UK cruising/circumnavigation planning - big questions so far

[Mark-1]

It is probably category 3 coded: ie up to 20 miles from a "safe haven". Even if you include Padstow as that as a stop, from there to Milford Haven is way over 40 miles. IMHO (and I have sailed this coast several times) his is a bad plan, even if the boat got recoded to Cat 3 - 60 miles - but that might involve structural alterations or even be impossible for a 31 ft boat.

Firstly it isn't a plan. The OP is merely asking if it feasible.

Secondly he's told us the 20 mile off shore limit is insurance based. It seems entirely plausible that it's really about coding but we don't know that.

Is code 3 really difficult to achieve? I'd have thought X Channel would be a typical bread and butter trip for any of the hundreds of charter boats in the Solent area including this one.

 

[Daydream believer]

That's a bit harsh, it's only been 24 hours or so and further engagement from the OP is a nice to have, not an obligation.

Harsh or not, let's see if we have a happy new forumite or not. I hope we have-- with a story of how he got on. But i will not hold my breath.

 

[lustyd]

Even if you include Padstow as that as a stop, from there to Milford Haven is way over 40 miles

If you first go to Hartland point then cross to Saint Govens Head you're never more than 18.5NM from the UK coast, less if you include Lundy (and I certainly do!).

Navigation isn't drawing lines from one place to another, it's the act of solving problems to get from one place to another.

 

[Daydream believer]

Who is going to know, once you get out of the harbour?
Oiy, Come in No6 your range is up

 

[SaltyC]

Many charter vessels now have class B AIS and the company monitor carefully.
One question is would the charter boat have the necessary chart coverage on board, paper and/or electronic and pilot books?
Would the OP have to provide their own?
I have previously skippered a chartered boat from Plymouth to the Solent for Sailing Vision Week only to find on departure the only paper chart pack was the West Country!

 

[capnsensible]

...and the fact that many of us don't fancy it doesn't mean the OP won't. For all we know the OP might thrive on a trip like this at this time of year.

It's certainly not for me, though. And I'd be concerned about getting 400 miles from home in great weather with adequate daylight and then finding I've got to claw my way back in poor weather in the dark.

Exactly. People are posting about their own worries. It's an interesting passage of something like 15 or 16 hundred miles after a bit of zigging. Two up, even if you paused for weather now and then, its mebbe a 7 weeker. Or 12 days non stop!

Lots of flapping and excuses and some opinionated reluctance. It's clearly not for most who post on here so why make so many difficulties up from people who are never going to do it? The OP has chartered the boat and wants some practical advice. I just don't get the doom mongers. If it scares you, simply don't do it! Let others enjoy an adventure in peace.

I had charter yachts right at the birth of the code of practice. Our Moody 31 was Cat 2. I've coded loadsa yachts since. Longer charters were great and getting things fixed if necessary was easily arranged by having a good relationship with the customer, setting out each others terms and agreeing how it will all work prior to departure.

Sailing as a sport is supposed to be a bit of fun, a bit of a challenge, a bit of adventure. Don't like it? Just don't go!!!!

 

[Mark-1]

Many charter vessels now have class B AIS and the company monitor carefully.

The Charter company don't need to police the cruising limits set by the coding, I can't see how they have any responsibility for that, that's on the customer. They just need to state in the contract the cruising limits.

As for insurance, presumably the Charter Firm have insurance to cover them for any bat poo mental thing the charterer does including going outside the coding area of the boat. Failing to be insured for that would leave the charter firm with a massive liability and no certainty they'd be able to affordably recover it from the charterer.

So there's probably no impediment whatsoever to the charterer doing whatever he wants - he just won't be able to blame the charter firm if the boat falls apart 40 miles offshore or demand a repair in St Malo.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

It's quite a while since I last chartered a boat - about 1988 - but in those days, most charter companies imposed very specific limits on the area you could sail in. I chartered on the West Coast of Scotland, and I recall being shown charts with cruising limits clearly marked. I think that the companies were amenable to the limits being expanded, but only by agreement and not greatly.

