The Forum Burgee.

[epervier]

They are supportive of another flag, not any specific design. Ultimately it's me who is voting with my wallet, I will be paying to produce the flag. No one else is being asked to contribute. If they don't sell I lose out, no one else on here does.

To be fair if the mouse flag doesn't sell it will also cost me money ! For all the moaning and griping I've only had one person offer to help out financially and with their time. We are working together to get them made and distributed.


Henry

OK, fully understand, I've found myself in a hole that's named "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" I'll stop digging, best of luck with your new burgee, I'm happy with the one I have.

 

[epervier]

I don't think it really matters, to be honest. If Henry offers a decent Tipsy Mouse for less than Ensign Flags will do, that's great. If he also offers the Globular Henryflag and people buy it, then apparently there was demand for it after all, but those of us who prefer the mouse can ignore it. If he offers the Globular Henryflag and nobody buys it, then no harm done and the mouse faction can say "I told you so". If his version of the Tipsy Mouse turns out to be inferior (though I have no reason to suppose it will be) then Ensign Flags will still be there.

I don't feel like anything's under threat here.

Pete

I believe you're correct Pete, I wasn't suggesting anything is being threatened, call me old fashioned, but, I just thought it would have been nice to have the backing of the people who use these forums.

 

[Phill]

Is Henry a teenager? My kids won't listen either! :encouragement:

 

[henryf]

Is Henry a teenager? My kids won't listen either! :encouragement:

No, early thirties

Henry

 

[SpottyDog5]

1930's

 

[andy59]

1930's

FWIW I will be buying two new tipsy mice and also , one of the new burgees on the basis that if its flying on the boat entering Portsmouth I will gain entry to the special club and if it doesn't sell well enough to have a second run it will become a collectors item and I will be quids in :encouragement:

 

[MrCramp]

Surprised this debate is still running.

There will only ever be one "Forum Burgee" and that is the one that hlb facilitated. It crossed all boarders, I am a rage (ragie???) and I have bought three over the years.

Hayden in 20 years time those of us still kicking will remember you and the time and effort you put into our flag.

Whatever happens from now on is of no consequence.

I raise my glass of red in celebration of our burgee!!!!

 

[Searush]

I thought you were just a rather slow mobo most of the time?

Pete

Well I won't bother trying to sail SR into a 3kt current & headwind between the sandbanks of the Straits, but the Laser & GP14 don't have engines.

 

[jac]

I was only going on what Haydn said. And I did apologise if I'd misunderstood when he said that some people were refused

Refused may not have happened but I asked twice for one and couldn't get one as there was no stock and no plans to get more.

Whilst I applaud Henry's efforts here we are still reliant on Henry / other volunteers to lay out there own cash to carry stock that people here may or may not buy. It doesn't take much to see that in future when the current heat has died down the demand and enthusiasm will reduce and those that want one will not be able to get one. The beauty of the Liverpool flags was that no-one had any risk and those wanting one could order one and get it made to order. Yes it may be more expensive but 20 feet away from anyone seeing it, the quality is not an issue and it could turn up a few days later.

 

[hlb]

Surprised this debate is still running.

There will only ever be one "Forum Burgee" and that is the one that hlb facilitated. It crossed all boarders, I am a rage (ragie???) and I have bought three over the years.

Hayden in 20 years time those of us still kicking will remember you and the time and effort you put into our flag.

Whatever happens from now on is of no consequence.

I raise my glass of red in celebration of our burgee!!!!

Thank you. I was a bit shocked by folk slagging me off. Mainly from folk I have never heard of.

The purpose of the burgee supplier is to supply the burgee that the forum wishes. It is not his job to make a competing flag or alter the original one. The present offering is unacceptable. So Henry must produce the original. Not so difficult because I can give him the suppliers name and phone No.

The part I can no longer do, is collect the flags and post them, neither can I offer an on line payment method.

However, if Henry cannot toe the line and do what the vast majority of the forum wishes, I will reproduce the original and find some way to get them to you.

In all the years I have been here, this is the first time I've seen someone who wants to break some thing that is not broken. Even MBY recognises the flag and had a big one made for their stand at exhibitions.

