) have UK wide recovery services and (b) have another branch not "that" far away who can get you a replacement.

You can't put a price on putting 5 years worth of wear and tear on a boat in two months and then handing it back to someone else to sort out.

The charter co is probably not stupid though and realises that you are going to put a lot more wear and tear on some things that a typical pair of couples chartering to hop from pub to pub (although you might wreck it less than some charterers), and they'll know there is a non-zero risk that you call them and say "engine is broken - boat was towed to Largs marina - come and get it". Who's liable for that would be worth checking. Does starting mid-late season mean you are more likely get a boat with some latent fault thats on the "fix at tend of season" list?

 

[Tranona]

Hopefully the OP will come back and explain a bit more about the charter - type of boat for example and any other conditions apart from the coding/insurance constraint.

 

[capnsensible]

I do wonder why some people bother to go sailing at all if everything is soo difficult.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Seems unlikely heading in to shortened days and worsening weather and unlikely the charter company would agree to it.

Concerto went round last year and he's a motivated guy in a well found boat and I think it took him longer than 10 weeks in peak season.

If it was your own boat you've always the option to leave it somewhere for the winter and carry on next spring.

Unless you already know the south coast really well there is plenty of fun to be had exploring the Scillies and Cornwall.

About half of it (Clyde to Essex via the Caledonian Canal) took me 3 weeks in April a few years ago. But we were happy to do legs of over 100 miles, and at one point were at least 50nm offshore. Worth remembering that there are few if any useful havens between Whitby and Lowestoft on the East Coast - you can go into Grimsby or Hull, but it's a long way off track. But that was a relocation trip, and we motored whenever the wind didn't serve - which was a lot of the time!