 

[Mark-1]

It's quite a while since I last chartered a boat - about 1988 - but in those days, most charter companies imposed very specific limits on the area you could sail in. I chartered on the West Coast of Scotland, and I recall being shown charts with cruising limits clearly marked. I think that the companies were amenable to the limits being expanded, but only by agreement and not greatly.

That's my experience, but I'm not sure anything in particular happens if you go outside those cruising limits. Well, not until you got far enough that you looked like you couldn't get back or were stealing the boat. Clearly you're not going to get any service/support.

My point was that a Charter Firm has no reason to physically police coding limits.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

That's my experience, but I'm not sure anything in particular happens if you go outside those cruising limits. Well, not until you got far enough that you looked like you couldn't get back or were stealing the boat. Clearly you're not going to get any service/support.

My point was that a Charter Firm has no reason to physically police coding limits.

I got the impression the insurance was void if you went outside the limits. So if something went pear-shaped, you could end up being liable for the value of the boat.

 

[srm]

For us southern sailors, being stuck in the Sound of Mull/Loch Linnhe for a week would be like winning the lottery.

I was thinking more of the OP's charter clock ticking. Its a long way back to Portsmouth.

 

[Mark-1]

I got the impression the insurance was void if you went outside the limits. So if something went pear-shaped, you could end up being liable for the value of the boat.

That can't be true though. You'd be clinically insane to choose insurance for your charter business that didn't pay out if your charter customer broke his contract. Apart from anything else the boat might get stolen and taken outside the agreed cruising area. (I might be wrong, just seems implausible to me.)

 

[srm]

I got the impression the insurance was void if you went outside the limits. So if something went pear-shaped, you could end up being liable for the value of the boat.

Depends on the terminology. If something is "warranted" then breaking that term invalidates the whole policy. In the days before email I asked for an extension for a cruise to Norway. The local agent agreed it verbally, I paid the extra premium and off we went. On return the insurance document was waiting for me that warranted three people on board for the passages. I informed the insurer that we had sailed with only two and asked for a refund of the extra premium as we were in effect uninsured for that cruise. The insurers agreed and refunded the extra premium.

 

[capnsensible]

For any potential insurance problem with our charter customers, I simply picked up the phone and rang our broker. Its that easy.

 

[steveeasy]

Because he seems to have followed the trend of all new OP's. Asks one dreamy question. We all dive in & the Op f.s off never to be seen again. Have you noted any comment since #1?

Probably overwelmed saying don’t do it. He really wanted to know if it was feasible to do the East coast and canal which it’s not.
Nothing wrong with dreaming. We all do it or we’d not go anywhere.
Steveeasy

 

[Daydream believer]

He really wanted to know if it was feasible to do the East coast and canal which it’s not.
Steveeasy

Why not?

 

[Mark-1]

Why not?

I can't think of a reason. It's not my cup of tea but it's entirely doable for committed sailors who don't feel the cold spending a high proportion of time on the water.

I don't want to run a marathon, but other people do, marathons *are* possible.

I didn't really want to say it but how many of us saying we don't fancy it are under 25? I'm guessing zero. That's a factor.

Having said that, I suspect the OP is closer in sailing ambition to me than Bill Tillman so I suspect he won't go round amd will have a superb cruise nearer to home.

 

[Doodles_McStrife]

Because he seems to have followed the trend of all new OP's. Asks one dreamy question. We all dive in & the Op f.s off never to be seen again. Have you noted any comment since #1?

I'm still here! Massively grateful for the helpful responses and quite inundated but will come back with a proper reply as soon as I have a spare minute. Apologies to all!

 

[Wansworth]

I'm still here! Massively grateful for the helpful responses and quite inundated but will come back with a proper reply as soon as I have a spare minute. Apologies to

I'm still here! Massively grateful for the helpful responses and quite inundated but will come back with a proper reply as soon as I have a spare minute. Apologies to all!

read “ Coasting” by Jonathan Raban to give historical background to pastvoyagers of British waters

 

[capnsensible]

Probably overwelmed saying don’t do it. He really wanted to know if it was feasible to do the East coast and canal which it’s not.
Nothing wrong with dreaming. We all do it or we’d not go anywhere.
Steveeasy

Of course its possible.

It's just not for everyone.