I did not design the mouse, nor did I make the rules, I just followed them.

The rules are, that no itinerant forumite should have one. This was achieved by simply not advertising it so often, so only fairly regulars would know about it. Posting an SAE also meant that you could get off you're arse and join in. Just like in any charity you would probably start off making the tea.

The flag was designed by Boatone, the rules that we agreed on, were TCM's.

The forum can change any rules or design by majority, but not me or Henry.

 

[prv]

The present offering is unacceptable

Why is the present offering unacceptable?

Pete

 

[hlb]

Why is the present offering unacceptable?

Pete

Because it looks **** and nobody likes it, not just my opinion, it's made on the cheap and sold at a high price. No forum involvement, so it means nothing.

 

[henryf]

Refused may not have happened but I asked twice for one and couldn't get one as there was no stock and no plans to get more.

Whilst I applaud Henry's efforts here we are still reliant on Henry / other volunteers to lay out there own cash to carry stock that people here may or may not buy. It doesn't take much to see that in future when the current heat has died down the demand and enthusiasm will reduce and those that want one will not be able to get one.

My hope is to end up with a system which is self funding and doesn't require anyone to subsidise it. I also hope that by taking payments online much of the work is removed meaning anyone who has a business could provide flags with very little extra effort, most of the infrastructure will already be there.

Henry

 

[l'escargot]

Gosh, that's either really creepy or utterly insecure! I find it delightful when people recognise me on the boat. It always leads to a bit of a fun chinwag & sometimes a raid on the funbox. Surely someone as honest, open & upstanding as yourself has nothing to hide?

Neither creepy, insecure or anything to hide - just a natural caution towards some of the weirdos on the internet who aren't always what they seem - and also an aversion to some who clearly demonstrate that they are pratts and I'm not particularly interested in associating with them in the real world.

I stood in a bar yesterday and overheard a conversation where at least one person was from this forum. Nothing against him, I'm sure he's a perfectly pleasant chap, but I doubt if we have much in common so didn't really see the need to introduce myself.

 

[prv]

Because it looks ****

How do you know - you've never seen one!

and nobody likes it, not just my opinion

Thanks for the Burgee and all your efforts to arrange production and delivery. Very happy with the end product.

Phill.

Thanks Pete this has arrived in the post this morning.
I am away to Herm for the weekend so will fly it tonight.
Well impressed with the quality, Cheers for now.. Ian

I've just received my Burgee, looks great, Thanks Pete.

Just got mine, many thanks. Very nicely made

seeing a later photo and Henry's one up there, you can tell it's actually pretty decent. Whilst it's made in a different way to Haydn's burgees, the thicker design seems to make the image stand out better. I've always found I had to squint up at ours flying from the signal halyard to see the picture, and I have good eyesight!

I had one of prv s Forum Burgees.. The quality is very good, and I fly mine all the time..Always gets comments when moored up..[Good] That is!!!

I ordered the one from ensign flag, in the link earlier in the thread.

They are stitched and they have wooden toggles. Very nice burgees.

Does any body have a photo of the Ensign Flags offering?

Ah I think I've found one,

Looks pretty good to me.

I'd like to re-iterate my thanks to Pete for giving his time and finances to continue the availability of the burgee. Perhaps I'm not a connoisseur of needlework but it's as good as my owners' association burgee.

On PRVs version the artwork is exactly the same as the original burgee, the base colour is the same, the only major difference is the gold braided border, it is also properly rigged for a flag halyard.

My original HLB supplied burgee is now suffering from severe fatigue of the braid, a distressed end and has faded and cos of its construction does not fly terribly well, This in contrast to my Liverpool ensigns supplied ASA burgee which is showing no signs of distress and streams nicely.

+1. I bought one of Pete's and am very happy with it. I fly it on the Upper Thames with pride and am thankful that Pete made the effort to carry on what HLB started.

Petes Burgee : I am guessing B&C are the same Burgee, C just looks better than B. It looks fit for purpose, The graphic is nice and bold so it will be easier to see from a distance and looks to be more weather resistant. (read "Fit for purpose")

Nobody likes it, you say?

There have been some unfavourable comments, but most of them have been based on a single dodgy photo way back in this thread. To the best of my knowledge, nobody who has seen one in the flesh has been anything but positive.

it's made on the cheap and sold at a high price.

There's not much I can do about the sales price. I negotiated as hard as I could for the initial order - at one point the guy was going to refuse to make them after all because he thought I was taking the piss. I'm not sure what more you expect. Your guy was doing it at mate's rates from a dozen years ago, nobody's going to match that, and you told us all that that source was finished.

I don't think it's made on the cheap. It's constructed the same as any other traditionally sewn flag, and the mouse outline and all the bits in the martini glass means a lot of sewing. They're individual pieces of cloth sewn on, not just a design run through an automatic embroidery machine.

No forum involvement, so it means nothing.

How can it mean nothing when it's our well-loved symbol?

As far as I can see, the only additional forum involvement in yours was you stuffing envelopes. What magic is that supposed to add? I stuffed a couple of dozen envelopes for the first batch of the current ones, and I didn't detect any magic there.

Personally I think you're just being a grumpy old sod for the sake of it

Pete

 

[hlb]

My hope is to end up with a system which is self funding and doesn't require anyone to subsidise it. I also hope that by taking payments online much of the work is removed meaning anyone who has a business could provide flags with very little extra effort, most of the infrastructure will already be there.

Henry

So, you have arrived back at the system that was already there. I just put flags in a bag provided.

The area of difficulty is this, as this thread has shown, you go weeks and weeks with no one wanting one. Then some one makes a post. So you go from none wanted to maybe twenty or thirty in a moment or two.

It becomes impossible to find a stock level.

Henry, if you will stick by the normal rules of any club. The club makes the decisions. Not you or I.

The decision has overwhelmingly been made to retain the mouse, with no opposition.

Do this and I will help you, you do not have a remit to change it.

 

[hlb]

How do you know - you've never seen one!



























Nobody likes it, you say?

There have been some unfavourable comments, but most of them have been based on a single dodgy photo way back in this thread. To the best of my knowledge, nobody who has seen one in the flesh has been anything but positive.



There's not much I can do about the sales price. I negotiated as hard as I could for the initial order - at one point the guy was going to refuse to make them after all because he thought I was taking the piss. I'm not sure what more you expect. Your guy was doing it at mate's rates from a dozen years ago, nobody's going to match that, and you told us all that that source was finished.

I don't think it's made on the cheap. It's constructed the same as any other traditionally sewn flag, and the mouse outline and all the bits in the martini glass means a lot of sewing. They're individual pieces of cloth sewn on, not just a design run through an automatic embroidery machine.



How can it mean nothing when it's our well-loved symbol?

As far as I can see, the only additional forum involvement in yours was you stuffing envelopes. What magic is that supposed to add? I stuffed a couple of dozen envelopes for the first batch of the current ones, and I didn't detect any magic there.

Personally I think you're just being a grumpy old sod for the sake of it

Pete

Well if every one likes it, that's OK, I thought most folk didn't.

 

[hlb]

So for years and years, we have had a forum flag. Then Henry comes along and suddenly we don't have one. Or it is getting a competitor that nobody wants.

Competition is not needed on a forum, it is about what most folk want.

Henry you can voice your opinions, but you cannot choose the outcome. The mouse stays, with you or without you.

It seems that Henry will not follow normal rules'0.

 

[SLC]

Hlb

I am new here and know very little about forum history but I already know about the burgee and the history behind it(thanks to this thread)and those that were instrumental in it becoming so.

I understand from your posts that ill health has forced you onto the sidelines limiting your involvement and this cannot be easy after so many years at the helm.

From what I can gather prv has done quite a good job under the circumstances so does he really need criticism? Not in my book.

Maybe now is the time to take a back seat and let the members vote, they will vote with their wallets and I am sure the mouse will become as popular as ever, if not more so.

One reply summed it up when it was said 'long after you go you will be remembered for all your efforts re the burgee' or words to that effect, a pretty good legacy don't you think? Not many can match that.


Stuart.

 

[Cardo]

I'm in Greece - the world runs at a different pace here.

Plus mobile internet is at best sporadic

Where abouts are you? I'm going to guess "Sporades"!

No, early thirties

Henry

roflmao